Should TU continue to schedule OSU on a 2 for 1 basis?

[Tuloma]

Football is big business and in business you keep score with dollars. So lets look at it from a business stand point.

Since TU downsized Chapman Stadium to a total of 25,193 seats (that includes Suites, Club and box seats) the economics of playing OSU have changed. Tickets prices for the game have increased drastically to help offset the reduced seating.. But is it still economically a good decision?

I will be using estimated and rounded numbers in this discussion, but they will suffice for discussion purposes. Also, I will look at three different scenarios:

No. 1 -- A 2 for 1 series with OSU
No. 2 -- Three one and done games (for the same period of time)
No. 3 -- A series of home and home games.

All universities give away a certain number of tickets. (Players complimentary tickets, visiting recruits etc.) For our purposes I will estimate that TU can sell a maximum of 24,000 tickets. Now for the numbers.

Scenario No. 1

A 2 for 1 series with OSU

24,000 times $95 = $2,280,000
Additional mini-pack and season ticket sales = $220,000.
Total income = $2,500,000

ESTIMATED EXPENSES:

Visiting team payment = $300,000

TOTAL NET INCOME = $2,200,000

That is total income for a 3 year period. 3 games with 2 in Stillwater where OSU keeps all of the receipts.

Scenario No. 2

Three one and done games each paying TU $1,300,000. Subtract travel expenses of $300,000 for each game, leaves a Total Net Income of $3,000,000 over a three year period.

Scenario No. 3

Home and home games. 20,000 fans times $30 per average ticket = $600,000 minus visiting team's travel expenses leaves maybe $500,000 income per home game. (See note below)

So to recap:

2 for 1 series with OSU = $2,200,000 income for a period of three years.
One and done games = $3,000,000 income for the same three year period.
Home and home games = $1,800,000 for the same three year period

The home and home numbers may be underestimated, because of the unknown amount of revenue received from the suites and club seat ticket sales for an additional game.

None of this factors in television, publicity or other perceived benefits.
Draw your own conclusions.

 

[TULSARISING]

IMO, we need to keep scheduling them with a 2-1 deal. This rivalry is good for the state of Oklahoma and gives TU more exposure. Yes, last Thursday was a hard pill to swallow, but this was their dream team against a rebuilding TU team. There are going to be years that we can beat them which will give TU a name and get us more fans. Better to play them then OU Imo because OSU is more likely to have years that we can beat them. We have already scheduled a ton of games where we will make a wealthy paycheck. We need this one to get respect in our state.

 

[bluegold70]

NO MORE OSEWE GAMES!!!

 

[lawpoke87]

You're going to have to pay someone to come here in order to even out the home schedule if you do a lot of take the money and run games. Is the $300k visitor take on the OSU games accurate? Number seems low. No idea about TV money either. I don't think TU wants to be that school who plays a body bag game every year.

 

[Tuloma]

Agree about having to pay someone to come here to balance out the schedule on body bag games. The $300,000 was the norm, but it may have changed. There has been talk that OSU gets double the visiting team money that TU gets, since they are the visiting team once while TU is the visiting team twice. In other words OSU gets $600,000 when it is the visiting team and TU gets $300,000 when it is the visiting team, to balance the total amount each team receives.

That would make the OSU series economically more in line with home and home games revenue. Maybe even less than home and home games, because of the unknown amount of revenue from the suites and club seats.

 

[TU Sepp]

No where have you included concessions. That has to be a decent amount of change. I would rather do a 1 - 1 with KU and Iowa St. as both programs could easily travel to Tulsa. Maybe we could even add a TTech or Baylor to the mix. If the aggies want a footprint in Tulsa then it should be 1 - 1...

 

[cableok]

So to recap:

2 for 1 series with OSU = $2,200,000 income for a period of three years.
One and done games = $3,000,000 income for the same three year period.
Home and home games = $1,800,000 for the same three year period

The home and home numbers may be underestimated, because of the unknown amount of revenue received from the suites and club seat ticket sales for an additional game.
.

TU received $400K for the Thur game (according to USA Today). So need to add nearly $800k to first scenario. Can't imagine one day travel costs are very much.

I hope they continue 2 for 1. I think it is good for both teams. And I like close away games.

 

[lawpoke87]

KU has said no

Iowa state recently had a home and home with us. Don't look for a repeat at least for awhile.

Tech won't give us the time of day.

Baylor...no idea. They rarely play OOC outside of Texas.

The Big12 only plays 3 OOC games now. A home and home would be a stretch imo.

 

[drboobay]

I like a 2 for one with ou and osu every decade or 15 years. Mix it up and keep the relationship alive.

Too many one and done money games for us though. I get the budget reasons but hope we can turn the corner and get past those games.

 

[HuffyCane]

The bottom feeders, OSU included, of the Big 12 are not going to do a home and home with TU. When they get beat by us, they have to go into conference meetings and explain why they got beat. The financial benefit is a convenient excuse. Take that away, and they have no incentive to play. That's why Ive always said the mixed approach that we have been using works. Continue the 2-1 with OU. 3-2 with OSU using basketball revenue to balance the books a little closer and schedule some rando every third year like Minnesota or Illinois. I don't understand why BYU or Air Force isn't on the schedule more personally. Those seems like natural opponents that would be wiling to come here, get beat, and be happy with the check, but still have some prestige to the matchup.

 

[TU Pilot]

The bottom feeders, OSU included, of the Big 12 are not going to do a home and home with TU. When they get beat by us, they have to go into conference meetings and explain why they got beat. The financial benefit is a convenient excuse. Take that away, and they have no incentive to play. That's why Ive always said the mixed approach that we have been using works. Continue the 2-1 with OU. 3-2 with OSU using basketball revenue to balance the books a little closer and schedule some rando every third year like Minnesota or Illinois. I don't understand why BYU or Air Force isn't on the schedule more personally. Those seems like natural opponents that would be wiling to come here, get beat, and be happy with the check, but still have some prestige to the matchup.

We should definitely schedule Air Force every year from now until eternity... Would love watching those academy pukes get stomped into the ground annually by TU.

 

[TU Sepp]

TU received $400K for the Thur game (according to USA Today). So need to add nearly $800k to first scenario. Can't imagine one day travel costs are very much.

I hope they continue 2 for 1. I think it is good for both teams. And I like close away games.

$300K for each game is already figured, so that would be an extra $200K...

 

[goldenhurricane2]

Lots of "ifs" and "buts" here. Also a lot of assumed facts...

I'm not saying that our deals with OSU (or anyone lately) have been awesome, but I think we're in a tough spot. No middling big12, SEC, or ACC team wants to schedule a home and home and potentially lose both. So I'm not sure if scheduling OSU is so much of a want (it is a want in many realms) but also a need.

 

[cableok]

$300K for each game is already figured, so that would be an extra $200K...

Reading the OP's calculation for scenario #1, the payment to the opponent is factored and subtracted. But the payments to TU were not added in.

 

[Tuloma]

IMO, we need to keep scheduling them with a 2-1 deal. This rivalry is good for the state of Oklahoma and gives TU more exposure. Yes, last Thursday was a hard pill to swallow, but this was their dream team against a rebuilding TU team. There are going to be years that we can beat them which will give TU a name and get us more fans. Better to play them then OU Imo because OSU is more likely to have years that we can beat them. We have already scheduled a ton of games where we will make a wealthy paycheck. We need this one to get respect in our state.

I understand your thought process, but TU has not defeated OSU at Tulsa in 20 years and it has been 65 years since TU won a game at Stillwater.

The resources OSU has as a P5 school, plus Boone Pickens money is going to be hard to overcome going forward.

 

[Tuloma]

No where have you included concessions. That has to be a decent amount of change. I would rather do a 1 - 1 with KU and Iowa St. as both programs could easily travel to Tulsa. Maybe we could even add a TTech or Baylor to the mix. If the aggies want a footprint in Tulsa then it should be 1 - 1...

Good point. I considered including program sales and concessions, but didn't because it seems for comparison purposes it would only apply when TU plays one and done games......then the concessions would be lost.

 

[Tuloma]

Reading the OP's calculation for scenario #1, the payment to the opponent is factored and subtracted. But the payments to TU were not added in.

Correct, visiting team payments to TU were not factored in. Scenario No. 1 was revenue for TU playing OSU at home. So if (OSU) received $400,000 TU's revenue would be reduced by $100,000 for that game. However, TU would receive more money when playing at OSU.

 

[astonmartin708]

I say, go for 1 P5 home game a season. If you scheduled three P5's to 2 for 1's that could be achieved.

 

[noble cane]

You're going to have to pay someone to come here in order to even out the home schedule if you do a lot of take the money and run games. Is the $300k visitor take on the OSU games accurate? Number seems low. No idea about TV money either. I don't think TU wants to be that school who plays a body bag game every year.

Last I heard we pay OSU for one game what they pay us for 3.

Personally I would like to see the series end. Media attention is focused all on OSU. We get 2 pages and 15 seconds of local air time no matter the opponent.

 

[TULSARISING]

I understand your thought process, but TU has not defeated OSU at Tulsa in 20 years and it has been 65 years since TU won a game at Stillwater.

The resources OSU has as a P5 school, plus Boone Pickens money is going to be hard to overcome going forward.

I understand that as well, but the difference is narrowing. Yes we are rebuilding this year, but think if this game had been played last year. Very good chance TU wins. In the near future we will be back to a dominating offense like we were. Then we will have a real shot at beating them. We just happened to play them when they had one of their great seasons. They will have years we can beat them, but for that to happen, we need to play them more then once every 6 years. Play them at least every other year.

 

[Big Body]

From an outsiders perspective, Tulsa is a bad school to schedule a series with as a P5 school. I think nationally Tulsa doesn't have the respect as Houston, South Florida, Boise St etc. But Tulsa is still a team that can easily come in and win a game (home or away), and is probably not too far off from those other programs listed in terms of quality year after year.

So as the opponent it's kind of a lose lose. You don't get much credit for a win, yet you're putting yourself into a position where you might lose.

I think it makes sense for OSU, given the in state relationship. But anyone outside of Oklahoma, if I were in their shoes I wouldn't schedule Tulsa.

 

[TulsaGrad07]

Does our stadium only seat 25k?
I thought it was 30k

 

[goldenhurricane2]

Does our stadium only seat 25k?
I thought it was 30k

That's up for debate. I've heard the 25k number mentioned above, 27k is sometimes thrown around, and then the official seating capacity is listed at 30k.

 

[JesseTU]

OSU @ Tulsa September 14, 2019
Tulsa @ OSU Sept. 12, 2020
Tulsa @ OSU Sept. 11, 2021

I was unable to find terms, but I would think they are public somewhere or discoverable with a FOIA.
http://www.news9.com/story/26144441/osu-tu-sign-football-basketball-contract

I don't mind the series. If OSU falls back to form, its a good match up. The last ~8 or 9 years, not so much in our favor. But still decent game.

If we dropped OSU, I would be in favor of finding a Kansas, Minnesota, Purdue, or the like to stand in. Even Texas Tech. Someone who beating them has a little meaning to it. Many years a win against [insert non P5 team here] would be more difficult, but utterly discounted by the polls.

 

[TU1NNJ]

That's up for debate. I've heard the 25k number mentioned above, 27k is sometimes thrown around, and then the official seating capacity is listed at 30k.

I heard Bubba say 27,000 plus seats in the stadium, but with the private suites in the press box; Lettermen's suite, AD suite and Visitors suite in the endzone it gets it to 30,000.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

I heard Bubba say 27,000 plus seats in the stadium, but with the private suites in the press box; Lettermen's suite, AD suite and Visitors suite in the endzone it gets it to 30,000.

That was my understanding as well. However there's some smu asshole on the aac board that swears he has inside info about TU and that our stadium (including suites) is only a little over 27k. When I inquired as to how he knew this information, he gave me some bs response talking down about TU.

 

[noble cane]

That was my understanding as well. However there's some smu asshole on the aac board that swears he has inside info about TU and that our stadium (including suites) is only a little over 27k. When I inquired as to how he knew this information, he gave me some bs response talking down about TU.

At least we would qualify as the largest high school stadium in Texas...

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/dfwvarsity/prep-football/article170468092.html

 

[goldenhurricane2]

At least we would qualify as the largest high school stadium in Texas...

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/dfwvarsity/prep-football/article170468092.html

I have mixed feelings on the matter... I can see both sides of the argument on stadium capacity. However, at the end of the day, TU has to find a way get people to the games no matter what the size of the stadium is.

 

[Tuloma]

Does our stadium only seat 25k?
I thought it was 30k

The 25,193 is correct. That includes suites, club seats, box seats, even ADA seats. How do I know that? I counted them.

It is easy to do. Especially if you get a friend to help you. Just go to the ticket website and choose a game with lots of ticket left for sale. Move the cursor over the highest seat number in each row. Call out the number to a friend and record it on paper or in a calculator. It only takes about 5 minutes or less to do a section. Counting the box seats can get a little tricky.

If you are going to do it, I suggest you start with the end zone to get the hang of it. Some sections have the same number of seats in virtually all of the rows. So you only have to multiply the number of rows by the number of seats in any given row.

BTW if you do count them there are 570 seats in the suites and 420 club seats that are not on the charts. I had to call the ticket office for those numbers.

The only possible standing room in Chapman would be the NE corners next to the Case Center. In a pinch, they might hold 300-400 people.
Also, the Case Center might house 100-200. So in an emergency you might squeeze 25,500 into the entire stadium.

All in all, this is a perfect stadium for TU. Beautiful and fan friendly. (Except for the concessions). Personally, I love attending games there.

Anyway, I am retired and have no hobbies, so I spend a lot of time on the computer and I am a numbers junkie that enjoys crunching numbers. However, guys like me are not happy unless the numbers are correct.

 

[TulsaGrad07]

The 25,193 is correct. That includes suites, club seats, box seats, even ADA seats. How do I know that? I counted them.

It is easy to do. Especially if you get a friend to help you. Just go to the ticket website and choose a game with lots of ticket left for sale. Move the cursor over the highest seat number in each row. Call out the number to a friend and record it on paper or in a calculator. It only takes about 5 minutes or less to do a section. Counting the box seats can get a little tricky.

If you are going to do it, I suggest you start with the end zone to get the hang of it. Some sections have the same number of seats in virtually all of the rows. So you only have to multiply the number of rows by the number of seats in any given row.

BTW if you do count them there are 570 seats in the suites and 420 club seats that are not on the charts. I had to call the ticket office for those numbers.

The only possible standing room in Chapman would be the NE corners next to the Case Center. In a pinch, they might hold 300-400 people.
Also, the Case Center might house 100-200. So in an emergency you might squeeze 25,500 into the entire stadium.

All in all, this is a perfect stadium for TU. Beautiful and fan friendly. (Except for the concessions). Personally, I love attending games there.

Anyway, I am retired and have no hobbies, so I spend a lot of time on the computer and I am a numbers junkie that enjoys crunching numbers. However, guys like me are not happy unless the numbers are correct.

I'll take your word for it chief. I'd like to see 25k butts in those seats on Saturdays. Last time I saw it remotely close to full (besides the predictable home games against OU and OSU) was when we played Houston at home a few years back in CUSA and they smoked us and brought at least 2k of their own fans to the game. The CUSA championship game against UCF wasn't even 20k. I've seen a LOT more adds on social media these days for Tulsa. So hopefully the university has some marketing successes with their new approach. We've got the smallest stadium in the American and the smallest undergrad enrollment in FBS. The deck is stacked against us, but I still say we play against Oklahoma State and Oklahoma and Arkansas and any other program with bigger stadiums and attendance than we do until we start turning some heads.

 

[noble cane]

The 25,193 is correct. That includes suites, club seats, box seats, even ADA seats. How do I know that? I counted them.

It is easy to do. Especially if you get a friend to help you. Just go to the ticket website and choose a game with lots of ticket left for sale. Move the cursor over the highest seat number in each row. Call out the number to a friend and record it on paper or in a calculator. It only takes about 5 minutes or less to do a section. Counting the box seats can get a little tricky.

If you are going to do it, I suggest you start with the end zone to get the hang of it. Some sections have the same number of seats in virtually all of the rows. So you only have to multiply the number of rows by the number of seats in any given row.

BTW if you do count them there are 570 seats in the suites and 420 club seats that are not on the charts. I had to call the ticket office for those numbers.

The only possible standing room in Chapman would be the NE corners next to the Case Center. In a pinch, they might hold 300-400 people.
Also, the Case Center might house 100-200. So in an emergency you might squeeze 25,500 into the entire stadium.

All in all, this is a perfect stadium for TU. Beautiful and fan friendly. (Except for the concessions). Personally, I love attending games there.

Anyway, I am retired and have no hobbies, so I spend a lot of time on the computer and I am a numbers junkie that enjoys crunching numbers. However, guys like me are not happy unless the numbers are correct.

You are one really anal Aggie.

 

[nevadanatural]

Anal Aggie, wasn't that a 70s porn star?

 

[noble cane]

Anal Aggie, wasn't that a 70s porn star?

It was T Boones stage name.