MLS

[chito_and_leon]

went to an MLS game yesterday, the MN team, had 52k in their last game at the U of M football stadium before moving to a soccer stadium. They averaged 22k fans this year (before the 52k game) and their new stadium holds 19.4k. I didn’t know Bubba was running stadium projects for MLS now.

Btw saw a dude in TU alumni gear. Didn’t get a chance to say hello tho.

Soccer needs more scoring and to get rid of the stupid offsides rule. And less moronic flopping. I do like the focus on beer tho.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Then you would have one or two attackers hanging out with the goalie and getting cheap goals. There is a good reason they don't get rid of the 'stupid' offsides penalty. Maybe they alter the offsides rule to encourage goals, but they should never get rid of it. The rest of the world is fine with low scoring games.

 

[chito_and_leon]

The rest of the world is fine with low scoring games.

The rest of the world drinks warm beer and soda without ice and eats offal. I’m not counting on their judgment.

But I get you about guys sitting back for easy goals. We wouldn’t want soccer made slow and boring with dreary stuff like this.

 

[TU_BLA]

There's a reason why soccer/futbol has the nickname "The beautiful game". Watch the clip of Arsenal's last goal yesterday against Leicester City. You can attack and still play by the rules. You want to Americanize the game because you get hard on goals being scored. The beauty in the game is not because it can be overpowered but because it's a combination of skill and vision and thinking ahead and being able to see the game develop. This is why the US fails at the international level. We try to overpower everything. We turn to guys like Jozy Altidore to run over people and that's how we develop kids who are playing the game, rather than trying to turn kids into Pulisic or Ozil or Messi, who see the game, can pass the ball through the eye of a needle and see a play develop 3 moves ahead.

 

[drboobay]

No way on getting rid of offside rule. It would completely change a great sport and there is no such need.

The old NASL experimented with an offside line that was maybe 35 yards from the goal to open up the game. In honestly I cannot remember if it resulted in more goals.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

If u want tons of goals then go watch indoor soccer.

 

[TU_BLA]

No way on getting rid of offside rule. It would completely change a great sport and there is no such need.

The old NASL experimented with an offside line that was maybe 35 yards from the goal to open up the game. In honestly I cannot remember if it resulted in more goals.

The NHL did away with their 2 line pass offside about 15-20 years ago. It opened the game up some but you still had to be conscious of the blue line and making sure the puck was in the zone before you were.

The reason it's hard to get breaks in soccer like that is the timing and the efficiency of the defensive back-lines in stepping up as a unit and essentially trapping an offensive player in an offside position. It is still fun to watch a GK with some savvy who is on the same page as say a Jamie Vardy playing one of the over the top line drive outlets and Vardy is in the clear by 20 yards because his run started on his half of the field. Plus there is something about soccer where the rarity of a goal being scored is cherished much more by fans.

 

[chito_and_leon]

If u want tons of goals then go watch indoor soccer.

Of course the alternative is that I just won’t watch soccer. Which is why they have stadiums the size of FCS football teams.

There's a reason why soccer/futbol has the nickname "The beautiful game". Watch the clip of Arsenal's last goal yesterday against Leicester City. You can attack and still play by the rules. You want to Americanize the game because you get hard on goals being scored. The beauty in the game is not because it can be overpowered but because it's a combination of skill and vision and thinking ahead and being able to see the game develop. This is why the US fails at the international level. We try to overpower everything. We turn to guys like Jozy Altidore to run over people and that's how we develop kids who are playing the game, rather than trying to turn kids into Pulisic or Ozil or Messi, who see the game, can pass the ball through the eye of a needle and see a play develop 3 moves ahead.

There’s absolutely no reason that you can’t have planning and strategy and vision and lots of scoring and fast pace. Watch the Warriors play basketball. I think there’s more strategy and vision in basketball because things happen so much faster. There’s less vision and strategy when it takes several seconds to move the pieces around because the field is so big. In soccer you only get that pace and strategy down around the goal. The game would be more interesting if it involved much more time within 20 yards of the goal where strategy, planning, coordination etc matter so much more.

When you have lower level teams like the mls you don’t have the talent for what you describe. In the absence of that, what can make the game more interesting?

The problem with soccer in the US is the arrogance. “It’s the best game ever, we will change nothing.” Baseball was like that too and attendance has plummeted. The international product is boring for way too many US fans. Especially at the skill level of players here.

 

[chito_and_leon]

The NHL did away with their 2 line pass offside about 15-20 years ago. It opened the game up some but you still had to be conscious of the blue line and making sure the puck was in the zone before you were.

The reason it's hard to get breaks in soccer like that is the timing and the efficiency of the defensive back-lines in stepping up as a unit and essentially trapping an offensive player in an offside position. It is still fun to watch a GK with some savvy who is on the same page as say a Jamie Vardy playing one of the over the top line drive outlets and Vardy is in the clear by 20 yards because his run started on his half of the field. Plus there is something about soccer where the rarity of a goal being scored is cherished much more by fans.

The dumb offsides rule also means that soccer has no real concept of a fast break or an offensive guy getting behind the defense like in football and basketball. It takes a ton of strategy and coordination to get behind the defense and it’s an exciting play. Soccer prevents that artificially. A fast break with an offensive guy using screens to get behind the defense and get a pass for a solo attack on goal would be very exciting. Soccer requires no defensive strategy to prevent that, so you lose that part of defensive strategy and awareness too.

 

[TU_BLA]

Of course the alternative is that I just won’t watch soccer. Which is why they have stadiums the size of FCS football teams.

There’s absolutely no reason that you can’t have planning and strategy and vision and lots of scoring and fast pace. Watch the Warriors play basketball. I think there’s more strategy and vision in basketball because things happen so much faster. There’s less vision and strategy when it takes several seconds to move the pieces around because the field is so big. In soccer you only get that pace and strategy down around the goal. The game would be more interesting if it involved much more time within 20 yards of the goal where strategy, planning, coordination etc matter so much more.

When you have lower level teams like the mls you don’t have the talent for what you describe. In the absence of that, what can make the game more interesting?

The problem with soccer in the US is the arrogance. “It’s the best game ever, we will change nothing.” Baseball was like that too and attendance has plummeted. The international product is boring for way too many US fans.

I'll say it...I hate the NBA. I won't watch a game not involving the Celtics or Thunder.

There are a ton of things that make soccer interesting to watch...for me anyway. The conditioning of the players. 3 subs...per game, meaning 7 players are playing the entire 90 minutes. Lot more interesting than watching LeBron James do a Neymar Flop and shooting 25 FTs a game. There's no artistry in the passing in the NBA (not anymore at least....guys like Magic, Bird, and John Stockton were fun to watch when they were passing the ball). And yes, the problem with US soccer is arrogance and the constant need for players to win immediately instead of develop. This is the biggest problem in youth sports in this country. Why are all the best young US soccer players in Europe right now? Because that's where they will be developed into complete players. Pulisic, Tim Weah, McKennie, Ream all in Europe and all contributing to high level clubs. And you're right...watching an MLS game is somewhat painful and is indicative of the problems with US soccer. Watch an EPL game, especially one that Manchester City is playing and watch the number of passes they complete while probing a hole or finding space in the defensive alignment. My son's coach told them "it's OK to go backwards. Most important thing is to keep the ball." It's hard to get an 11 or 12 year old to buy into keeping the ball and playing backwards when you know the ultimate goal is 70-90 yards in the opposite direction.

Soccer is an acquired taste and it takes time to understand.

 

[lawpoke87]

Funny you mention playing it back. My daughters team (2010s) spent half of their practice last night having the mids play the ball back to the defenders and then changing the point of attack to the mid on the opposite side. You could see the confusing as all of their young lives they've been told to keep the ball out of the middle on their side of midfield.

 

[TU_BLA]

Funny you mention playing it back. My daughters team (2010s) spent half of their practice last night having the mids play the ball back to the defenders and then changing the point of attack to the mid on the opposite side. You could see the confusing as all of their young lives they've been told to keep the ball out of the middle on their side of midfield.

Right. And when the goal is in front and going forward, it takes a little bit to grasp that sometimes to go forward, you have to take a small step back. Really want to confuse them, tell them to pass it back to their GKer.

There's also a right way to use that pass back to relieve pressure and if the coach is showing them right, the center back will have to drop a few paces off almost in a v-shape for the back line. Square passes in your own half can be disastrous if they are not at the right pace or if an opponent reads the play.

I can't remember but do the 10's play 7v7 or 9v9?

 

[aTUfan]

Add an over and back court rule like in basketball to force more offensive activity.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Right. And when the goal is in front and going forward, it takes a little bit to grasp that sometimes to go forward, you have to take a small step back. Really want to confuse them, tell them to pass it back to their GKer.

There's also a right way to use that pass back to relieve pressure and if the coach is showing them right, the center back will have to drop a few paces off almost in a v-shape for the back line. Square passes in your own half can be disastrous if they are not at the right pace or if an opponent reads the play.

I can't remember but do the 10's play 7v7 or 9v9?

My daughter is in under 10 and they’re learning all this stuff. It’s not like American kids are just taught to bulldoze straight ahead in a mad rush to the goal. I think the challenge in the US is that there are a lot of high profile alternatives to soccer. That’s why women’s soccer is so much better here than men’s.

 

[TU_BLA]

My daughter is in under 10 and they’re learning all this stuff. It’s not like American kids are just taught to bulldoze straight ahead in a mad rush to the goal. I think the challenge in the US is that there are a lot of high profile alternatives to soccer. That’s why women’s soccer is so much better here than men’s.

Actually, the tactic most employed in youth soccer today at both the rec and competitive levels is kick the ball over the top where you have a really gifted skilled player and hope he can beat the defense. I've seen it at every level, U7-U12 and even in some U13-U14-U15 games. Drives me crazy. (I watch a high level youth tournament that pitted a U14 LA Galaxy youth academy team vs Man. City youth academy team and the contrast in how the game was played was ridiculous.). I am a firm believer the US waits far too long to teach tactics and over emphasizes individual technical skill.

A few coaches get it, but until there is a clear emphasis on development from US Soccer and a common curriculum in training and teaching methods, we'll continue to see it. The other question is why can the US be successful at the youth world tournaments but fail when it gets to the senior level.

 

[lawpoke87]

Right. And when the goal is in front and going forward, it takes a little bit to grasp that sometimes to go forward, you have to take a small step back. Really want to confuse them, tell them to pass it back to their GKer.

There's also a right way to use that pass back to relieve pressure and if the coach is showing them right, the center back will have to drop a few paces off almost in a v-shape for the back line. Square passes in your own half can be disastrous if they are not at the right pace or if an opponent reads the play.

I can't remember but do the 10's play 7v7 or 9v9?

2010s is actually 8 year olds. They play 7v7. Formation wise they play a basic 2-2-2 which can morph into a 2-3-1 at times. Most of the practice time this fall has been spent on formation, spacing, passing, etc...

 

[HuffyCane]

My daughter is in under 10 and they’re learning all this stuff. It’s not like American kids are just taught to bulldoze straight ahead in a mad rush to the goal. I think the challenge in the US is that there are a lot of high profile alternatives to soccer. That’s why women’s soccer is so much better here than men’s.

Women’s soccer is better in this country than men’s relatively speaking only because of the disparity between the assets spent on women’s soccer in this country compared to elsewhere and the lack of such investment in the men’s team. Countries that are spending more are catching up. So don’t hold out too long on the idea that the women’s game is better simply because poor boys want to play in the NFL instead of Chelsea. Im confuses why this belief persists amongst people that actually know something about soccer like the folks reading this. They get a huge share despite the fact that the women’s game loses revenue and is entirely dependent on the men’s revenue and even youth fees. No other country in the world splits revenue like we do. But I’m cool with that, that’s an American value and they are out there playing for that.

 

[HuffyCane]

2010s is actually 8 year olds. They play 7v7. Formation wise they play a basic 2-2-2 which can morph into a 2-3-1 at times. Most of the practice time this fall has been spent on formation, spacing, passing, etc...

This makes me sad. At this age, they need to be learning touch, passing, team work and for the exceptional: vision. Formation and spacing is so low on the list. Your daughter needs to learn to love the ball and how to treat it whether that means how to steer it to goal, how to pass it forward, how to chase it down, or how to take it away from someone, depending all on her personality and mentality, not her athleticism or where the coach thinks she should play. It’s the only way she will stay interested. Enjoy every second watching her learn. It will be over in a blink.

 

[HuffyCane]

BTW. Vamos United! Eff the Red Bulls!

 

[chito_and_leon]

This makes me sad. At this age, they need to be learning touch, passing, team work and for the exceptional: vision. Formation and spacing is so low on the list. Your daughter needs to learn to love the ball and how to treat it whether that means how to steer it to goal, how to pass it forward, how to chase it down, or how to take it away from someone, depending all on her personality and mentality, not her athleticism or where the coach thinks she should play. It’s the only way she will stay interested. Enjoy every second watching her learn. It will be over in a blink.

Formation and spacing is the only thing that separates soccer from rugby up to about 12 years of age. You don’t learn much of anything if there are 8 kids in a bunch wailing away at the ball. It’s alsi the only way to teach aspects of the sport that require team. Otherwise you get kids who just try to mindlessly dribble and shoot. Formstion and spacing presupposes a team and coordinated effort which you wouldn’t get from kids otherwise. And it’s hard to learn to pass if there’s nobody to pass to.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Actually, the tactic most employed in youth soccer today at both the rec and competitive levels is kick the ball over the top where you have a really gifted skilled player and hope he can beat the defense. I've seen it at every level, U7-U12 and even in some U13-U14-U15 games. Drives me crazy. (I watch a high level youth tournament that pitted a U14 LA Galaxy youth academy team vs Man. City youth academy team and the contrast in how the game was played was ridiculous.). I am a firm believer the US waits far too long to teach tactics and over emphasizes individual technical skill.

A few coaches get it, but until there is a clear emphasis on development from US Soccer and a common curriculum in training and teaching methods, we'll continue to see it. The other question is why can the US be successful at the youth world tournaments but fail when it gets to the senior level.

Interestingly your opinion is the opposite of Huffy . I’ve never seen the phenomenon you’re talking about but my daughter is only 9 and my son quit at that age. Maybe it happens later. We’ve never had a team that encouraged ball hogging or relying on one player.

 

[HuffyCane]

We have the same points in a different way. What he is complaining about is the amateur American knee jerk reaction to try and use the simple tactics of over the top ball to try and exploit athletic and conditional mis matches.

For whatever reason, Americans persist in believing that you either teach that, or you teach kids how to dribble and try to avoid the bunching you describe.

What’s really funny is that bunching you describe, without goals, is the way the game is played by millions of kids worldwide everyday.

There is no bunching if there is no game like you describe if there is no game. Kids play way too many games and run far too many drills in America. Give them the ball and let them play one touch or keep away.

She can and should learn to touch and pass on her own with poles, walls, playground equipment and fences as defenders and feeding passers. An hour a day, stay healthy, and learn to keep her head up. That’s all you need to win the coveted college scholarship and more.

 

[HuffyCane]

And it’s hard to learn to pass if there’s nobody to pass to.

Totally false. The rest of that post is just an articulation of American culture and beliefs based on their experience with ground acquisition games like football and single achievement games like basketball. So much more going on with soccer. It’s hard to learn how to pass if you don’t know the mechanics of kicking the ball and you only learn that by touching the ball, trusting the ball, and building muscle memory. Whether there is a kid on the other end comes later. Lining up and letting every kid learn once how to pass it or run a drill wastes so much time when every kid could be touching the ball and developing the above.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Totally false. The rest of that post is just an articulation of American culture and beliefs based on their experience with ground acquisition games like football and single achievement games like basketball. So much more going on with soccer. It’s hard to learn how to pass if you don’t know the mechanics of kicking the ball and you only learn that by touching the ball, trusting the ball, and building muscle memory. Whether there is a kid on the other end comes later. Lining up and letting every kid learn once how to pass it or run a drill wastes so much time when every kid could be touching the ball and developing the above.

I meant in a game, a real hostile situation. Obviously they can practice passing not in a game. It’s hard to learn how to pass strategically if there’s nobody more than 18 inches away from you.

But it has to be fun. 99.99999% of kids have no intention of playing past 5th or 6th grade. The goal is much more to get the benefits of team sports than to produce world class soccer players. You guys might not like that but it’s true. Producing kids who can play in bundesliga or whatever it’s called is like goal #12 of youth soccer.

 

[lawpoke87]

This makes me sad. At this age, they need to be learning touch, passing, team work and for the exceptional: vision. Formation and spacing is so low on the list. Your daughter needs to learn to love the ball and how to treat it whether that means how to steer it to goal, how to pass it forward, how to chase it down, or how to take it away from someone, depending all on her personality and mentality, not her athleticism or where the coach thinks she should play. It’s the only way she will stay interested. Enjoy every second watching her learn. It will be over in a blink.

They work on formation and spacing to facilitate passing. The formation and spacing work always involve passing, opening lanes, and finding space with the ball. I'm a baseball guy so this soccer stuff is relatively new to me. I do know a girl will get more praise for a pass which generates a scoring opportunity than an actual goal. Their focus seems to be on spacing and sharing the ball. No clue if what their teaching at the academy is right or wrong long term. We do play a ton of games. We play 4 or 5 this weekend beginning tomorrow. I'm ready for the winter slowdown. It's a lot and I coached competitive baseball for 12 years.

 

[chito_and_leon]

We have the same points in a different way. What he is complaining about is the amateur American knee jerk reaction to try and use the simple tactics of over the top ball to try and exploit athletic and conditional mis matches.

For whatever reason, Americans persist in believing that you either teach that, or you teach kids how to dribble and try to avoid the bunching you describe.

What’s really funny is that bunching you describe, without goals, is the way the game is played by millions of kids worldwide everyday.

There is no bunching if there is no game like you describe if there is no game. Kids play way too many games and run far too many drills in America. Give them the ball and let them play one touch or keep away.

She can and should learn to touch and pass on her own with poles, walls, playground equipment and fences as defenders and feeding passers. An hour a day, stay healthy, and learn to keep her head up. That’s all you need to win the coveted college scholarship and more.

Lots of kids here play organized soccer but it’s not the sport they choose to play most of the time at recess on the playground.

Kids like playing games more than drills or keep away. If they’re going to play outside organized activities it’ll be 3 on 3 games etc. I’ve never seen kids bunching up and whacking away without the intent of getting a goal. Maybe it’s a stupid american thing. They just don’t seem to find that fun.

 

[chito_and_leon]

They work on formation and spacing to facilitate passing. The formation and spacing work always involve passing, opening lanes, and finding space with the ball. I'm a baseball guy so this soccer stuff is relatively new to me. I do know a girl will get more praise for a pass which generates a scoring opportunity than an actual goal. Their focus seems to be on spacing and sharing the ball. No clue if what their teaching at the academy is right or wrong long term. We do play a ton of games. We play 4 or 5 this weekend beginning tomorrow. I'm ready for the winter slowdown. It's a lot and I coached competitive baseball for 12 years.

Yeah it’s the same for us. In part because kids will quit if there’s a ball hog who gets all the good touches. I suspect it’s driven more by a desire to encourage more kids to play (and not quit) than by a strategic intent to develop better players. Btw if you think soccer is time intensive, try hockey! It’s insane.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

The dumb offsides rule also means that soccer has no real concept of a fast break or an offensive guy getting behind the defense like in football and basketball. It takes a ton of strategy and coordination to get behind the defense and it’s an exciting play. Soccer prevents that artificially. A fast break with an offensive guy using screens to get behind the defense and get a pass for a solo attack on goal would be very exciting. Soccer requires no defensive strategy to prevent that, so you lose that part of defensive strategy and awareness too.

If you want to use the basketball analogy then there are a couple really important areas where it falls apart. One, they have a rule that is distinctly like the offsides rule in basketball. It's called the 3 second restricted area rule. It just doesn't hinder the scoring as much because of the size of the field/court. Two,there are fast breaks. When a pass is made at the right time and the player being passed to breaks at the right moment from the right place on the field. They just don't happen as often because the field is bigger and the offsides rule to take away offensive advantage over defense.

Two, when it is one on one in basketball if the defender is equal to the offensive player then there is no distinct advantage. That is unlike in futbol, where the offense has the advantage no matter how good or bad the goalie is in a one on one situations, especially in the medium to close range. One man cannot cover that goal in a one on one situation as well as a forward/midfielder of even average ability can find a way to score. They usually have the advantage when attempting to place the ball in the right spot(s) to score a goal. Advantages in one on one situations in futbol almost every time goes to the offense.

I always love how only Americans have the solution to fixing futbol, when it's not broken. The rest of the world support it way beyond how they support any American games. How would you feel if you went to another country, and they had ways of fixing football that would make it more viable in their country. It is an egocentric viewpoint of Americans to fix futbol. If we fixed futbol the same way, it would not exactly be futbol any more, just like indoor soccer is not really futbol. Just because the US mentality obsesses over scoring and points, evidenced by Basketball and Football's obsession to provide the advantage to the offense, doesn't mean the world can not have that obsession. Also the NBA has become a little too obsessed with this, evidenced by the backlash of American fans who prefer the truer sport of college ball over the pros.

The appreciation of strategy and defense as equal to offense is the worlds right to be different from the US. The US has the prerogative and the right to change the rules of basketball and football as much as they want to, just as the world unit has the right to change or not change the rules of futbol. They are not worried in the least that stadiums across the globe are going to have small crowds or the games are going to have a small tv audience, mainly because there is no reason to worry about this.

 

[TU_BLA]

Women’s soccer is better in this country than men’s relatively speaking only because of the disparity between the assets spent on women’s soccer in this country compared to elsewhere and the lack of such investment in the men’s team. Countries that are spending more are catching up. So don’t hold out too long on the idea that the women’s game is better simply because poor boys want to play in the NFL instead of Chelsea. Im confuses why this belief persists amongst people that actually know something about soccer like the folks reading this. They get a huge share despite the fact that the women’s game loses revenue and is entirely dependent on the men’s revenue and even youth fees. No other country in the world splits revenue like we do. But I’m cool with that, that’s an American value and they are out there playing for that.

Women's soccer in this country got ahead of the world because of the college game and Title IX. Women's soccer was added by many schools to add scholarship $. Look at how many more colleges play D1 women's soccer than D1 men's soccer. This gave an expanded opportunity to play beyond HS for a lot of girls. In the US, if you had the ability to play beyond HS many went lower level pro to develop. How many USMNT (past and current) actually went through the college soccer route? Claudio Reyna is about the best I can remember...he played at UVA. Almost all of the best US women's players, especially in that first generation of women's world cup players played in college.

Is the expansion of the women's game globally an initiative of FIFA or other countries not wanting to lose to the US?

 

[TU_BLA]

They work on formation and spacing to facilitate passing. The formation and spacing work always involve passing, opening lanes, and finding space with the ball. I'm a baseball guy so this soccer stuff is relatively new to me. I do know a girl will get more praise for a pass which generates a scoring opportunity than an actual goal. Their focus seems to be on spacing and sharing the ball. No clue if what their teaching at the academy is right or wrong long term. We do play a ton of games. We play 4 or 5 this weekend beginning tomorrow. I'm ready for the winter slowdown. It's a lot and I coached competitive baseball for 12 years.

Spacing is such a key part of the game. Not only being in space, but being in the right space to make you a threat. Moving into that space will be the next part. In a world of concrete "I need to see..." ideals, getting younger players to understand playing a ball into a space for no one in particular is not a bad thing. At some point the person with the ball and the person who needs to be making a run into that space will be on the same page...that's when it gets going.

BTW...the winter slowdown is a myth. You've got indoor and futsal and conditioning.

 

[lawpoke87]

I always assume that women's soccer wasn't necessarily ahead of men's soccer in the U.S. it was a matter of women's soccer not being emphasized or funded overseas and in south america. Thus....women's soccer was far behind men's across the globe. If and when Europe and South America begin to treat women's soccer the same as it's male counterpart we will be in the same situation.

..and yes we have indoor and futsal but those games aren't out of town tournaments and are limited to a game or two a week. The traveling has been the most time consuming part.

 

[TU_BLA]

I always assume that women's soccer wasn't necessarily ahead of men's soccer in the U.S. it was a matter of women's soccer not being emphasized or funded overseas and in south america. Thus....women's soccer was far behind men's across the globe. If and when Europe and South America begin to treat women's soccer the same as it's male counterpart we will be in the same situation.

..and yes we have indoor and futsal but those games aren't out of town tournaments and are limited to a game or two a week. The traveling has been the most time consuming part.

Maybe. I think a lot of girls play soccer in the US...maybe more than boys. They're also easier to teach and coach and rely on fundamentals. I watch the training sessions of the girls teams at TSC and they absorb every last word of their coaches. The US has the pool of women's players that Brazil, Spain, and Germany have for men's players. Yes, the rest of the world has closed the gap on the US in women's play, but the US is still ahead and with this current women's national team pool, they may have widened the gap a little more. Girls talk about Megan Rapinoe, Alex Morgan, and Carli Lloyd and yet Tobin Heath may be the US best overall player (don't get me wrong, Rapinoe is a beast). And behind them is another generation of great players waiting on their shot...and not just at 1 or 2 positions.

Watch the next set of games the women's team plays in. The opponents will try to sit back and defend and either steal a draw or if in a game that demands extra time or PKs, take their chances then.

 

[chito_and_leon]

If you want to use the basketball analogy then there are a couple really important areas where it falls apart. One, they have a rule that is distinctly like the offsides rule in basketball. It's called the 3 second restricted area rule. It just doesn't hinder the scoring as much because of the size of the field/court. Two,there are fast breaks. When a pass is made at the right time and the player being passed to breaks at the right moment from the right place on the field. They just don't happen as often because the field is bigger and the offsides rule to take away offensive advantage over defense.

Two, when it is one on one in basketball if the defender is equal to the offensive player then there is no distinct advantage. That is unlike in futbol, where the offense has the advantage no matter how good or bad the goalie is in a one on one situations, especially in the medium to close range. One man cannot cover that goal in a one on one situation as well as a forward/midfielder of even average ability can find a way to score. They usually have the advantage when attempting to place the ball in the right spot(s) to score a goal. Advantages in one on one situations in futbol almost every time goes to the offense.

I always love how only Americans have the solution to fixing futbol, when it's not broken. The rest of the world support it way beyond how they support any American games. How would you feel if you went to another country, and they had ways of fixing football that would make it more viable in their country. It is an egocentric viewpoint of Americans to fix futbol. If we fixed futbol the same way, it would not exactly be futbol any more, just like indoor soccer is not really futbol. Just because the US mentality obsesses over scoring and points, evidenced by Basketball and Football's obsession to provide the advantage to the offense, doesn't mean the world can not have that obsession. Also the NBA has become a little too obsessed with this, evidenced by the backlash of American fans who prefer the truer sport of college ball over the pros.

The appreciation of strategy and defense as equal to offense is the worlds right to be different from the US. The US has the prerogative and the right to change the rules of basketball and football as much as they want to, just as the world unit has the right to change or not change the rules of futbol. They are not worried in the least that stadiums across the globe are going to have small crowds or the games are going to have a small tv audience, mainly because there is no reason to worry about this.

International basketball has different rules, nobody cares. If they want to change the rules to be more intereting for them, who cares? Only soccer with its “laws” feels it must be inviolate. Btw NBA ratings are climbing and near all time highs. As is hockey which made rule changes to make the game more interesting for non hard core viewers. I don’t really care. I see 1 or 2 soccer games a year and never watch it on tv and I’m fine with that. My life is not incomplete without soccer as part of it. But the guy who owns the mls team seemed pretty keen on getting more people interested, I’d say it’s his problem not mine.

I like the idea of the restricted area near the goal. That would make things interesting. I like seeing that out of the box thinking!

 

[HuffyCane]

Funny how last cycle the women were minutes from elimination in the group stage, but they won it all and that’s all anybody remembers.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Funny how last cycle the women were minutes from elimination in the group stage, but they won it all and that’s all anybody remembers.

Being great doesn’t require that you be perfect.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Women's soccer in this country got ahead of the world because of the college game and Title IX. Women's soccer was added by many schools to add scholarship $. Look at how many more colleges play D1 women's soccer than D1 men's soccer. This gave an expanded opportunity to play beyond HS for a lot of girls. In the US, if you had the ability to play beyond HS many went lower level pro to develop. How many USMNT (past and current) actually went through the college soccer route? Claudio Reyna is about the best I can remember...he played at UVA. Almost all of the best US women's players, especially in that first generation of women's world cup players played in college.

Is the expansion of the women's game globally an initiative of FIFA or other countries not wanting to lose to the US?

It’s not just soccer. US women are outstanding in hockey, basketball and softball too. I think there are a lot of extremely talented athletes who have the opportunity to take advantage of their skills. As the world catches up we’ll win less but it’s hard to see us moving out of the top 4 or 5 in the world in any of these sports.

 

[HuffyCane]

Again, you guys keep focusing on tactics and formations. The point about learning early to pass into space is well taken, especially teaching the person passing to be aware of multiple decisions. But none of that matters if coaches aren’t teaching the basic body mechanics to perform the pass properly that they are trying to teach.

The kids just keep doing it wrong and nobody is helping them learn or understand what to do better because the coaches lack the knowledge to know what they should be correcting. The parents we call “coaches” went to a couple of clinics, got their badge online, watched some games and maybe read a book or two. Or worse, somebody is getting paid $100K with slightly better credentials. Meanwhile the clock ticks and muscle memory and strength is not being developed. I’m not talking about every team being a national team feeder. Kids like to do things that they are good at. Many take to things when they see their own improvement. Every U12 team can teach the basic mechanics and generate lifelong friendships and a love for the game. Instead we get drills, and fancy equipment and travel teams, etc. one of the reasons you claim this sport is taking so much time is the American method of practice is a colossal waste of time.

So they tell the girl something vague about recognition or spacing or timing or formation for the reason for the turnover when the real reason is that she turned out her hip and wasn’t breathing when she forced the pass into a space that seemed to make sense at the time. You can’t fool kids. Many of them give up because they it’s not fun to have a guy in his 40s pretend to know more than you.

At least more coaches have actually played the game albeit up to age 12 or so.

 

[lawpoke87]

It’s not just soccer. US women are outstanding in hockey, basketball and softball too. I think there are a lot of extremely talented athletes who have the opportunity to take advantage of their skills. As the world catches up we’ll win less but it’s hard to see us moving out of the top 4 or 5 in the world in any of these sports.

If Europe would ever institute training programs / academies for women like they currently have for men I believe we would drop behind most of those countries fairly quickly. Since there is very little money in women's soccer across the world such a change isn't likely though.

Have we discussed the pay for play issue with American soccer. Many of the top academies #1 teams travel across the country on a regular basis to play. Most require the player's family to pay for those expenses. You don't have the money you don't play on the top team. Another issue with our system imo.

 

[HuffyCane]

They have and they are.

Pay to play should be abolished. If you read what I write above, it stresses avoiding the excesses of pay to play and emphasizes learning concepts that parents should teach and that anyone can learn on the playground. In the best case scenario, a youth coach is able to convince the kids to learn the concepts and compete effectively at the local level. Then thecoarents and theircmoney aren’t needed.

 

[lawpoke87]

Again, you guys keep focusing on tactics and formations. The point about learning early to pass into space is well taken, especially teaching the person passing to be aware of multiple decisions. But none of that matters if coaches aren’t teaching the basic body mechanics to perform the pass properly that they are trying to teach.

The kids just keep doing it wrong and nobody is helping them learn or understand what to do better because the coaches lack the knowledge to know what they should be correcting. The parents we call “coaches” went to a couple of clinics, got their badge online, watched some games and maybe read a book or two. Or worse, somebody is getting paid $100K with slightly better credentials. Meanwhile the clock ticks and muscle memory and strength is not being developed. I’m not talking about every team being a national team feeder. Kids like to do things that they are good at. Many take to things when they see their own improvement. Every U12 team can teach the basic mechanics and generate lifelong friendships and a love for the game. Instead we get drills, and fancy equipment and travel teams, etc. one of the reasons you claim this sport is taking so much time is the American method of practice is a colossal waste of time.

So they tell the girl something vague about recognition or spacing or timing or formation for the reason for the turnover when the real reason is that she turned out her hip and wasn’t breathing when she forced the pass into a space that seemed to make sense at the time. You can’t fool kids. Many of them give up because they it’s not fun to have a guy in his 40s pretend to know more than you.

At least more coaches have actually played the game albeit up to age 12 or so.

My limited experience is that once the kids reach the age of 8 or 9 at these academies most have the basic fundamentals of passing, etc. If they don't the coaches will recommend privates or small group lessons. The coaches at my daughter's academy are all paid professionals who do not usually have a kid on the team btw.

The Tulsa area academies (I believe there are three or so) need to get over their egos and play each other more. We have a hard enough time scheduling similar skill teams which is why traveling is necessary. When the local academies refuse to play each other it only worsens the problem.