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International basketball has different rules, nobody cares. If they want to change the rules to be more intereting for them, who cares? Only soccer with its “laws” feels it must be inviolate. Btw NBA ratings are climbing and near all time highs. As is hockey which made rule changes to make the game more interesting for non hard core viewers. I don’t really care. I see 1 or 2 soccer games a year and never watch it on tv and I’m fine with that. My life is not incomplete without soccer as part of it. But the guy who owns the mls team seemed pretty keen on getting more people interested, I’d say it’s his problem not mine.

I like the idea of the restricted area near the goal. That would make things interesting. I like seeing that out of the box thinking!
The NASL met you in the middle with the line that was approximately midway between midfield and the goalie box. I don't think it drastically increased scoring output, but like TU_Bla, I can't remember the exact effect it had on scoring. You are right about the International basketball rules, and it has had a somewhat beneficial effect on the NBA in that it brought some international players here who played in or were influenced by this league who have a different skillset. The only issue is that there is not a well established international market in basketball that has a hugely successful tournament like the World Cup. Yes their is the Olympics and Fiba's championship, and those tournaments have to go by international rules the same as Futbol. You have to go by the international rules when you allow teams from the globe to compete. Are you saying you want to change the rules and force the world to change as well. Not a very democratic way of going about it. Leaving the international rules alone and allowing our rules to affect them in similar ways to the NBA being affected by European\International rules is a little more equitable.
 
That’s what you’ve been told. And it’s a load of bunk. They are leveraging your lack of reference to bolster their self serving statements. Visit a top flight academy in America with youth development professionals from abroad. They will comment on three things usually: how obsessed we are with playing games, how physically fit and competitive our players are, and the complete lack of credentials and coherent coaching concepts by the staffs.

Ask any really talented or succcesful soccer player in the last twenty years what contributed most to their success. In the US, the answer won’t be their outstanding State Cup coaches. It’s usually their own dedication to touching for an hour beyond practice. Reyna, DeMerit, Harkes, even marginal suburban talents like Jimmy Conrad give the same answer. Outside the US, the answer is more often than not the reserve coach tidying up what their academy team didn’t address. That should tell you everything you need to know about why it’s a crime that you pay for what you are not getting in most cases.
 
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That’s what you’ve been told. And it’s a load of bunk. They are leveraging your lack of reference to bolster their self serving statements. Visit a top flight academy in America with youth development professionals from abroad. They will comment on three things usually: how obsessed we are with playing games, how physically fit and competitive our players are, and the complete lack of credentials and coherent coaching concepts by the staffs.

I've also heard them comment about our obsession to win the game instead of properly teaching our kids how to play the game and taking the long term approach to player development. I can more than confirm this issue.

My daughter plays one position. It's ok with her because she loves playing it and is where she thinks she wants to play. However, I wonder if it's limiting her development. To be fair the coaches will let the girls play different positions if the games out of reach but she's rarely in the game at that point so it doesn't really apply.
 
You daughter should be playing in the position that matches her disposition. You know it better than anyone. Is she relentless, overly competitive and physical? I don’t care how good she dribbles, she’ll be happy playing the 8 or center back so let her learn that and express herself. If she likes helping everyone and has a kind soul that really likes seeing others succeed, then get her out on the wing. If she lacks speed, then right back. But make sure she is being taught again and again the fundamentals from someone who knows them and knows they are the most important thing.

Every soccer parent in America should show the attached video to their 14 year old, skipping the dirty part at the beginning.

 
It’s not just soccer. US women are outstanding in hockey, basketball and softball too. I think there are a lot of extremely talented athletes who have the opportunity to take advantage of their skills. As the world catches up we’ll win less but it’s hard to see us moving out of the top 4 or 5 in the world in any of these sports.
You are correct that it is not just soccer. Softball and baseball were essentially removed from the Olympics because of US domination in these events. I get the feeling there are probably some who want basketball removed because no one can compete with US professional players. It was different when it was college players and the USSR was using Red Army "soldiers" to play hockey and basketball.

Women's hockey will forever be the US and Canada...it's not even really close right now.
 
You daughter should be playing in the position that matches her disposition. You know it better than anyone. Is she relentless, overly competitive and physical? I don’t care how good she dribbles, she’ll be happy playing the 8 or center back so let her learn that and express herself. If she likes helping everyone and has a kind soul that really likes seeing others succeed, then get her out on the wing. If she lacks speed, then right back. But make sure she is being taught again and again the fundamentals from someone who knows them and knows they are the most important thing.

Every soccer parent in America should show the attached video to their 14 year old, skipping the dirty part at the beginning.


Thanks for the advice. They play 7 v 7 so there's only 2 defenders 2 - 3 mids and 1-2 forwards. She's a highly competitive very aggressive girl btw. A kid that hates losing more than she loves winning. She plays mid.
 
They have and they are.

Pay to play should be abolished. If you read what I write above, it stresses avoiding the excesses of pay to play and emphasizes learning concepts that parents should teach and that anyone can learn on the playground. In the best case scenario, a youth coach is able to convince the kids to learn the concepts and compete effectively at the local level. Then thecoarents and theircmoney aren’t needed.
The US misses seeing a ton of kids who can't afford to be on a travel team. Lawpoke, I don't know if you know this yet but the lower teams in a club are usually subsidizing the upper teams. I know at our club, a coach receives about $45-50 per player per month in their pay. Our dues are somewhere around $103 per month. With 3000 players that's about $5-10/month per player for facility fees, $5/month for league and ref fees. That leaves about $35/month per player. You've got tech directors, GK coaches, etc. sure. My guess is $15-20 per month goes to subsidize some of the travel costs for the players on the upper teams. BTW, that $103 is what our club charges the team. We pay another $40 per month so our team can play in tournaments each year (and our mgr has screwed things up and under charged so we're having to dish out extra whenever we do indoor or futsal). Don't mention the $300 uniforms, training and warm-ups and backpacks. We pay for our son to do extra GK training too. We figured out we're paying about $3000k per year for our kid to play soccer. I coached rec soccer and we had 2-3 kids who were really good but needed to be at a club for more consistent training and better coaching, but I knew they couldn't afford it. I had one kid I was trying to pull over because he was really good. He trained a couple of times with us and we connected him with someone at the club about getting put on scholarship. Even with that the $50/mo would have put them out of their affordability.

Pay to play sucks. The US needs to do a better job about finding these hidden players and give them chances...and then hold on to them unlike Jonathan Gonzalez.
 
The NASL met you in the middle with the line that was approximately midway between midfield and the goalie box. I don't think it drastically increased scoring output, but like TU_Bla, I can't remember the exact effect it had on scoring. You are right about the International basketball rules, and it has had a somewhat beneficial effect on the NBA in that it brought some international players here who played in or were influenced by this league who have a different skillset. The only issue is that there is not a well established international market in basketball that has a hugely successful tournament like the World Cup. Yes their is the Olympics and Fiba's championship, and those tournaments have to go by international rules the same as Futbol. You have to go by the international rules when you allow teams from the globe to compete. Are you saying you want to change the rules and force the world to change as well. Not a very democratic way of going about it. Leaving the international rules alone and allowing our rules to affect them in similar ways to the NBA being affected by European\International rules is a little more equitable.
Yeah I agree that the experimentation with rules in different places has helped the NBA. Having different forms of the game has helped it grow and evolve. I don’t care what rules international soccer uses. But I think it makes sense to allow soccer here to evolve to be interesting to people here. Maybe we could be better at soccer that evolves for Americans instead of perpetually being the red headed stepchild in the international rules. Why do we feel compelled to play like people in Barcelona and, well i don’t know the name of any cities in Argentina but them, tell us to?
 
I've also heard them comment about our obsession to win the game instead of properly teaching our kids how to play the game and taking the long term approach to player development. I can more than confirm this issue.

My daughter plays one position. It's ok with her because she loves playing it and is where she thinks she wants to play. However, I wonder if it's limiting her development. To be fair the coaches will let the girls play different positions if the games out of reach but she's rarely in the game at that point so it doesn't really apply.
If she's 8 she should be getting time at all of the positions and even take a turn at GK once in a while. My son loved it when he got to play GK, because he hates to run. Then Mr. Ricketts became his coach last year. My son's understanding of his role as a GK in the way it relates to the rest of the team drastically changed last year. He loves what he does because he also feels like he is an integral part of the team.

I can tell you with the right coach, a kid playing center back or on the back line will learn to see the game a little better and see how things open up.
 
It’s a bit ironic that we’re saying that the thing that keeps us from being better and winning more in adult international competitions is that our kids’ programs for 8 year olds focus too much on games and competition. This feels like playing scales on the piano. If your goal is to make a piano virtuoso then it’s important but it’s also a way to make it miserable and to make kids quit. Is the goal winning the world cup or having millions of kids have a good experience, learn sportsmanship and teamwork and get good exercise? From the posts on here, it’s not clear those can be compatible.
 
The US misses seeing a ton of kids who can't afford to be on a travel team. Lawpoke, I don't know if you know this yet but the lower teams in a club are usually subsidizing the upper teams. I know at our club, a coach receives about $45-50 per player per month in their pay. Our dues are somewhere around $103 per month. With 3000 players that's about $5-10/month per player for facility fees, $5/month for league and ref fees. That leaves about $35/month per player. You've got tech directors, GK coaches, etc. sure. My guess is $15-20 per month goes to subsidize some of the travel costs for the players on the upper teams. BTW, that $103 is what our club charges the team. We pay another $40 per month so our team can play in tournaments each year (and our mgr has screwed things up and under charged so we're having to dish out extra whenever we do indoor or futsal). Don't mention the $300 uniforms, training and warm-ups and backpacks. We pay for our son to do extra GK training too. We figured out we're paying about $3000k per year for our kid to play soccer. I coached rec soccer and we had 2-3 kids who were really good but needed to be at a club for more consistent training and better coaching, but I knew they couldn't afford it. I had one kid I was trying to pull over because he was really good. He trained a couple of times with us and we connected him with someone at the club about getting put on scholarship. Even with that the $50/mo would have put them out of their affordability.

Pay to play sucks. The US needs to do a better job about finding these hidden players and give them chances...and then hold on to them unlike Jonathan Gonzalez.
Are there other activities in the US that aren’t pay to play? We’ve done football, softball, drama and orchestra and they’re all pay to play if you’re serious about it.
 
The US misses seeing a ton of kids who can't afford to be on a travel team. Lawpoke, I don't know if you know this yet but the lower teams in a club are usually subsidizing the upper teams. I know at our club, a coach receives about $45-50 per player per month in their pay. Our dues are somewhere around $103 per month. With 3000 players that's about $5-10/month per player for facility fees, $5/month for league and ref fees. That leaves about $35/month per player. You've got tech directors, GK coaches, etc. sure. My guess is $15-20 per month goes to subsidize some of the travel costs for the players on the upper teams. BTW, that $103 is what our club charges the team. We pay another $40 per month so our team can play in tournaments each year (and our mgr has screwed things up and under charged so we're having to dish out extra whenever we do indoor or futsal). Don't mention the $300 uniforms, training and warm-ups and backpacks. We pay for our son to do extra GK training too. We figured out we're paying about $3000k per year for our kid to play soccer. I coached rec soccer and we had 2-3 kids who were really good but needed to be at a club for more consistent training and better coaching, but I knew they couldn't afford it. I had one kid I was trying to pull over because he was really good. He trained a couple of times with us and we connected him with someone at the club about getting put on scholarship. Even with that the $50/mo would have put them out of their affordability.

Pay to play sucks. The US needs to do a better job about finding these hidden players and give them chances...and then hold on to them unlike Jonathan Gonzalez.

I’m not familiar with the structure being a new participant. I know what we pay a month ($90) plus unis, travel costs, etc. I assume it will get only more expensive as she gets older. We have two required practices a week plus one optional. Then the weekend tournaments and a few league games. She’s really enjoying it and loves her coaches so we’re pretty happy thus far. Her coaches have been fantastic with her also. Really couldn’t ask for me from that standpoint.
 
Put all of that money in an education 401k type fund and it will be worth more than any scholarship she might earn. Academy soccer to “get noticed” to get a scholarship is one of the biggest frauds perpetrated against the American middle class. She can play and get noticed for far cheaper. If she’s good enough to justify paying $10K a year to “get noticed” then as a matter of ROI, you’ve got enough leverage to have her relocate and have someone pay the cost. As an example The Philadelphia Union residential academy is easily the most academically rigorous in the city and costs $4OK. It’s free if your kid can play and Mom is willing to kiss her goodbye to perfect her gifts. Europe same thing. If she doesn’t have the raw talent for someone to pay for her now, the chances of her developing into a superior talent in an academy are next to nil. NiL.its a waste of money unless the objective is to get her out of the house or she insists she only wants to play to be with her friends.
 
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Thanks for the advice. They play 7 v 7 so there's only 2 defenders 2 - 3 mids and 1-2 forwards. She's a highly competitive very aggressive girl btw. A kid that hates losing more than she loves winning. She plays mid.
If she’s right footed, then don’t let anyone tell you that she should be playing anywhere else than the 6 or 7. Run her to death in the off season. Ballet and yoga will help tremendously. Make her go. I had to do both as a 14-16 year old in Oklahoma in the mid-80s. The teasing was relentless but the dividends for a midfielder were undeniably tangible and almost immediate. Speed and jumping will increase immediately. And it’s something girly for her to do, which can be a struggle for female soccer players. And as always, make her touch the ball every day, even if that is just dribbling in her socks from her room to the fridge, dribbling in the yard, etc.

And I appreciate the ballet now as much as the game. And for often the same reasons.
 
Very simple on the rules. Drop offside and you lose all the current fans who grew up learning how to play with this essential rule. So you may as well call it something else. Different sport.
 
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If she’s right footed, then don’t let anyone tell you that she should be playing anywhere else than the 6 or 7. Run her to death in the off season. Ballet and yoga will help tremendously. Make her go. I had to do both as a 14-16 year old in Oklahoma in the mid-80s. The teasing was relentless but the dividends for a midfielder were undeniably tangible and almost immediate. Speed and jumping will increase immediately. And it’s something girly for her to do, which can be a struggle for female soccer players. And as always, make her touch the ball every day, even if that is just dribbling in her socks from her room to the fridge, dribbling in the yard, etc.

And I appreciate the ballet now as much as the game. And for often the same reasons.

We’re just having fun right now. She got to a point where she couldn’t stomach rec anymore. We’re a long way off from even thinking about a college ship or even playing in high school. She’s 8 :). Lots of things change as kid mature as you know. Just having fun watching her compete. All about perspective imo. Thanks for all the insight.
 
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We’re just having fun right now. She got to a point where she couldn’t stomach rec anymore. We’re a long way off from even thinking about a college ship or even playing in high school. She’s 8 :). Lots of things change as kid mature as you know. Just having fun watching her compete. All about perspective imo. Thanks for all the insight.
Im sorry. I misread. I thought she was in middle school going to high school for some reason. Keep that mindset through her senior year and you'll be fine.
 
Im sorry. I misread. I thought she was in middle school going to high school for some reason. Keep that mindset through her senior year and you'll be fine.

My oldest played competitive baseball and then varsity ball at Bixby. My wife played softball at Tech. Having gone through those experiences really helps keep things grounded. There a lot of first time “competitive parents” who treat every game as the World Cup. We just sit back and smile.
 
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It’s a bit ironic that we’re saying that the thing that keeps us from being better and winning more in adult international competitions is that our kids’ programs for 8 year olds focus too much on games and competition. This feels like playing scales on the piano. If your goal is to make a piano virtuoso then it’s important but it’s also a way to make it miserable and to make kids quit. Is the goal winning the world cup or having millions of kids have a good experience, learn sportsmanship and teamwork and get good exercise? From the posts on here, it’s not clear those can be compatible.
They are compatible. American has large enough and rich enough to have multiple sets of priorities. But we let the pay to play coaches/fraudsters hold too much sway over who camps where and who college coaches see and don't. Coach Mac can't be everywhere and even if he could, TU cant afford the travel. So there is a heavy dependence on ID camps, Dallas Cup, etc. Who goes there and what happens there is controlled too much by people concerned about their retirement and large house in a neighborhood with doctors and lawyers rather than really trying to figure out who can play and who should play where at what level.

But again, that is the cart before the horse. Pay to play doesn't matter if we aren't teaching kids properly before they get to that level.

Think about it: American youth soccer is obsessed with college scholarship prep, travel, multiple game weekend tournaments, camps, drills, formations, equipment, personalized kit, etc. But deep down we all know it doesnt matter. It is self evident in our culture.

You can take Johnny Lawerence and put him into a suburban training, give him a cool uniform to play in a slick tournament, surround him with a bunch of like minded friends who also paid their coach a ton of money to get them ready, but in the end, he did not learn "karate." He didn't really learn anything and it didnt get him ready for competition when it mattered. It prepared him to compete better at the All-Valley Tournament, but that wasn't really learning what karate was all about. To win, you still have to have three things: 1) commit yourself to being in a situation that gives you personal confidence, 2) trust those that are teaching you, and 3) put in the time to learn the fundamentals and muscle memory of "wax on-wax off". That's the only way Daniel wins and its the only way US soccer wins.

Coach Carter, Gene Hackman in Hoosiers, knew it. So did Rocky's corner man Mick. Learning the old school fundamentals is what you have to do. Break it down. Build it up. Anything fancy is an obstacle to learning the tools to succeed. Its a central theme of our culture.

For whatever god foresaken reason, American soccer thinks girls in Sand Springs have to travel to Houston, Tampa, Barcelona and play in $200 shoes to learn the game. But for whatever reason, that's the way it is. Dont buy it. And if someone asks you to buy it, I hope the iconic voice of Burgess Meredith echoes in your brain "Don't listen to 'em Rock. Keep working that bag. Keep punching to the body."
 
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Are there other activities in the US that aren’t pay to play? We’ve done football, softball, drama and orchestra and they’re all pay to play if you’re serious about it.
I know. There are rec leagues all around where the fee is minimal but then you're dealing with volunteer coaches who may or may not have a clue what they're doing in terms of development and doing it the right way.

And I'm not saying we need to eliminate games or competitions. We all know that a lot of these kids are driven by competing. But the approach in the coaching, the style, etc. is too focused for too long with the ball at a kid's feet. In baseball the focus is on hitting the ball high and far or pitching and kids just don't learn to play defense correctly or situational baseball. I wasn't the greatest baseball player, but my goal was to never make an error in the field, physically or mentally. Not enough time is spent on situational play and getting kids to think through the cause and effect stuff.

And yes, youth sports these days prices a lot of good athletes and players out of the opportunity to be coached by better coaches, licensed coaches, etc. And I can tell you from experience, that just because you played a sport in HS and know what should be done doesn't necessarily translate over into being able to relate that information to kids.
 
I've been on the waiting list for season tickets for my local MLS team for 5 years now. There's still 5000 people ahead of me in line. Hoping to get them by the time my son turns 10. The state of the sport is good in this country.
 
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I've been on the waiting list for season tickets for my local MLS team for 5 years now. There's still 5000 people ahead of me in line. Hoping to get them by the time my son turns 10. The state of the sport is good in this country.
It's better than what it was and it's growing. It can also be better especially with the continued growth and quality of USL. This is the 1st period in US soccer where the top division and 2nd divisions of professional soccer are on pretty solid ground. There is still a growing faction of soccer fans that want to see some sort of promotion/relegation. Where's the $ though and I doubt MLS teams/cities want to see $ going out the door as they suck and get dropped down. Plus, until there is a minimum stadium standard, i.e. no playing on converted baseball fields, we're not likely to see that. MLS has some fantastic stadiums that take after the great EPL stadiums for smaller clubs. Ones in KC, Frisco, TX, Carson, CA, LAFC's, Red Bull Arena are all fantastic. While I like that Atl Utd can sell 60k tickets each game and come close to filling the football stadium, I don't think that is a long term solution for MLS teams. If every team was able to fill a 25k stadium every game, MLS would be booming. What would the minimum be for USL sides who wanted to look at moving up to MLS through a pro/rel model? 10k? I don't know what the model is to make pro/rel work here. I know how pro/rel works on the surface for EPL, but I don't know the $ divisions i.e. how much money does each team who plays in EPL get from the FA for a season? How much less does a 2nd tier squad get?

Of course, if you have this model, you don't have dumba$$ owners wanting to move their teams every 5 years because one city refuses to foot the bill so he can make more money.
 
I read this whole thread and realized it had nothing to do with Real Estate Listings... what a let down.
 
Incredible match last night in front of 40k in Seattle with 5 goals after the 68th minute. As someone who went to my fair share of MLS games in empty NFL stadiums in the late-90s, it never gets old.
 
Speaking of soccer surfaces has anyone been to the Keas Complex in Bixby? Best amateur fields I've ever seen. The surfaces were like putting greens. No idea how they cut all that grass that close.
 
Speaking of soccer surfaces has anyone been to the Keas Complex in Bixby? Best amateur fields I've ever seen. The surfaces were like putting greens. No idea how they cut all that grass that close.
My son has played there before. If you're saying they're like putting greens, then they've put some serious work into them because when he played they were very uneven and had a ton of gopher mounds/holes. I even went and got a tournament organizer to come and fill in a couple of holes that would have broken some ankles had a kid hit them wrong.

Best surface in the state is at TU in the soccer/track and field complex. 2nd best is the practice field/drainage ditch south of the tennis facility. Always tell my son when he goes to the TU soccer camp he probably won't get on a better pitch unless he plays college soccer at a high level program.

I don't like the turf surfaces for several reasons. You get odd bounces (and/or skips when it's wet). It's hard on the players and slide tackles. It's really rough on goalkeepers and their gloves (this is important to me...good GK gloves are expensive and turf fields chew them up.)

I watched that game. It was pretty insane. The 2nd goal Ruizdiaz scored in stoppage time was an unbelievable strike. The 1st goal he scored was pure luck...but it also gave me something to show my son that even top level GKs spill balls they really shouldn't.

I still hate PKs settling high stakes games/tournaments. There has to be a better way.
 
We played a tournament at Keas a few weeks ago and the fields were amazing....especially for this late in the season. Grass is cut very low and perfectly smooth which made for a fast but even surface, Almost like they rolled the field. Didn't see one gopher mound or even evidence of them.
 
We played a tournament at Keas a few weeks ago and the fields were amazing....especially for this late in the season. Grass is cut very low and perfectly smooth which made for a fast but even surface, Almost like they rolled the field. Didn't see one gopher mound or even evidence of them.
That's good. The complex in and of itself is beautiful. Parking has a little to be desired.

Indian Springs is a good complex with good parking and lots of fields. But the City of BA seems to not like cutting the grass down to a playable level. My son's team plays its home games there and the grass comes over the tops of their shoes. Not conducive for fast pace of play or playing passes with the correct weight.

Worst complex, IMO, for a tournament is Mohawk. The fields are OK, parking is atrocious but the worst part is getting in an out. At some point there is going to be a major wreck on US 75 at that exit because people don't realize the tournament traffic backs all the way into the right lane heading northbound. Also, those upper fields by the highway suck especially when it's windy. You've got kids running all over the place and into other fields chasing balls down ski slopes.

I like the Metro fields (both north and south complexes). The grass is usually nice except when the city can't mow because they're too wet.
 
Metro fields are nice. Parking is tough in the south complex and the grass is usually too high for my liking in the north complex. As you stated....Mohawk is awful. The Sand Springs complex has nice fields but parking is atrocious. Parking isn't great at any complex other than Metro North though. Titan in Jenks has one of the nicer complexes in the area imo. The new fields by the large indoor complex should be coming online by spring.
 
Metro fields are nice. Parking is tough in the south complex and the grass is usually too high for my liking in the north complex. As you stated....Mohawk is awful. The Sand Springs complex has nice fields but parking is atrocious. Parking isn't great at any complex other than Metro North though. Titan in Jenks has one of the nicer complexes in the area imo. The new fields by the large indoor complex should be coming online by spring.
My son has been practicing at the Titan North complex this Fall. They just finished over seeding some of the fields and I guess they're doing the outer fields now. I have some issues with the grass fields there. They seem too narrow. The turf field is nice but it's turf. Titan South is garbage. The grass is awful and spotty. The soil there has too much clay to get a great surface to grow consistently. The ball rolls really inconsistently.

The WSA fields in Sand Springs are brutal on a tourney weekend. And we always seem to play there when the bermuda is dormant so the surface is really fast...but it also presents issues for a young GK trying to elevate a goal kick because the ball doesn't sit right. It's always fun to watch the kids out there when the eagles are flying overhead because soccer seems to be the least important thing at that moment :joy:

The NEOFC fields in Owasso are nice. Bartlesville complex is garbage. If you ever have to go to the Arkansas Comets complex in Springdale, don't blink because you'll never find it. Have to turn into a warehouse parking lot and drive to the back to get to it. The complex has about 6 fields tucked in an industrial park you can't quite see from the road and then the GPS navigator yells at you for missing the turn
 
We played at the Comet complex last month. Good parking and concessions. We’ve played at a couple of complexes in OKC which were decent. Hate to hear that about Titan north. Had high hopes for that place due to the indoor facility. Assuming your son place with TSC?
 
We played at the Comet complex last month. Good parking and concessions. We’ve played at a couple of complexes in OKC which were decent. Hate to hear that about Titan north. Had high hopes for that place due to the indoor facility. Assuming your son place with TSC?
They rushed Titan North and I'm not sure they gave the grass enough time to take hold. There are some other issues there as well behind some of the fields, they need some nets to keep the balls from going into the marsh.

We played at the South Lakes Cosmos complex last June in the OPC State Cup. Good fields, decent parking, nice concessions and restrooms (always a plus).

He's been at TSC for the last 4 years since moving over from rec soccer. This year has been a re-learning process as teams/coaches were shuffled.
 
73,019 in Atlanta to watch the MLS Cup. Never thought I’d see the day.
 
73,019 in Atlanta to watch the MLS Cup. Never thought I’d see the day.
Just another false stereo type about the South from the North. We will see where they are at when the arena is 10 years old or more and they aren’t spending freely on coaches and players, but yeah pretty cool.

Another stereo type buster: Not sure if it is still true but for years Tulsa was ranked number one in EPL viewers nationally per capita. There was a match a few years back where like 1 out of every 7 households in Tulsa was watching soccer. Good stuff. Of course, the Grant Wahl’s of the world, incapable of understanding that Tulsa has had a robust youth soccer program for 50 years, the influence of the oil industry in bringing in international workers and the surge in Mexican/Central American workers might explain why so many people love soccer in this town explained it away as poor polling data in other markets.
 
By the way, Garber gave his traditional halftime interview where he fuels interest in the league (perpetuates the Ponzi scheme for you cynics) by stating that MLS is not done expanding, that small markets are not shut out from consideration and hints that cities not previously mentioned could get a franchise.

So new life for you MLS to Tulsa dreamers and those that understand that a strong soccer team would help overcome the perception of Tulsa as Oklahoma’s second city. Any body got George Kaiser or an eccentric power ball winner on speed dial?
 
Just another false stereo type about the South from the North.

I'm well aware of the popularity of soccer in the South, but there's also a strong anti-soccer sentiment. Just check the twitter responses for ATL United's beat writers last night. There are people who hate the sport with the ferocity of a TU faculty member discussing our football team. You also have to consider that this isn't some Man City/Chivas exhibition, it's a domestic league game featuring a team that didn't even exist 2 years ago. It's a big deal.
 
I'm well aware of the popularity of soccer in the South, but there's also a strong anti-soccer sentiment. Just check the twitter responses for ATL United's beat writers last night. There are people who hate the sport with the ferocity of a TU faculty member discussing our football team. You also have to consider that this isn't some Man City/Chivas exhibition, it's a domestic league game featuring a team that didn't even exist 2 years ago. It's a big deal.
It sounds like you think I disagree with you. I don’t. But for the sake of discussion, not argument, It’s a good thing to see such success. I just don’t think it is a huge big deal like the MLS fan boys and the broadcast make it out to be. It wasn’t a surprise.

First, Americans will watch two guys install dual sinks in a master bedroom if there is a winner to be declared and they can identify with the winner. You know this to be true if you are old enough to remember the Soviet chess matches on national television. More over, ATL is a notorious bandwagon town.

Second, the interest in Southern soccer isn’t that recent. Chattanooga of all places was getting sell out crowds in excess of 10,000 in effing July a few years ago. Now that raised eyebrows.

Third, the casual fans, and there were plenty of them last night, are there because of the new venue and low prices. You don’t to look farther than the Braves and NASCAR in the same town to see a crappy venue and high prices will keep folks at home. So I’m afraid you are going to have to wait 10 years before anyone declares Atlanta a soccer town.

after the paint dries, given them a couple of losing seasons on aging turf, and check the attendance in July. Then we will talk about the popularity of soccer in the South.

Right now we are just talking about the hot new ticket in town in a cool new venue enjoying a playoff run because of investor spending sprees on managers and players for the first couple of years — with MLS approving the transfers to hopefully perpetuate the belief you’ve cited.
 
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ATL is incredibly bandwagon and really only support their teams when winning vs say Philadelphia or Chicago or Boston.

I don't think MLS necessarily needs ATL to have 70k fans per game but if they are consistently 30k that's great for MLS and that franchise. Of course Portland, Seattle, and KC are the MLS franchises all the others really need to model themselves after. Seattle's attendance has been great since the start of the franchise in MLS. Portland and KC get great (and knowledgeable) crowds as well. What will kill MLS and the fan base is if you start getting more owners like Precourt wanting to move teams and hold cities hostage for the latest greatest soccer stadium.

As far as EPL per capita viewership, there are a ton of soccer fans in Tulsa in general. I think I watched at least parts of all 4 games on Saturday. I thought NBC was crazy when they started this a few years ago but now I'd be pissed if they stopped. Everyone noticed that Fox went out and got Bundesliga rights and now ESPN has Serie A games. You only do that if you know you have a certain audience in place and can get the right advertisers for that audience.
 
I'm well aware of the popularity of soccer in the South, but there's also a strong anti-soccer sentiment. Just check the twitter responses for ATL United's beat writers last night. There are people who hate the sport with the ferocity of a TU faculty member discussing our football team. You also have to consider that this isn't some Man City/Chivas exhibition, it's a domestic league game featuring a team that didn't even exist 2 years ago. It's a big deal.
It sounds like you think I disagree with you. I don’t. But for the sake of discussion, not argument, It’s a good thing to see such success. I just don’t think it is a huge big deal like the MLS fan boys and the broadcast make it out to be. It wasn’t a surprise.

First, Americans will watch two guys install dual sinks in a master bedroom if there is a winner to be declared and they can identify with the winner. You know this to be true if you are old enough to remember the Soviet chess matches on national television. More over, ATL is a notorious bandwagon town.

Second, the interest in Southern soccer isn’t that recent. Chattanooga of all places was getting sell out crowds in excess of 10,000 in effing July a few years ago. Now that raised eyebrows.

Third, the casual fans, and there were plenty of them last night, are there because of the new venue and low prices. You don’t to look farther than the Braves and NASCAR in the same town to see a crappy venue and high prices will keep folks at home. So I’m afraid you are going to have to wait 10 years before anyone declares Atlanta a soccer town.

after the paint dries, given them a couple of losing seasons on aging turf, and check the attendance in July. Then we will talk about the popularity of soccer in the South.

Right now we are just talking about the hot new ticket in town in a cool new venue enjoying a playoff run because of investor spending sprees on managers and players for the first couple of years — with MLS approving the transfers to hopefully perpetuate the belief you’ve cited.

I'm from Tulsa, but have lived in the ATL for 10 years now, and I've never really experienced anything like this grassroots fandom that has been built over the last couple of years. It's a different type of energy and a different type of fan. These aren't your typical fans of the Falcons and Braves, although there is some overlap. It is a diverse fanbase that is rabid. When the announcers say that every fan stands for the full 90 minutes, they aren't kidding. It is raucous.

I've only been to one match so far, but it was by far the most electric sports environment I have ever seen.
 
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