Protests?

[astonmartin708]

I would suggest many of the same solutions I have talked endlessly about in this board for this group of people as I’ve mentioned for those living in our inner cities. Education, cultural changes, etc. There is more in common with those who feel disenfranchised than most realized regardless of skin color, address, etc.

The problem is, they’re not disenfranchised. As them not being accosted or arrested yesterday proves, they are treated differently in our society. They aren’t all from inner cities where they don’t have educational or economic opportunities. Many are from suburbs. Sure, some of them are having trouble in a changing economy that’s leaving them behind but that’s not something simple to fix. Cultural changes are certainly necessary... but those changes are being pushed farther and farther off when we not only allow what happened yesterday to happen but also our leaders promote it.

 

[lawpoke87]

I didn’t say the are disenfranchised I said they feel disenfranchised. This is where education is important. Which I brought up because you characterized them as low educated.

Cultural changes are difficult for both of these groups as the people they are currently listening to preach the exact opposite of what they need to hear. Not sure how we change the narrative. These people took a big hit yesterday as far as support from what I call mainstream old Pubs. The Dubya people. Hopefully they are done as a movement

 

[lawpoke87]

I characterize them as lowly educated for a different reason than I do urban folks. In Urban areas it’s largely because education is underfunded or under-emphasized. For a lot of the people that were around the capitol it wasn’t because it was unavailable or underemphasized but because they weren’t typically of the caliber or the determination to pursue it.

Many poor rural areas suffer the same challenges. Education is underfunded and underemphasized. People live in trailers instead of public housing. Drugs like meth are a huge problem. There’s more in common with these two demographics than people realize.

 

[URedskin54]

As them not being accosted or arrested yesterday proves, they are treated differently in our society.

I keep seeing people say this but it just isn’t true. An unarmed woman was shot and killed by police (deservedly in my opinion) and three others died in “medical events” that may have been brought on by physical altercations with police.

 

[lawpoke87]

Over 50 people were arrested yesterday and as we know an unarmed woman was shot and killed. Not sure where this narrative is coming from.

 

[astonmartin708]

Over 50 people were arrested yesterday and as we know an unarmed woman was shot and killed. Not sure where this narrative is coming from.

It’s not a “narrative” it’s an objective fact. More people were arrested and injured outside the whitehouse during a much more peaceful protest which didn’t include storming a federal building, fighting an offensive action against police, or disrupting the most important process in our democracy, and the military was already on standby for Trump to get a photo opp holding a bible upside down.

There were no rubber bullets fired at the faces of these protesters yesterday and most of the arrests happened after they had already been cordially helped out of the capitol building whilst taking selfie’s with the police, and stealing / destroying federal property.Besides the girl that was shot by the secret service, the treatment to these people was vastly different to that of last summer.

 

[TUMe]

Over 50 people were arrested yesterday and as we know an unarmed woman was shot and killed. Not sure where this narrative is coming from.

There were three who died of medical emergencies brought on by clashes with police. It has been a couple of hours since your post and that information has been stated and under investigation.

Casualties, injuries and arrests
D.C. Police Chief Robert Contee said that, in addition to the woman shot by Capitol police, two men and one woman died in “separate medical emergencies.” At least 14 of Contee's officers were injured during the demonstrations, he said. Two pipe bombs — one from the DNC and one from the RNC — were recovered.

 

[URedskin54]

This narrative is a really cynical political play and does nothing but draw attention off of what happened yesterday and back to 2020, which I caught myself doing and am really trying to avoid. We should focus on the bad people from yesterday, several of which should face terrorism charges. The fact that bombs were found at both the RNC and DNC is nuts and I’m really more interested in seeing these people punished

 

[astonmartin708]

I’ll not rely on the opinion of a Tucker Carlson guest thanks.

 

[URedskin54]

I’ll not rely on the opinion of a Tucker Carlson guest thanks.

You do you, but whether or not those things were used is not actually opinion. It’s a factual assertion that can be corroborated or disproven.

Someone from the very MAGA publication The Atlantic

 

[lawpoke87]

It’s not a “narrative” it’s an objective fact. More people were arrested and injured outside the whitehouse during a much more peaceful protest which didn’t include storming a federal building, fighting an offensive action against police, or disrupting the most important process in our democracy, and the military was already on standby for Trump to get a photo opp holding a bible upside down.

There were no rubber bullets fired at the faces of these protesters yesterday and most of the arrests happened after they had already been cordially helped out of the capitol building whilst taking selfie’s with the police, and stealing / destroying federal property.Besides the girl that was shot by the secret service, the treatment to these people was vastly different to that of last summer.

The objective fact is that four people died in altercations with police yesterday at the protest, riot, whatever the hell we want to call it while 50 were arrested. Can you name a single BLM protest over the past ten years where four people died due to police actions in a single day? Trying to be objective here by citing facts including deaths and arrests. How many times have police shot and killed an unarmed BLM protester during a protest? Again...let’s cite figures to keep it objective.

 

[astonmartin708]

You do you, but whether or not those things were used is not actually opinion. It’s a factual assertion that can be corroborated or disproven.

Someone from the very MAGA publication The Atlantic

View embedded media

I never said they didn’t use tear gas. I said they didn’t use any sort of offensive force like we saw against BLM protesters in the past. There were no helicopters, no “non lethal” bullets, no water cannons etc...

 

[astonmartin708]

The objective fact is that four people died in altercations with police yesterday at the protest, riot, whatever the hell we want to call it while 50 were arrested. Can you name a single BLM protest over the past ten years where four people died due to police actions in a single day? Trying to be objective here by citing facts including deaths and arrests. How many times have police shot and killed an unarmed BLM protester during a protest? Again...let’s cite figures to keep it objective.

Uh. You sited a list of multiple times that police shot unarmed protesters at protests. Lol. Also we don’t know what 3 of the people died of... they could have fallen off the walls of the capitol or have been trampled by the crowd for all we know.

 

[lawpoke87]

Uh. You sited a list of multiple times that police shot unarmed protesters at protests. Lol. Also we don’t know what 3 of the people died of... they could have fallen off the walls of the capitol or have been trampled by the crowd for all we know.

You apparently didn’t read what I posted. Only one of those deaths were from police fire. Out of all the protests across the country we’ve seen over the last few years the rate of police shooting unarmed protestors is extremely low. Happened yesterday though. Again... objective and facts.

 

[astonmartin708]

You apparently didn’t read what I posted. Only one of those deaths were from police fire. Out of all the protests across the country we’ve seen over the last few years the rate of police shooting unarmed protestors is extremely low. Happened yesterday though. Again... objective and facts.

And none of those protestors were attempting to overthrow the government at large. But the chick in the capitol was.

 

[rivalcane]

You don’t think this act has cost the tax payers millions in dollars already? Moreover it assaulted democracy which you keep neglecting to acknowledge. Raiding a target vs raiding the us capitol while it confirms the new President.... which one is worse?

wasted tax dollars and assaulted democracy? mueller report, impeachment, A political party using the government for partisan activities, spying on an opposition candidate,

 

[lawpoke87]

And none of those protestors were attempting to overthrow the government at large. But the chick in the capitol was.

The unarmed woman behind the barricaded door surrounded by police with assault weapons and body armor. Yeah....she was certainly an imminent threat to the democracy of this country as well as the lives of those around her.

I’ve yet to hear a reasonable scenario on how those protestors were going to overthrow our government btw.

The shame here is if she were going around murdering people during a BLM riot you would be justifying her actions.

 

[aTUfan]

And none of those protestors were attempting to overthrow the government at large. But the chick in the capitol was.

The attempts by the dems, for the past 4 years, using their gov office for a coup.

 

[URedskin54]

I never said they didn’t use tear gas. I said they didn’t use any sort of offensive force like we saw against BLM protesters in the past. There were no helicopters, no “non lethal” bullets, no water cannons etc...

I try hard, but i don’t think I’m going to be able to understand your perspective on this one. So let’s agree to disagree

 

[cmullinsTU]

I never said they didn’t use tear gas. I said they didn’t use any sort of offensive force like we saw against BLM protesters in the past. There were no helicopters, no “non lethal” bullets, no water cannons etc...

You said you don’t trust a source that’s a regular on Tucker Carlson so URedskin provided another source.

It is reasonable for everyone to assume since you were denying the first source you were implying it didn’t happen.

 

[astonmartin708]

You said you don’t trust a source that’s a regular on Tucker Carlson so URedskin provided another source.

It is reasonable for everyone to assume since you were denying the first source you were implying it didn’t happen.

I’m not implying anything I’m saying the level of escalation never reached what we saw last year. Not even close. Pepper spray and tear gas wasn’t what people were angry about last year. There has been no proof that there was any level of offensive aggression comparable to last year against mostly peaceful protestors (besides a single gunshot) committed by police in defense of our institutions. Pepper spray and and a bit of tear gas is not comparable to this:


Was this girl breaking into congress and trying to overthrow the government? Oh that’s right she wasn’t.

For example last June during the DCprotests, on one day five times as many BLM protesters were arrested (289) as were arrested two days ago.

 

[watu04]

In DC some of the the mob were heavily armed, had IEDs or Molotov cocktalis and met a small group of barely equipped police. One DC cop died after a rioter hit him in the head with a fire extinguisher.

Watch how this police trainer analyzes a peaceful protest in Seattle. Note how heavily the police are equipped and what they used On the protesters.

Opinion | Watch This Protest Turn From Peaceful to Violent in 60 Seconds (Published 2020)

As a former police officer, I’ve handled large protests. What I saw in Seattle disturbed me.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Gmoney4WW]

How successful she & others were does not matter. Overthrowing the government was her motive. It sets a precedent. It gives terrorists a plan that almost worked, despite the disorganized, unplanned actions by a mass of people whom were by and large unintelligent. Now a foreign terrorist organization has a plan. If they can get enough people together that look like ordinary Americans to put on a riot they can plan it decisively to try and help it succeed the second time around. A well planned effort with this incident as a guide on what to do, and what not to do, has a much better chance. No matter how successful it was or wasn't is not the issue.

 

[URedskin54]

.

 

[TU_BLA]

I keep seeing people say this but it just isn’t true. An unarmed woman was shot and killed by police (deservedly in my opinion) and three others died in “medical events” that may have been brought on by physical altercations with police.

The reaction was different and very noticeable. If that had been 1000 BLM protesters we would have seen hundreds of tear gas cannisters set off, rubber bullets and possibly 25-50 dead. As it went down, some people got pepper sprayed, the one individual was shot trying to breach the House chamber floor after repeated warnings from Capitol Police and Little Plumber Boy to stand down. My guess is the firing would have started the second the protesters breached the barricade if it was a BLM protest. We saw this play out over the last year. BLM protestors were approached differently than MAGA protesters. Proud Boys and Boogaloos plotted to kidnap the Governor of MI, they stormed the capitol there armed with semi-automatic assault weapons. How many of them died from police using deadly force?

 

[lawpoke87]

How successful she & others were does not matter. Overthrowing the government was her motive. It sets a precedent. It gives terrorists a plan that almost worked, despite the disorganized, unplanned actions by a mass of people whom were by and large unintelligent. Now a foreign terrorist organization has a plan. If they can get enough people together that look like ordinary Americans to put on a riot they can plan it decisively to try and help it succeed the second time around. A well planned effort with this incident as a guide on what to do, and what not to do, has a much better chance. No matter how successful it was or wasn't is not the issue.

While I’ve strongly denounced the actions of these people to characterize their plan as “almost working” couldn’t be further from the truth. Civilians storming a building will not and cannot over throw the US government. We have the three branches of government, Supreme Court and US military. To say “this almost worked” is nothing but hyperbole imo. This action never had a snowballs chance in hell.

 

[lawpoke87]

In DC some of the the mob were heavily armed, had IEDs or Molotov cocktalis and met a small group of barely equipped police. One DC cop died after a rioter hit him in the head with a fire extinguisher.

Watch how this police trainer analyzes a peaceful protest in Seattle. Note how heavily the police are equipped and what they used On the protesters.

Opinion | Watch This Protest Turn From Peaceful to Violent in 60 Seconds (Published 2020)

As a former police officer, I’ve handled large protests. What I saw in Seattle disturbed me.

www.nytimes.com

Why would a “heavily armed mob” have to resort to a fire extinguisher as their weapon of choice ? Not saying the statement isn’t true just odd people would arm themselves and then find a fire extinguisher to use as their weapon of choice.

 

[URedskin54]

Why would a “heavily armed mob” have to resort to a fire extinguisher as their weapon of choice ? Not saying the statement isn’t true just odd people would arm themselves and then find a fire extinguisher to use as their weapon of choice.

Guess it depends on how you look at it, but there were dudes found with molotov cocktails and several other explosive devices were found. The guy who bludgeoned a guy with the fire extinguisher wasn't otherwise heavily armed, but it's not a stretch to refer to the crowd that way overall.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

While I’ve strongly denounced the actions of these people to characterize their plan as “almost working” couldn’t be further from the truth. Civilians storming a building will not and cannot over throw the US government. We have the three branches of government, Supreme Court and US military. To say “this almost worked” is nothing but hyperbole imo. This action never had a snowballs chance in hell.

When I say almost worked, what I'm talking about is taking hostages and/or killing congress persons. Of course they can't overthrow our government this way. That idea is silly. But they can throw a lot of chaos and terror into the system.

 

[lawpoke87]

When I say almost worked, what I'm talking about is taking hostages and/or killing congress persons. Of course they can't overthrow our government this way. That idea is silly. But they can throw a lot of chaos and terror into the system.

I will say this...if a bunch of unarmed or lightly armed people can overtake the house chamber and kill or take its members hostage we need to seriously look at our security. Surely we have a terrorism plan where stationed security forces with auto weapons repel the terrorist while the members of Congress are escorted to safe rooms. Right ?

 

[cmullinsTU]

I will say this...if a bunch of unarmed or lightly armed people can overtake the house chamber and kill or take its members hostage we need to seriously look at our security. Surely we have a terrorism plan where stationed security forces with auto weapons repel the terrorist while the members of Congress are escorted to safe rooms. Right ?

It is really scary to me that it takes far less effort than what White House Down made it look like to overtake the Capital.

 

[GoldenCaneKC]

Surely we have a terrorism plan where stationed security forces with auto weapons repel the terrorist while the members of Congress are escorted to safe rooms. Right ?

If we didn’t already, I bet we do now...

 

[astonmartin708]

While I’ve strongly denounced the actions of these people to characterize their plan as “almost working” couldn’t be further from the truth. Civilians storming a building will not and cannot over throw the US government. We have the three branches of government, Supreme Court and US military. To say “this almost worked” is nothing but hyperbole imo. This action never had a snowballs chance in hell.

Ok... I’ll keep that in mind next time the Democrats lose... maybe Antifa will kidnap a number of house / senators at Biden’s discretion and force legislative actions under duress which is basically what these people really wanted. The fact that Trump wasn’t going to stand up to them if they had achieved a different outcome basically makes your “we have different branches of government” argument moot.

Who’s going to defend democracy when congress is literally under attack and the commander in chief of the military is complicit in that attack? 9 ancient justices in black robes? Get real.

What happens to the government when they’re being held hostage by paramilitary thugs and the president is directing those thugsto act against the will of the majority of Americans? You would hope that the military comes to our aid... but guess who controls the military? You basically have a 50/50 shot of falling into a dictatorship. The solution to this problem isn’t just saying that we shouldn’t let our congressmen be captured and held hostage, but also that we should under no circumstances allow the president to direct or even hint at the physical disruption of congress and their should be dire consequences for any would be dictator who attempts such an action.

Believe it or not, congress is the most important branch of government in terms of protecting our liberty because they are the branch most directly answerable to the people. It’s a slippery slope that you’re trying to stand defend. I would advise against it.

 

[aTUfan]

Wha

The reaction was different and very noticeable. If that had been 1000 BLM protesters we would have seen hundreds of tear gas cannisters set off, rubber bullets and possibly 25-50 dead. As it went down, some people got pepper sprayed, the one individual was shot trying to breach the House chamber floor after repeated warnings from Capitol Police and Little Plumber Boy to stand down. My guess is the firing would have started the second the protesters breached the barricade if it was a BLM protest. We saw this play out over the last year. BLM protestors were approached differently than MAGA protesters. Proud Boys and Boogaloos plotted to kidnap the Governor of MI, they stormed the capitol there armed with semi-automatic assault weapons. How many of them died from police using deadly force?

"What do we want? Dead cops.
When do we want it? Now."

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I will say this...if a bunch of unarmed or lightly armed people can overtake the house chamber and kill or take its members hostage we need to seriously look at our security. Surely we have a terrorism plan where stationed security forces with auto weapons repel the terrorist while the members of Congress are escorted to safe rooms. Right ?

If this is planned by a much more organized terror organization, they will come as armed to the teeth as they can be without off putting the authorities. They can hide a lot of explosives, grenades, and pistols, underneath heavy motorcycle jackets.

 

[aTUfan]

How about people who take over a city?

 

[aTUfan]

I wonder how many antifa, blm and other radical left wing groups were in the mob.
Did they take roll?

 

[watu04]

I am old enough to remember when this kind of security was not needed and this discussion would considered almost black science fiction. So would Tuesday’s events. But then so would the idea of a Trump presidency. Our country’s standards for what is acceptable or even lawful behavior have really changed. Witness the verbal beating by MAGA people on Lindsey Graham in an airport today.
.

 

[aTUfan]

There have always been problems with our elections
Nixon would have defeated jfk if mayor daily hadn't dumped voting machines into lake Michigan.

 

[watu04]

If this is planned by a much more organized terror organization, they will come as armed to the teeth as they can be without off putting the authorities. They can hide a lot of explosives, grenades, and pistols, underneath heavy motorcycle jackets.

Some among America's military allies believe Trump deliberately attempted a coup and may have had help from federal law-enforcement officials

The big unanswered question: Why were so few law-enforcement agents at the Capitol when demonstrations like that are usually heavily policed?

www.businessinsider.com