Do you not read our posts? Some can and some cannot for reasons that have existed for 3000 years. They knew that. They did it anyway. Good luck with your political future Mr. Mayor. You better hope acupuncturists vote more than pissed off grandmothers.
It's definitely a hornet's nest of an issue, and I completely understand why. Banning religious ceremonies that can't be done except in person, even temporarily, is hard to square with the 1st Amendment.
Airlines have been operational this entire time, correct? That is way more of a confined space than any church I’ve ever been to. And the flights I’ve been on were only limited to ~2/3rds capacity (middle seats left open). Don’t know if that was a government imposed restriction or a voluntary decision by airlines.
The argument can be made that this is more of a necessity and that remote church services would take care of that necessity for the church. Not all passengers are traveling out of necessity, but some are. Those that are traveling for business purposes that cannot be dealt with remotely, or certain activities for legal reasons that cannot be handled remotely. I am not supporting these points, just pointing them out as the devil's advocate.
Cannot one ask why it is wrong to relegate church services to functioning remotely? Certain legal and business related functions need the person there more than a person needs to be at a church service, as opposed to watching it remotely. One cannot service a mechanical unit or install a system remotely. As opposed to one being able to get almost everything out of a church service remotely. Only some of the Sacramental Rites could have arguments made for being present.(Eucharist, Initiation/Confirmation, Baptism, Anointing of the sick, etc)
I am keeping the business functions separate from these conversations, but that is an issue. Just like an airline needs to function to meet costs, so does a church. And each business unit(am placing the church in there as well) has offshoots that stop other business units from functioning as well. For instance certain printing companies income is reduced because they do not print church bulletins/in house use of ink & paper. The airlines would have similar services and supply chain that would interrupt other business units. Things the church uses whether doing the service remotely or not, might be impacted with lesser offertory donations.
True, but regulating flight capacity also isn't something that the governors can control (except maybe for intrastate travel?) so using it as an example shouldn't really be considered when talking about the fairness of the state shutdowns vis a vis religion vs. secular businesses.
You know that last sentence speaks volumes , I think a lot of people forget that the “ Church” is not a building. The Church is the followers of Christ . You can have that anywhere, it seems like nowadays some people have wanted to turn it into a country club. Aston , I do not know what your beliefs are and that’s fine , but I understand why so many people get fed up with “ Christians “ . A lot of them have an attitude that they are better than other people and that’s not right. Being a Christian means you know you are not perfect but accept the Grace of God. If you wonder what Jesus would think of all of these “ mega churches “ I would suggest to look how he reacted to the people selling items at the Temple
I think he would flip some tables and break some things if he saw these churches. Same thing goes for the sheer amount of grandiose catholic cathedrals though.
(Gmoney, I do see your caveat in your last sentence, so don’t take this post personally as an attack against you!)
This is the problem with people who put religious belief above science and logic. Maybe that person’s business trip is to keep the electric grid that powers the respirators at the hospital going as well as a host of other things. There are absolutely essential workers with essential tasks that have a greater priority than 20 of the 1,000’s of church services you might attend in your life being canceled.
You hurt my feelings, and my grief overcame me you piece of shi*e. 😜
I’m not putting religious belief above science and logic (as if those were inherently at odds or mutually exclusive).
Firstly, science and logic are absolutely at odds with all major modern religions and it has been for centuries. The church dogma has lagged behind science for centuries. Celestial Astronomy, Biology, Evolution, Basic Health, etc... the church has failed to adopt observable and proof based conclusions for centuries. Heck there are still religions (Amish) that strive to ignore technological advancements.
What they strive to do is not let those technological advancements rule/control their lives. Otherwise they wouldn't use such things as batteries, or farm equipment, which they do. They let those technologies into their lives which they feel wouldn't cause them to be further from God and further from each other. If the entire world were Amish, then we wouldn't have the virus to deal with.
I don’t find honor in picking and choosing which technology you think HOF would be ok with you using. I just think it’s a bit presumptuous to believe that you know exactly how the world should operate in terms of what you should or shouldn’t utilize. Moreover the Amish aren’t the only sect that shuns scientific evidence. Go ask a Baptist Preacher in Broken Arrow how old the earth is. You should get a good laugh out of that.
I should have made it clear, and did not. I was posting this separately from the issue of meeting for church or not. You lambasted the Amish, and I made a separate point, but did not make that evident.
The Amish were just one example out of hundreds of Christian Protestant sects shunning scientific provable and explainable observation / prediction or certain modern innovations. (Though it’s not only Christians or Protestants that tend to do this) I have no vendetta against the Amish. I appreciate their dedication to detailed craftsmanship and their camaraderie in their community.
Im confused. Are you saying most christians dont believe in science and are that man in the story not accepting help from the boats? Because i believe youre wrong. The point is some people prefer to live their life rather than stay home. There is a risk inherant to living life. Some view this as another risk but they prefer to keep living. That's not my or your or the governments job to stop them from living their life. I personally, a christian who doesnt believe in macro evolution, believe god did give us brains to invent vaccines and medications and ct scans to solve our medical issues. There is reason to stay home and isolate, and protect ourselves and others from potential hospitalization. However, we are free. And freedom needs to be maintained.
Your first sentence is just so so wrong. Its incredibly ignorant. Educate yourself. Look up ravi zacharias. Science actual proves the existence of god if youd allow yourself
Yeah. No it’s not. Ask Galileo. Ask Darwin. Ask the folks that are saving themselves with vaccines made from research that used stem cell embryo’s.
I think you're living in the distant past. Heard of the Cambrian Explosion?
Oh you mean this science?
www.scientificamerican.com
Darwin was unaware of dna, amino acids, proteins, etc. I believe astons point was that modern day theists are too stupid to follow science and instead rely on god to save them from everything, i.e his man drowning story. I completely disagree.
In a review published by The Skeptics Society titled "Stephen Meyer's Fumbling Bumbling Amateur Cambrian Follies",[61] paleontologist Donald Prothero gave a highly negative review of Meyer's book. Prothero pointed out that the "Cambrian Explosion" concept itself has been deemed an outdated concept after recent decades of fossil discovery and he points out that 'Cambrian diversification' is a more consensual term now used in paleontology to describe the 80 million-year time frame where the fossil record shows the gradual and stepwise evolution of more and more complicated animal life. Prothero criticizes Meyer for ignoring much of the fossil record and instead focusing on a later stage to give the impression that all Cambrian life forms appeared abruptly without predecessors. In contrast, Prothero cites paleontologist B.S. Lieberman that the rates of evolution during the 'Cambrian explosion' were typical of any adaptive radiation in life's history. He quotes another prominent paleontologist Andrew Knoll that '20 million years is a long time for organisms that produce a new generation every year or two' without the need to invoke any unknown processes. Going through a list of topics in modern evolutionary biology Meyer used to bolster his idea in the book, Prothero asserts that Meyer, not a paleontologist nor a molecular biologist, does not understand these scientific disciplines, therefore he misinterprets, distorts and confuses the data, all for the purpose of promoting the 'God of the gaps' argument: 'anything that is currently not easily explained by science is automatically attributed to supernatural causes', i.e. intelligent design.
You post pseudoscience that ignores actual science and clearly make my point. They allow their faith to drive their search for answers rather than actual reason, logic, and scientific modeling. They look for answers that will agree with their religious pretext rather than actual observations regarding what is happening or what has happened. Hence, the man drowning. He ignores reality because he wants something that will match his pretext of faith.
No issues at all from me on the structure of your argument. It’s logical and is a good rebuttal. Im my opinion, only when we get full disclosure from the Vatican, can we be 100% accurate in our assessment.
