It's the revenue Oklahoma
- Thread starter eastcane
- Start date
On revenue, but slightly off topic.
I was for the one cent sales tax to education (scheme) until I investigated it and found that about a third of it goes to "public colleges". Boren has found a cash cow that gives the already rich school in Norman (and others) even more "loot". He already makes more salary ($440,000) than the POTUS ($400,000) and has several teachers on the faculty that make more than VP Biden. Now on top of that, he wants even more. OU has an endowment of over $1.25 billion btw. Its madness to give them even more. (source - Oklahoma watchdog.org)
Now I want 100% of that sales tax (if approved) going to the K-12 schools. The kids who attend public schools need buildings that don't leak, buses that don't break down, teachers that don't leave the state after a year or two. BTW, the Norman campus at OU that serves about 25,000 has a larger budget than the city of Tulsa that serves 400,000.
BTW Its all on public record.
How do you spell "misappropriation of funds".
I was for the one cent sales tax to education (scheme) until I investigated it and found that about a third of it goes to "public colleges". Boren has found a cash cow that gives the already rich school in Norman (and others) even more "loot". He already makes more salary ($440,000) than the POTUS ($400,000) and has several teachers on the faculty that make more than VP Biden. Now on top of that, he wants even more. OU has an endowment of over $1.25 billion btw. Its madness to give them even more. (source - Oklahoma watchdog.org)
Now I want 100% of that sales tax (if approved) going to the K-12 schools. The kids who attend public schools need buildings that don't leak, buses that don't break down, teachers that don't leave the state after a year or two. BTW, the Norman campus at OU that serves about 25,000 has a larger budget than the city of Tulsa that serves 400,000.
BTW Its all on public record.
How do you spell "misappropriation of funds".
True.. It is the revenue... But some responsibility lay with those govt officials going back multiple administrations who have spent like drunken sailors and bloated the state budget in the good times with little or no effort placed on finding ways to offset the highs and lows of the energy business.
Interestingly, I'm now coming from Wyoming which has the opposite problem. They built up a $1.8B rainy day war chest and now they refuse to touch it even though both the oil industry and the coal industry (which give the state 70% of its revenue) are in the toilet.
I'm going, it's not just raining. This is a hurricane! (not of the golden variety)
Yeah, but if you deplete your savings account then all you have is gone and your deficit is even higher. Better to just spend the interest and leave the principle intact.
What is surprising is that I saw the collapse coming 3 yrs ago and began preparing and yet all the supposedly smart people believed the gravy train wouldn't end.
That's not how deficits work. Surplus / Deficit = Revenue - Expenses. The reason you have a 'rainy day fund' is in case your state goes into significant financial trouble. I'm not arguing any state spends ALL the money they have saved, but when the O&G industry and the Coal industry basically gave you all that money, and you refuse to use it to help the workers and their families in those industries (as well as a lot of other state departments like education or transportation) then why are you even allowed to collect the money in the first place?
It's the same thing as these Universities that rack up multi-billion dollar endowments while perpetually raising tuition. Yes, it's good to have a rainy day fund... but when it starts raining you need to use it or else you're just hoarding for no reason.
Boren figures it's the only way to raise revenue. Income taxes have been lowered the last three years, yet it takes a super majority in Oklahoma, 75% of lawmakers voting yes, to raise income taxes, so Boren is attempting the only revenue increase he can influence as a college president.
A short-sighted bandaid that gives zero incentive to fix the roots of the problem. The income tax cut is not popular with the public and dire straits is when you can get public backing to make changes.
I am not familiar with how property tax rates are changed in Oklahoma. In Texas we're still waiting to see what surprise we have for 2016. For a state like Oklahoma that doesn't have wild booms and busts property value is more predictable so there should be some wiggle room on rates.
Rabid, I don't think any of the sales tax is for buildings or infrastructure. It's all teacher salaries on the K-12 side. A couple hundred $ a month. Everything else can be handled by bond elections and Tulsa passed the largest one in its history not long ago.
I am not familiar with how property tax rates are changed in Oklahoma. In Texas we're still waiting to see what surprise we have for 2016. For a state like Oklahoma that doesn't have wild booms and busts property value is more predictable so there should be some wiggle room on rates.
Rabid, I don't think any of the sales tax is for buildings or infrastructure. It's all teacher salaries on the K-12 side. A couple hundred $ a month. Everything else can be handled by bond elections and Tulsa passed the largest one in its history not long ago.
More bad news for Tulsa. One of the biggest O&G presences left just announced they're all but closing shop and moving people to Houston...
http://www.news9.com/story/31937933/newfield-exploration-to-lay-off-relocate-tulsa-workers
Chaparral in OKC filed Chapter 11 yesterday too.
http://www.news9.com/story/31937933/newfield-exploration-to-lay-off-relocate-tulsa-workers
Chaparral in OKC filed Chapter 11 yesterday too.
This is so far beyond some $5k raises for teachers still standing...
http://m.tulsaworld.com/news/educat...a95-c5d2-57c4-bcfc-01b928728c53.html?mode=jqm
http://m.tulsaworld.com/news/educat...a95-c5d2-57c4-bcfc-01b928728c53.html?mode=jqm
Another problem with the sales tax idea is that if the (already) rich colleges get a cut of the moneys then we'll just perpetuate the problem down the line. Boren knows this is just a way of siphoning even more money to his OU faculty friends in Norman to make them even richer off the backs of the kids down the street who go to our neighborhood schools. But those K-12 students can't make up for any shortfalls by increasing their tuition because they won't by law pay tuition. The old solution to budget shortfalls at the college level in the past was to bump up fees/tuition/room and board, but for some reason now, we seem to be moving to "free" public college. That is nonsense and if we begin transferring that debt load from college students to the public taxpayer, it will create massive budget deficits in the long run at all levels. The line needs to be drawn somewhere.
http://watchdog.org/192336/large-ou-faculty-staff-salaries-driving-student-debt/
http://watchdog.org/192336/large-ou-faculty-staff-salaries-driving-student-debt/
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I'm good with a wide gray area between no taxpayer funding for public higher education and free college...what I'm not ok with is the middle class and lower classes for all intents and purposes seeing nothing from the stupid income tax cut and trying to feed their families becoming more expensive on the other end.
Honestly at this point I think education budgets needing to be slashed in certain areas and not being able to replace positions at all is higher on the list of needs than $5k raises. On top of hating that it's a sales tax proposal regardless of where the money is going.
Honestly at this point I think education budgets needing to be slashed in certain areas and not being able to replace positions at all is higher on the list of needs than $5k raises. On top of hating that it's a sales tax proposal regardless of where the money is going.
I'm thinking of purchasing a new car in the near future. Somewhere between $30/$35,000. The new tax will equate to about 35,000 "extra" pennies I then would have to pay. That is an additional $350 I don't have to pay if the tax fails or doesn't make it to the ballot. But on top of that about 1/3 of it would then go to the already rich public universities like OU, not the elementary school down the street or the special ed class at the middle school. There is a reason why Boren was hired - a politician with virtually no experience in education at the university level. He was an expert at getting govt funding. That's why. Now he's just doing the job he was hired to do. Crooked system!
IMO
IMO
Not to quibble but I don't think vehicle purchases are charged sales tax in Oklahoma. Just the excise tax.
Yup. It's 3.25% So on a $35k vehicle the tax would be $1137.50. You also have to include the registration fee which I believe is somewhere in the realm of $100 bucks.
Not sure on boats and RVs...just did a lot of research moving to Texas to figure out if we'd owe more taxes.
Their sales and excise taxes on new vehicles are exponentially more than Oklahoma.
Yet as a whole our tax burden as a dual income family is substantially less than Oklahoma...no sales tax on groceries adds up along with other benefits. And we will come out even further ahead on federal taxes now that we can opt for the sales tax deduction.
Their sales and excise taxes on new vehicles are exponentially more than Oklahoma.
Yet as a whole our tax burden as a dual income family is substantially less than Oklahoma...no sales tax on groceries adds up along with other benefits. And we will come out even further ahead on federal taxes now that we can opt for the sales tax deduction.
Ya that's how the state makes up for not collecting income tax. They gouge you on sales and registration of vehicles. Same thing happened to me in my move to Wyoming.
Ya, but that's not really taxes you have to pay for living your life day in and day out. And when we do get new cars in TX we'll be able to itemize the sales tax on our federal return. Can't do that in OK since you'd already be itemizing your state income taxes.
Registration is really no different cost wise in TX. Just the annoying inspection step.
Most people would say it's made up for with property taxes here, but it's a wash for us with two incomes (and the elimination of two OK incomes taxed).
And I think vehicle taxes are generally going to different buckets than income and property taxes...namely roads?
Registration is really no different cost wise in TX. Just the annoying inspection step.
Most people would say it's made up for with property taxes here, but it's a wash for us with two incomes (and the elimination of two OK incomes taxed).
And I think vehicle taxes are generally going to different buckets than income and property taxes...namely roads?
Wyoming's registration fees are differentiated by county but in my county, the registration is
Factory Cost
x 0.03
x (1st year of registry =60%, 2nd year =50%, and so on until the sixth year and beyond which levels off at 15%)
So on a new $35K vehicle, the first year you would owe $630 then the next year would be $525 and so on. I think over a 6 year period you would end up paying $2257.5. Granted you do get some of that money back in the form of a federal taxable income reduction but I don't think it would make up the $500 or so extra (over 6 years) that would be the difference between buying a new car in WY or a new car in OK.
Factory Cost
x 0.03
x (1st year of registry =60%, 2nd year =50%, and so on until the sixth year and beyond which levels off at 15%)
So on a new $35K vehicle, the first year you would owe $630 then the next year would be $525 and so on. I think over a 6 year period you would end up paying $2257.5. Granted you do get some of that money back in the form of a federal taxable income reduction but I don't think it would make up the $500 or so extra (over 6 years) that would be the difference between buying a new car in WY or a new car in OK.
