I think the latter part is valid. There's a reason why Mike Gundy hired an OC and lets them call the plays. Gundy is a much better HC because of it.
The big question
- Thread starter TULSARISING
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For reference, Kragthorpe's 2nd season was 5-7 before he was hired to Louisville and TG had that rough 5-7 year before his last 10-3 season.
Still rough for fans to see a coach go 6-7 10-3, 2-10, 3-9 and then (best possible case) 5-7... Still would be an improvement, but not much. Hey, it's trending upwards since 2017!
I know this fan base expects 8+ wins, but will be rough to hit that without 4-0 OOC each year. Next year OOC will be tough but realistic to go 3-1 (Tough ones are OSU and Toledo, a decent G5 team TU should beat like Wyoming this year). If Zack Smith becomes a top-notch TU QB we're used to seeing and the o-line can get sorted out, maybe TU can step and stabilize up as other AAC HCs (likely) get poached in the off-season (Norvell, Dykes, Strong, Heupel, Fickell & Fritz all mentioned as prime candidates recently). So maybe the curve ball could be that stability might actually help TU be more competitive next year. Who knows if Holgerson will actually be a good fit at UH (looks bad so far, "tanking" and potentially losing star QB).
Still rough for fans to see a coach go 6-7 10-3, 2-10, 3-9 and then (best possible case) 5-7... Still would be an improvement, but not much. Hey, it's trending upwards since 2017!
I know this fan base expects 8+ wins, but will be rough to hit that without 4-0 OOC each year. Next year OOC will be tough but realistic to go 3-1 (Tough ones are OSU and Toledo, a decent G5 team TU should beat like Wyoming this year). If Zack Smith becomes a top-notch TU QB we're used to seeing and the o-line can get sorted out, maybe TU can step and stabilize up as other AAC HCs (likely) get poached in the off-season (Norvell, Dykes, Strong, Heupel, Fickell & Fritz all mentioned as prime candidates recently). So maybe the curve ball could be that stability might actually help TU be more competitive next year. Who knows if Holgerson will actually be a good fit at UH (looks bad so far, "tanking" and potentially losing star QB).
Norvell and Fickell are the two most likely to leave. Not sure Heupel is going anywhere until he can prove he can develop a QB. Strong is not going anywhere from USF. I think Dykes is a good coach but I think many schools will wait to see if he can replicate the success of this season.
I think Norvell would be crazy to move to Arkansas and most people in Arkansas think he's the next coach guaranteed. Why do I think he'd be crazy to leave Memphis? He has a much better opportunity of still having a job in 3-4 years at Memphis than he does at Arkansas. Arkansas is not coming close to finishing higher than 4th in the SEC West for at least 4 years and they're more likely to finish 6th or 7th than higher than that. He's got a better chance of a NY6 bowl than Arkansas has EVER. He has a much better chance of getting to the CFP at Memphis than he does at Arkansas. What good is a $2.5M per year contract if you need to look for a new job in 3 years and no one will hire you because you went 10-26 at a place with near unlimited resources devoted to football?
Fickell- any bets he is the next USC coach if they can't lure Meyer out of "retirement"?
I wouldn't be surprised either. I think Malzahn goes to Arkansas and the Auburn job opens up as well. That's a possibility for Norvell.
The reason I say Fickell is the new USC AD just left Cincinnati to become the AD at USC. The entire UC athletic dept. will have moved to LA in the last 8 months.
All depends on Urban Meyer though.
Prediction: Neither Malzahn or Norvell will be the HC at Arkansas next year because they're both smart people. That job is going to be known as the place where head coaches go to have their careers die. I think Nebraska will be a similar situation after they get rid of Frost.
I'm betting TUDawg already knew you were referring to that because of ad move from Cincy to USC. Not giving Frost much time to turn it around at Nebraska. Weren't you just referring to that about Morris at Arkansas. Maybe that was somebody('s) else, too lazy to look.
I don't think either is being given enough time given the situations they took over. Granted, Frost took over a better situation and made it absolutely terrible. Pellini didn't exactly leave the cupboards bare there.
But 1.5 years in Arkansas for Morris who completely flipped a system from Bielema's B1G grind it out running offense to Morris' run n gun offense is not nearly enough. Pretty much every position on the offense needed to be 100% over hauled to make that switch. (Don't get me wrong, I never though Morris was going to be successful at Arkansas...I think the days of Arkansas being relevant in college football are long gone).
I will say I thought Frost was going to do a good job at Nebraska...I was wrong on that and I don't see it turning around. He'll get one more year because he's a beloved former Husker.
Definitely agree with you wholeheartedly on Morris.
I think Frost might get it turned around at Nebraska if given enough time. But that would be 2 or 3 years. You are probably correct in assessing what Nebraska will only give him 1 year more.
Malzahn may not have much of a choice. It sounds like Arkansas might be the best landing spot for him depending on what opens up. I don't think anyone would argue that coaches would want the Tulsa job before they wanted the Arkansas job. The amount of money you'd be leaving on the table alone is just ludicrous.
I'd be shocked if Malzahn wants anywhere near Fayetteville. And he's getting shafted at Auburn. He has a really good team this year and it just so happens that Bama is really good and LSU is outstanding. Hell, most NFL divisions don't have that much talent in them.
He’s kinda in the position Bielema was when he left Wisconsin to go to Fayettnam. We all know how that story is progressing.
I thought this was a new housewares store.
Bielema's replacement, forget the name, left there for Oregon State iirc. He might be the coach at Utah St. Wisconsin must be a difficult place to be a coach.
Wait, I thought Paul Chryst was Bielema's replacement at Wisconsin and he's been doing pretty well. Chryst was Graham's replacement at Pitt.
I wonder if working for Barry Alvarez and perhaps constantly getting 2nd guessed by him makes it a tough environment.
“As far as Chad Morris, there’s no reason to pile on,” Finebaum said. “ I think the record is self-evident as far as what kind of coach he was. As far as Gus Malzahn, I think he has to consider it. Regardless of this weekend or two weekends from now, we all know the circumstances at Auburn. It’s just a never-ending soap opera. There are people who genuinely love Gus Malzahn and appreciate him. There’s an equal number who don’t. I don’t think that’s going to change.
“To me, he gambled two years ago. He made a lot of money. Now I would leave. I don’t think it’s a difficult decision for Gus. I would take the money. We’ve all covered transitions. You’re taking over for Chad Morris, who has one of the worst records, one of the most inept, incompetent and laughable programs I have ever seen in the history of covering the SEC.”
“To me, he gambled two years ago. He made a lot of money. Now I would leave. I don’t think it’s a difficult decision for Gus. I would take the money. We’ve all covered transitions. You’re taking over for Chad Morris, who has one of the worst records, one of the most inept, incompetent and laughable programs I have ever seen in the history of covering the SEC.”
If I remember correctly, he had taken his Wisconsin teams to 3 straight Rose Bowls but lost all 3.
When you look up Bielema...apparently he was unhappy with Wisconsin about his assistants' pay. Arkansas was just a really weird place for him to go as I'm not sure anyone could say it ever seemed like he was a good fit there. He went to Iowa and jumped into coaching at Iowa, KState and Wisconsin.
Funny story I found in trying to learn a little bit more...apparently after his last game vs Iowa State as an Iowa DL, he went to the Iowa State coach and told him "You're a big prick. I enjoyed kicking your a$$ the last 5 years". Hilarious. I'd love to hear more stories like this.
His name is Gary Anderson. Coached there in 2013-2014. Had a 19-7 record. Chryst was his replacement. Anderson previously coached at Utah St. before going to Wisconsin. He is back at Utah St. replacing Matt Wells. Had to do the research.
I'm still thinking being the HC at Wisconsin and working for the guy who virtually everything in the program is named after has to be difficult. Sort of like any coach working at Arkansas trying to work for Frank Broyles.
After Pelini, Mike Riley was there almost 4 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nebraska_Cornhuskers_head_football_coaches
It's an extremely rough job at NU. They expect NC's, but are in a rough location with few in-state or even surrounding blue chip recruits, they play in an ice cold area with very little redeeming qualities besides being really really rough (It makes Oklahoma weather look like paradise). You can't just go out and out-train/out-steroid other teams any more like they used to (along with many other blue bloods at the time) and so you have to land elite talent to get to the level NU fans expect. Kids see TV and they see trendy uniforms, flashy offenses and all the jokes/brags on social media (where NU is not going to be on the good side). They don't know of NU ever being good and most probably don't even remember or know who Scott Frost was as a successful HC. NU was historically great, but not in this millenium. Just a few Big 12 runner ups to OU.
NU is this weird team that suddenly joined the Big Ten, despite their rivals, and plays those teams and so they'll potentially get recruits from those areas, but they lose to those teams and have for most recent past (They have effectively zero "brand" in Big Ten except being an under-performer vs hype). Their best sell to elite recruits is that you can potentially play early and train to get drafted. And maybe NU will compete to get to the Big Ten CCG someday where Ohio State will crush them, but probably not because Iowa and Wisconsin almost always beat them (and now Minnesota who landed the real "Scott Frost" in PJ Fleck).
My timelines as to who was where when is really messed up.
Nebraska's move was the one that touched off the destruction of the Big XII. It was also a HUGE mistake for Nebraska in terms of recruiting. While the marginally fit in regionally with the B1G, there's no identity. Their annual game with Colorado was always huge. Their annual game with OU was one of those Friday after Thanksgiving traditions. Add to it the bad blood they had playing Kansas and Mizzou. And this is where schools will really need to take a hard look at what they want when it comes to any next round of realignment. Look at all the schools in that 1st round- Nebraska, Mizzou, Colorado, Utah. Only one of them is in a better place competitively than they were before moving...and that's Utah. Colorado is terrible. Nebraska is terrible and Mizzou is terrible. Between the 3 of them they've sniffed what- 2 conference championships combined since it all went down. Nebraska played in the 2012 B1G Championship game and lost 70-31 to Wisconsin. Colorado played in 1 Pac 12 championship game and lost by 31. Mizzou has played in 2 SEC Championship games and lost both. Mizzou lost to Vanderbilt this season. Outside of a miracle, Nebraska isn't going to make a bowl game this season. Colorado will also need a giant miracle to make a bowl game this year. IDK, maybe this is what those schools wanted.
I agree. The old Big 12 was much better and now it is even better for OU/Texas at least, but not as interesting to watch as when Nebraska was in it and you had more relevant regional rivalries with all the teams playing including Mizzou and A&M.
NU could recruit Mizzou, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas and play those sensible, sometimes legendary, rivalries. Now they play places that have more competition for fewer recruits, where NU might be the 6th to 10th rung vs OsU, UM, UW, UC, ND, MSU etc.
More importantly, the southern half of the US (and Texas especially) have become the real hot bed for innovative offenses and more often produce the kind of QBs who can dominate in this era (Baker Mayfield, K Murray, Mahomes, Chase Daniel of Mizzou, RG3). Leaving a league where you mostly play the top Texas schools is a bad decision.
https://www.gosanangelo.com/story/s...s-qb-quarterback-capital-nfl-2019/1618871001/
Why give any head coach a contract longer than 3 years?
Monty is strutting around like he's coaching a season winning team after the escape against UCF. The guy is NOT a dynasty builder... I noticed that neither the replay summaries nor the coaching show mentioned the fact that we won the game due to a failed 4th down play call on a flag thanks to Boomer's football awareness.
I thought we already covered this ridiculous talking point.
Not many... Francis "close the gates of mercy" Schmidt, Henry Frnka, Glenn Dobbs, F.A. Dry, John Cooper
Wouldn't call it ridiculous since the win hinged on Boomer hurrying the snap to catch them with 12. If he hadn't made that decision, would've been a turnover on downs.
Or they would have audibled to a pitch to the right. See I can make guesses about things that didn’t happen either. It doesn’t matter what happened after the snap of the ball because the play became a success the moment the snap happened.
You don't know that. And if our coach is bad, what does that make UCF coaches? They're the ones who made the really late decision to swap out players when both teams were lined up for the snap already. I am not convinced Monty is going to build a consistent winner, but he made the right decisions to get us to a win on Friday. And he didn't dumb down or narrow the playbook when we had to go to Boomer in the 2nd half. That would have been really easy for Monty to do.
Good points. UCF was out-coached and out-played, however close it was.
I'd think Boomer has full knowledge of the playbook by now. He might not be as capable as Zack Smith, but shouldn't he have enough experience at this point to be able to run the offense pretty close? It certainly looked like he was running it well Saturday.
Unfortunately the market dictates these crazy contracts and buyouts. FSU had to pay their latest fire $17 MILLION! TU (and anyone else) had no idea what would happen the next 3 years. After 2016, Montgomery likely would've been hired away without at least a decent boost and extension of his contract. And we all would've been angry and TU would just be paying even more for an even more unknown.
Universities know how important it is to be good at football and the windfall of revenue (and applications) that comes with that. I bet the ROI isn't good for most FBS programs (as the vast majority lose money on it), but maybe the boost in applications for any decent season is enough to make up for losing so much revenue? Once you have decent facilities on par with your peers, the HC is the single biggest factor in determining if the program will be competitive.
Absolutely agree he looked like he was in full command and he threw the ball accurately. I do think Monty may have stayed away from some of the WR screen passes that call for a stronger arm/quicker delivery but that's all.
I thought Monty's game plan of using some wildcat and especially using Stokes in a 2 RB set was brilliant. It really kept UCF off balance and showed them a look we haven't shown.
It says they (UCF coaches) watch game film and see the same thing the rest of us do at every home game. Our offense waiting to set up and look at the sideline so the defense has plenty of time to change, adjust, and set up.
Through out the year defenses have been milling around and getting set well before we try and snap the ball despite us being in formation. That is a major difference between Monty and Gus, who never missed the chance to take advantage of a defensive team not being ready, or jumping offsides.
The only time we go fast is after a big play, its remarkable how well we do in the hurry up set snap version, its starkly different then when we run the set stare at the sideline snap the ball with 2 seconds left on the play clock version.
Boomer is the first QB who didn't even bother to look at the side line, as soon as he saw the late sub he clapped. That's on Boomer, not the coach. It's clearly not something that has happened during the season.
Yeah, that was coming out of a timeout though that UCF called. We obviously ran someone out there they didn't expect in that situation. TBH, I haven't watched the game back to see who we had on the field to know what UCF saw that they felt they needed x player vs y player on the field.
I've been looking for it. Hasn't materialized on YouTube yet. Would love to see it again from start to finish.
My DVR didn't catch it. I extend an extra 30 minutes on all live football broadcasts just because ESPN has made games last too long. The recording ended after the Green tipping the ball away on UCFs 4th down. My wife went and saw the last series on the ESPN on demand entry of the game. I was at the game and UCF coaches pushed the player onto the field and they started frantically waving their arms. The DE/LB who came off sprinted but only got to the top of the numbers when Boomer snapped the ball. And it was so obvious because of the UCF coaches antics imploring the player to go faster. That's not on either of the players..it was 100% on the coaches. And Boomer made a smart play asking for the snap w/o the check with me.
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