Joy Hofmeister

[drboobay]

Delighted she is running. She is exactly the kind of non partisan solutions based candidate I look for.

As a matter of fact she will probably be the second candidate ever I would donate to, the other being John Kasich.

Stitt is an a hole and ideologue who is acting like an emperor not a governor.

 

[lawpoke87]

She’s going to face some strong headwinds in 2022 running as a Dem in Oklahoma. Don’t like her chances.

 

[drboobay]

You are right. But all I can do is stand up against his kind until people listen. Glad she is willing to take up the mantle.

 

[drboobay]

My biggest problem with Stitt is that he does not want to consider viewpoints other than his own. It is seen in his personnel moves and board nominations - do exactly as I say and think exactly as I think or go. That is a dangerous mentality and I suspect is a marker of low intelligence on his part. He has a very narrow view of the world that borders on dogmatic and is resistant to new information.

Unfortunately he is not alone. He reflects to a large part what the Republican party has become. And the so-called "progressive" believers in woke culture are another flavor of the same but with a different dogma.

The world is complicated and no grand political philosophy really works to navigate it.

 

[lawpoke87]

Can’t speak to his mentality but low intelligence characterization is not accurate. I do believe one of the problems many politicians have who came directly from successful business careers is they are accustomed to being the sole decision maker. Building a consensus is not in their wheel house. We see this time and time again. Some adjust while others do not.

 

[drboobay]

He is baffling to me. Why get fixated on McGirt? Why go after the tribes on gambling compacts? Why appoint people to jobs and boards and pull them at the first sign of dissent? Why fight schools that simply want to keep kids and staff safe? This is certainly consistent with a rigid mind and world view if not low intelligence.

 

[Gold*]

She’s the best candidate to run as a Democrat since Brad Henry. I’m glad she’s doing it. Stitt is awful. He’s petty, makes bizarre decisions mentioned above, and does nothing but pander to extremist interests. While I agree it’s a tough hill, at some point playing to the Dahm/ Lahmeyer crowd isn’t good politics. This state is way more diverse than that openly racist and fascist crowd.

There was some talk the tribes recruited her to run as a Democrat and would also recruit a nutty right wing candidate to run as an independent. Step one has happened. Step two isn’t as hard to pull off. TW Shannon might just need to make a comeback. Todd Lamb 2022! Can Tiger King run from prison?

Say what you will about the Democrats, the failure to have two legitimate parties in this state cripples politics. There need to be consequences for being as terrible as Stitt is. I didn’t think it could get worse than Fallin, but she and her husband at least had a functioning understanding of law and civics. The tort reform stuff was ugly when it happened, but there are laws that came out of that have dramatically improved the practice of law in this state, like 2011.1 and initial disclosures.

I can’t think of a single good thing Stitt has done. Instead, he’s pissed off the tribes needlessly, appointed some piss poor judges (at times), and gotten himself embroiled in the Epic mess and on the obviously wrong side of it. He’s among the worst politicians in memory just from an optics and understanding point. There needs to be a remedy for being this epically terrible.

 

[lawpoke87]

1). McGirt is a cluster. Not sure what Stitt thinks he’s going to accomplish there tho
2). Tax revenue. Oklahoma gave the tribes a sweetheart deal on gambling. Those casinos now bring in billions of dollars a year. I understand trying to bring the state’s portion more in line with the pacts of other states. Valid arguments on both sides
3). He’s been absolutely wrong in his dismissal of appointees. No excuse for his actions.
4). Masks on kids. Have no problem with schools allowing masks. Don’t believe cloth masks especially on children are a significant factor in the spread of Covid. My 13 year old can wear a mask without any issues. My 11 and especially 7 year old struggles. I’m against schools (especially grade schools) forcing kids to wear masks for the reason stated.

Last poll I’ve seen had Stitt with a 59% approval rating among registered voters. Assume that puts him in the low to mid 60s among those who will vote next November. Something drastic will have to change for him not to win….which is possible

 

[Gold*]

Trying to bar schools from ordering masks might be a criminal act. The ADA argument is damn good. The schools have to protect everyone.

The man doesn’t believe in public schools or compulsory vaccination. It’s a bizarre set of issues. I question the polls here. Everyone I know hates him.

 

[drboobay]

Trying to bar schools from ordering masks might be a criminal act. The ADA argument is damn good. The schools have to protect everyone.

The man doesn’t believe in public schools or compulsory vaccination. It’s a bizarre set of issues. I question the polls here. Everyone I know hates him.

This is every bit as extreme as saying fossil fuel companies are evil and should be punished Immediately. I wish people could see that.

 

[Li'l Eric Coley]

You guys know LEC loves him some politics. Stitt’s a trainwreck. Why do most Republican politicians in this state hate public education so much? I’ll never understand it.

Good on Joy for fighting the good fight. Wait till those Paid For ads by the tribes come out. They gonna drop a hammer. Stitt will be exposed for the breeder POS idiot he is. — the anti-Rippin

 

[lawpoke87]

Haven’t we increased funding for public education (k-12) by almost $1B since 2018? The largest increase in state history

 

[drboobay]

Haven’t we increased funding for public education (k-12) by almost $1B since 2018? The largest increase in state history

Certain people, some initialed KS and DT and some not, do a few good things but are sufficiently toxic in their leadership that it really doesn't matter they do some good things.

 

[lawpoke87]

Certain people, some initialed KS and DT and some not, do a few good things but are sufficiently toxic in their leadership that it really doesn't matter they do some good things.

Not saying it doesn’t. I am saying that if you’re going to make the blanket statement that Stitt hates public education you might acknowledge he has increased funding for the same more than any governor in our state’s history…and by a large margin.

 

[TULSARISING]

Would love for a blue dog Democrat to get in and give it a shot , Stitt is a moron , why on earth would you ban schools from trying to keep kids and teachers safe?

 

[lawpoke87]

Would love for a blue dog Democrat to get in and give it a shot , Stitt is a moron , why on earth would you ban schools from trying to keep kids and teachers safe?

Are you referring to prohibiting schools from mandating that all students wear masks?

 

[drboobay]

Are you referring to prohibiting schools from mandating that all students wear masks?

I was referring to that.

Leave it in the hands of public health officials and school districts. The OK legislature is as foolish as Stitt on this point. Nobody enjoys wearing masks but eliminating a public health tool is dogmatic. Some things require collective action such as fighting pandemics.

 

[lawpoke87]

I was referring to that.

Leave it in the hands of public health officials and school districts. The OK legislature is as foolish as Stitt on this point. Nobody enjoys wearing masks but eliminating a public health tool is dogmatic. Some things require collective action such as fighting pandemics.

1). I have seen nothing to indicate cloth or ear loop masks provide any significant protection in real world situations. If there are real world studies (not clinical) showing a significant benefit then my opinion would obvious change. I do understand they make people feel safer.

2). I remain opposed to blanket mask mandates in schools. I wouldn’t be opposed to a mask mandate for a certain age and up. Like many rules imposed by bureaucrats they tend to be overly broad and fail to take into account individual or even group specifics. Having been in a classroom of 7 year olds trying to wear masks I see absolutely zero benefit (even if masks were effective). Kids are taking them off. Rubbing them on desks, books and even each other. It was a cluster. Now high school kids are a different story.

Full disclosure….as a father of a seven year old I’m probably a bit biased against mandates for young children knowing how he struggles with wearing them.

We absolutely know that people with a certain BMI and over are at a much greater risk from Covid. Maybe it’s time to introduce one hour of mandatory physical activity in our schools for all ages. Maybe large companies should be required to employ a dietician to counsel its employees along with getting them vaccinated. We are a country of fat out of shape individuals. Everyone would be better off with more of a focus on health and exercise even aside from the Covid concerns. Curiously, there has been very little discussion on an area we know for a fact makes people safer.

 

[Gold*]

Haven’t we increased funding for public education (k-12) by almost $1B since 2018? The largest increase in

Haven’t we increased funding for public education (k-12) by almost $1B since 2018? The largest increase in state history

Also, tax revenues are up in a period of inflation and a hyper charged economy. Some dip$hits are going to argue we need to cut taxes more. That’s dumb. Money is worth less and tax cuts have clearly harmed all government services in this state.

Call any state agency and you know what I mean.

$1 billion dollars is a drop in the bucket when you haven’t funded education properly for generations and the starting salary in TPS is poverty level for Tulsa. There is immeasurable need and decades of horrible and tragic mistakes.

Anyone who thinks more Stitt is the answer to fix any of this needs to lose their right to vote. He supported Epic, which literally lined the pockets of thieves with millions of dollars of that billion dollar increase. He can rot in hell, as can anyone who supports him.

 

[Gold*]

1). I have seen nothing to indicate cloth or ear loop masks provide any significant protection in real world situations. If there are real world studies (not clinical) showing a significant benefit then my opinion would obvious change. I do understand they make people feel safer.

2). I remain opposed to blanket mask mandates in schools. I wouldn’t be opposed to a mask mandate for a certain age and up. Like many rules imposed by bureaucrats they tend to be overly broad and fail to take into account individual or even group specifics. Having been in a classroom of 7 year olds trying to wear masks I see absolutely zero benefit (even if masks were effective). Kids are taking them off. Rubbing them on desks, books and even each other. It was a cluster. Now high school kids are a different story.

Full disclosure….as a father of a seven year old I’m probably a bit biased against mandates for young children knowing how he struggles with wearing them.

We absolutely know that people with a certain BMI and over are at a much greater risk from Covid. Maybe it’s time to introduce one hour of mandatory physical activity in our schools for all ages. Maybe large companies should be required to employ a dietician to counsel its employees along with getting them vaccinated. We are a country of fat out of shape individuals. Everyone would be better off with more of a focus on health and exercise even aside from the Covid concerns. Curiously, there has been very little discussion on an area we know for a fact makes people safer.

My six year old has no real problem with masks. It’s not her favorite thing, but she had been taught the value exceeds the risks.

There is significant data that masks saved lives the last two years. It’s also a respect you pay to people you meet when you’re in their place. Also, if your kid under 12 can’t can’t get vaccinated, there isn’t really another option.

A lot of this has to do with the way you teach your children to respect others and value health. This shouldn’t be politicized. Our school stayed open all last year with few cases and people wore masks all the time. I don’t know why you’d mess with what works. Especially when the people pushing for the change 1) categorically don’t believe in public education because of vaccination requirements (Kevin’s tit) and 2) don’t believe in vaccines because they couldn’t pass a basic biology or math class.

 

[drboobay]

1). I have seen nothing to indicate cloth or ear loop masks provide any significant protection in real world situations. If there are real world studies (not clinical) showing a significant benefit then my opinion would obvious change. I do understand they make people feel safer.

2). I remain opposed to blanket mask mandates in schools. I wouldn’t be opposed to a mask mandate for a certain age and up. Like many rules imposed by bureaucrats they tend to be overly broad and fail to take into account individual or even group specifics. Having been in a classroom of 7 year olds trying to wear masks I see absolutely zero benefit (even if masks were effective). Kids are taking them off. Rubbing them on desks, books and even each other. It was a cluster. Now high school kids are a different story.

Full disclosure….as a father of a seven year old I’m probably a bit biased against mandates for young children knowing how he struggles with wearing them.

We absolutely know that people with a certain BMI and over are at a much greater risk from Covid. Maybe it’s time to introduce one hour of mandatory physical activity in our schools for all ages. Maybe large companies should be required to employ a dietician to counsel its employees along with getting them vaccinated. We are a country of fat out of shape individuals. Everyone would be better off with more of a focus on health and exercise even aside from the Covid concerns. Curiously, there has been very little discussion on an area we know for a fact makes people safer.

I am not suggesting blanket mask mandates.

I am suggesting no prohibition of mandates. It was an idealogical move to prohibit mandates. Why remove a tool from the public health toolkit? It is a misguided attempt to pander to so called "freedom lovers" who I rather see as rigid minded and dogmatic thinkers.

 

[lawpoke87]

I am not suggesting blanket mask mandates.

I am suggesting no prohibition of mandates. It was an idealogical move to prohibit mandates. Why remove a tool from the public health toolkit? It is a misguided attempt to pander to so called "freedom lovers" who I rather see as rigid minded and dogmatic thinkers.

As I stated above, I opposed mask mandates for small children. If the parents want them to wear a mask then they absolutely should be allowed and encouraged to do the same.

I haven’t been able to find any studies on cloth masks being a significant factor in reducing the spread of Covid in a non clinical setting. Would you guys mind linking those studies? I see Covid cases in Oklahoma peaking on August 25th and then steadily decreasing despite schools going back in session and full of non mask wearing students. As I stated above, if I see evidence masks do make a significant contribution my opinion would obviously change.

I don’t anticipate you’re going to get many here defending what has gone on with Epic. Not sure I understand the inflation or heated economic argument. The increase in funding was done before the inflationary effects of the last six months and I’ve yet to see a red hot economy. We’ve experienced a few spurts but they’ve been the result of recovering from the shutdowns and haven’t resulted in a tax revenue bonanza year over year. Also, no one is going to disagree public education has been neglected in Oklahoma. Increasing funding from $2.4B to $3.4B over a two year period was a significant step in the right direction and deserves to be acknowledged. We need to continue in that direction going forward.

 

[Clong83a]

1). McGirt is a cluster. Not sure what Stitt thinks he’s going to accomplish there tho
2). Tax revenue. Oklahoma gave the tribes a sweetheart deal on gambling. Those casinos now bring in billions of dollars a year. I understand trying to bring the state’s portion more in line with the pacts of other states. Valid arguments on both sides
3). He’s been absolutely wrong in his dismissal of appointees. No excuse for his actions.
4). Masks on kids. Have no problem with schools allowing masks. Don’t believe cloth masks especially on children are a significant factor in the spread of Covid. My 13 year old can wear a mask without any issues. My 11 and especially 7 year old struggles. I’m against schools (especially grade schools) forcing kids to wear masks for the reason stated.

Last poll I’ve seen had Stitt with a 59% approval rating among registered voters. Assume that puts him in the low to mid 60s among those who will vote next November. Something drastic will have to change for him not to win….which is possible

My three year old wears a mask every day at daycare. It's required. My five year old wears one for Kindergarten every day too, where it is also required.

Last year when my youngest was two, she had a hard time wearing one all the time, especially when we first starting going back to day care. But she took to it pretty quickly once she realized she didn't have a choice. Every time she took it off, a teacher made her put it back on again.

Basically, if you don't give kids an option to not wearing it, they figure it out like anyone else. You might not want to do that, but that doesn't mean you can't get kids to effectively wear masks. You can, and if it is required, the teachers at their schools will do it for you.

And it's not child abuse to make a kid do something that they don't really want to do. If it were, homework would be categorically illegal. I know you didn't assert that, but some actually have, like Tucker Carlson.

Schools ought to be able to mandate them if they feel the need. Some rural districts with low case counts might not feel that it is necessary, and that is okay. But you shouldn't take away a major tool that a school can use if they are actively fighting an outbreak.

 

[drboobay]

My three year old wears a mask every day at daycare. It's required. My five year old wears one for Kindergarten every day too, where it is also required.

Last year when my youngest was two, she had a hard time wearing one all the time, especially when we first starting going back to day care. But she took to it pretty quickly once she realized she didn't have a choice. Every time she took it off, a teacher made her put it back on again.

Basically, if you don't give kids an option to not wearing it, they figure it out like anyone else. You might not want to do that, but that doesn't mean you can't get kids to effectively wear masks. You can, and if it is required, the teachers at their schools will do it for you.

And it's not child abuse to make a kid do something that they don't really want to do. If it were, homework would be categorically illegal. I know you didn't assert that, but some actually have, like Tucker Carlson.

Schools ought to be able to mandate them if they feel the need. Some rural districts with low case counts might not feel that it is necessary, and that is okay. But you shouldn't take away a major tool that a school can use if they are actively fighting an outbreak.

Exactly. I don't trust our legislature and governor to make blanket prohibitions.

We are hopefully hitting a juncture soon where few institutions will need to require masks.

That of course leads to the related issue of vaccinations...

 

[lawpoke87]

I’m still looking for any evidence that masks are a significant measure for reducing the spread of Covid. My continued belief is cloth masks make people feel safer but have little real world significance.

Go to worldmeter.com and click on their Covid tracking page. Go state by state beginning the last week of August up to yesterday. Look at the trend lines for active case and new cases by state. Then compare those trend lines for states which have mask mandates in schools to those who don’t. There is no significant difference between the mandatory mask states and those states without mask requirements. Is this proof masks don’t matter in a school setting…no. Is it evidence that Covid trend lines don’t seem to be affected by such mandates…yes. Sample size is millions and millions of people spread across the country.

Vaccines are another matter.

Clong (or anyone else) as a scientist, what is your opinion here. Your my board go to guy for all things scientific.

 

[Clong83a]

I’m still looking for any evidence that masks are a significant measure for reducing the spread of Covid. My continued belief is cloth masks make people feel safer but have little real world significance.

Go to worldmeter.com and click on their Covid tracking page. Go state by state beginning the last week of August up to yesterday. Look at the trend lines for active case and new cases by state. Then compare those trend lines for states which have mask mandates in schools to those who don’t. There is no significant difference between the mandatory mask states and those states without mask requirements. Is this proof masks don’t matter in a school setting…no. Is it evidence that Covid trend lines don’t seem to be affected by such mandates…yes. Sample size is millions and millions of people spread across the country.

Vaccines are another matter.

Clong (or anyone else) as a scientist, what is your opinion here. Your my board go to guy for all things scientific.

If you really dive into it, the literature is a mixed bag. There are some studies that suggest they are highly effective and could even possibly be worn by COVID nurses during PPE shortages (probably not true, at least not practically). And some articles that have found that there is no statistical effect at all. It should be noted that the data quality of many papers has been poor, so it doesn't mean much by itself. Think of a lot of these papers as a political poll with a margin of error of +/-15.

All that said, the general consensus is that they are at least somewhat impactful and beneficial for casual use. In lab experiments, they are definitely shown to filter out aerosol particles and disrupt flow with certain levels of effectiveness which ought to provide some protection. A lot of focus comes down to fit and filtration efficiency of the material used, which isn't surprising. Properly fitted, a homemade mask made out of a kitchen towel was shown to have a filtration efficiency every bit as good as a surgical grade mask (not an N95) in one study.

Anyway, here are a couple of review articles. You can mostly read the conclusions if you trust the analysts to be doing their job. Part of the problem is that some are definitely better than others. And all require a proper fit. Even where mask mandates are in effect, a large percentage of people end up with ineffective masks through no fault of their own.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7784787/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7800735/

 

[lawpoke87]

Didn’t find the first one all that useful. The objective going in was to prove masks are effective and were only tested in a laboratory setting. The second article was more interesting. I wish they would have been able to include a non mask control but 🤷‍♂️. The testing probably came as close to a real world evaluation as I’ve seen but even here the participants know they are being evaluated. I did find the analysis “cloth masks slack evidence for adequate protection for health care workers” interesting and somewhat expected. Sort of mirrors what we’ve seen from the comparison of trend lines between areas where masks are mandated and those where they are not. Appears the type of mask and fit are of the utmost importance. The good news is even with millions of kids being back in school for the last 6 weeks we are seeing a drop in new and active cases across the country. Something which I’m sure surprised many.

 

[Clong83a]

Didn’t find the first one all that useful. The objective going in was to prove masks are effective and were only tested in a laboratory setting. The second article was more interesting. I wish they would have been able to include a non mask control but 🤷‍♂️. The testing probably came as close to a real world evaluation as I’ve seen but even here the participants know they are being evaluated. I did find the analysis “cloth masks slack evidence for adequate protection for health care workers” interesting and somewhat expected. Sort of mirrors what we’ve seen from the comparison of trend lines between areas where masks are mandated and those where they are not. Appears the type of mask and fit are of the utmost importance. The good news is even with millions of kids being back in school for the last 6 weeks we are seeing a drop in new and active cases across the country. Something which I’m sure surprised many.

Unfortunately, not here. 90%+ vaccination rate in town. Cases down across the board. Schools open, and we have the biggest outbreak we've had yet. Almost entirely amongst unvaccinated children in the schools.

Not saying that other places have bogus results, but here it has happened almost exactly like what you would expect. My kid's school shut down just yesterday because 5% of the entire student body has contracted COVID this week alone.

 

[Clong83a]

Didn’t find the first one all that useful. The objective going in was to prove masks are effective and were only tested in a laboratory setting. The second article was more interesting. I wish they would have been able to include a non mask control but 🤷‍♂️. The testing probably came as close to a real world evaluation as I’ve seen but even here the participants know they are being evaluated. I did find the analysis “cloth masks slack evidence for adequate protection for health care workers” interesting and somewhat expected. Sort of mirrors what we’ve seen from the comparison of trend lines between areas where masks are mandated and those where they are not. Appears the type of mask and fit are of the utmost importance. The good news is even with millions of kids being back in school for the last 6 weeks we are seeing a drop in new and active cases across the country. Something which I’m sure surprised many.

There's also this nugget in the conclusions of that paper, which is something both you and I have said on here:

"The psychologic theory of risk compensation refers to the concept that humans might behave less conservatively when they believe their risk to be decreased.27 This is essential to consider when creating policies regarding the use of cloth masks and messaging to health care clinicians regarding their risks when wearing cloth masks."

Basically, benefits of cloth mask usage among the general public may be somewhat offset by a false sense of security, making people engage in 'riskier' behavior. They definitely aren't a magic bullet, and aren't meant for lengthy face to face interactions. They are great for the supermarket, but not as great for crowded meeting rooms.

 

[lawpoke87]

Unfortunately, not here. 90%+ vaccination rate in town. Cases down across the board. Schools open, and we have the biggest outbreak we've had yet. Almost entirely amongst unvaccinated children in the schools.

Not saying that other places have bogus results, but here it has happened almost exactly like what you would expect. My kid's school shut down just yesterday because 5% of the entire student body has contracted COVID this week alone.

Sorry to hear that. I did just check New Mexico as a whole and they haven’t experienced the drop in cases other states have experienced. Bixby school cases have been decreasing for the month which matches Oklahoma in the whole. Fingers crossed that continued. Stay safe buddy.

 

[Clong83a]

Sorry to hear that. I did just check New Mexico as a whole and they haven’t experienced the drop in cases other states have experienced. Bixby school cases have been decreasing for the month which matches Oklahoma in the whole. Fingers crossed that continued. Stay safe buddy.

Thanks. One of her school friends is confirmed positive, and she has had "close contact", so we are quarantining until we get some test results back. So far, she shows no signs of any illness.