Insanity on both sides

[TUMe]

The Great Bathroom Crisis of 2016

I. North Carolina: So do you have to take a copy of your birth certificate when you go to the restroom? What happens when a muscular woman is really is a woman, was born a woman, etc. gets pulled from a bathroom because she looks masculine? I smell a lawsuit. If you are challenged do you drop your pants? North Carolina should have left well enough alone. We don't have a giant problem.

II. The US Justice Department: Can they tell a governor to stop a state law legally passed [even if it is stupid] if it does not violate a federal law? Give him three days or federal money stops flowing? Shouldn't this be decided by a court? [Where it is now.] If there is to be such a federal law, shouldn't it come from the Legislative Branch? Can the Justice Department expand current laws? And what's with such a short period when two of the days were weekend?

 

[astonmartin708]

The Great Bathroom Crisis of 2016

I. North Carolina: So do you have to take a copy of your birth certificate when you go to the restroom? What happens when a muscular woman is really is a woman, was born a woman, etc. gets pulled from a bathroom because she looks masculine? I smell a lawsuit. If you are challenged do you drop your pants? North Carolina should have left well enough alone. We don't have a giant problem.

II. The US Justice Department: Can they tell a governor to stop a state law legally passed [even if it is stupid] if it does not violate a federal law? Give him three days or federal money stops flowing? Shouldn't this be decided by a court? [Where it is now.] If there is to be such a federal law, shouldn't it come from the Legislative Branch? Can the Justice Department expand current laws? And what's with such a short period when two of the days were weekend?

I agree

 

[lawpoke87]

Crazy that we have to pass laws telling men they are to use the men's restroom and vice-versa. Even crazier that there is outrage over such a law.

Agree....insanity.

 

[astonmartin708]

Crazy that we have to pass laws telling men they are to use the men's restroom and vice-versa. Even crazier that there is outrage over such a law.

Agree....insanity.

Honestly, having a transvestite in either bathroom (men's or women's) is going to off-put quite a few people. As long as the person is attempting to be discrete (as anyone should in a restroom IMHO) they should be able to go in either restroom.

I think it's funny that the men of North Carolina would put in a law basically saying, "we want the drag queens in our bathroom. Thank you very much!"

 

[lawpoke87]

I believe the Feds are wanting to expand the definition to transgender when it comes this matter. Transgender simply refers to anyone who claims to identify with the opposite sex....correct? To my knowledge, I suppose I could walk into the girls bathroom at the local high school football game and claim to be transgender?

 

[astonmartin708]

I believe the Feds are wanting to expand the definition to transgender when it comes this matter. Transgender simply refers to anyone who claims to identify with the opposite sex....correct? To my knowledge, I suppose I could walk into the girls bathroom at the local high school football game and claim to be transgender?

The thing is, it shouldn't matter. If you walked in and began oggling girls then you wouldn't be behaving with discretion. Also, in women's restrooms, it's not like they have urinals... they're in stalls. There shouldn't be anyone walking around naked. I guess you could make an argument if it were a locker room... but as far as a restroom I think the entire point is stupid.

 

[lawpoke87]

You're going to have a lot of very uncomfortable teenage girls (among others) with men presumably with cell phones walking around and in adjacent stalls. Agree...pretty stupid to even have to address that men use men's bathrooms and vice-versa. Is there a large group of men who want to use public bathroom's alongside girls? I would be very uneasy about letting my 6 year old girl walk into a bathroom alone with a man in there or have her in there and then see a man walk in behind her.

 

[TUMe]

There is a simple solution. Have a large outer area which everyone can go to. It contains hand washing area, trash, mirrors. Then individual roomettes with dividers all the way to the floor and ceiling which any sex can use and which have serviceable [not broken] slide bolts. Outer area would also have changing stations for babies. Father, Mother, Aunt Mildred, or the Mormon Tabernacle Choir could wait in the outer area with the door to roomettes clearly in sight. No one is offended because everyone is treated the same. There is an electro-mechanical system to raise and lower them toilet seat, because women can break their arm if they have to lower a toilet seat. The outer area could have security cameras because sometimes a child might have to go alone.

This system would work nicely, however, it would cost the GNP of a mid-sized country.

 

[rabidTU]

"The world is fighting Islamic terrorism, starvation and disease, but the democrats are fighting for men to pee in the ladies room!" ---- Actor James Woods

 

[astonmartin708]

Homestly we're not talking about men though. What guy really WANTS to go in the women's restroom. If you've ever worked a job where you've had to clean one, you'd know they're friggin disgusting. If a drag queen wants to go in one, be my guest... That's one less asshole pissing on the seat in the men's room.

 

[URedskin54]

An activist DOJ pushing the boundaries of the law is all fun and games until we get a president Trump

 

[WATU2]

There is a simple solution. Have a large outer area which everyone can go to. It contains hand washing area, trash, mirrors. Then individual roomettes with dividers all the way to the floor and ceiling which any sex can use and which have serviceable [not broken] slide bolts.

Quite a few tech companies already do this. I was in one last week. Not unusual abroad.

I can name colleges where basically all bathrooms are multisex. Maybe not officially, but in reality.

This an overblown waste of time created to deepen the political divide over social issues.

 

[Clong83a]

Besides thinking it is kind of dumb to legislate bathroom behavior, there are other issues. I imagine going into the ladies room and taking pictures under the stall is already a crime. If not, THAT is the law that needs to be written.

I like the Bill Maher quote on this "If you are out in public and you look like a woman, go in the women's room. If you look like a man, go in the men's room. If you are a bearded guy in a dress, hold it until you get home."

 

[lawpoke87]

The Feds position is rather simple....we will treat people as if they belong to the sex they say they identify with regardless of biology. So, if a man says he identifies as a female does he then qualify for minority status when it comes to business assistance and aid from the Feds? Do the Feds now send a transgender male to a women's prison? Can this status extend to race? If a white person identifies as a black person can they now receive the benefit of affirmative action in regards to college admission and other applicable areas?

 

[Clong83a]

The Feds position is rather simple....we will treat people as if they belong to the sex they say they identify with regardless of biology. So, if a man says he identifies as a female does he then qualify for minority status when it comes to business assistance and aid from the Feds? Do the Feds now send a transgender male to a women's prison? Can this status extend to race? If a white person identifies as a black person can they now receive the benefit of affirmative action in regards to college admission and other applicable areas?

Well, they didn't allow Chelsea (nee Bradley) Manning to switch to the women's prison, although they did give him/her hormone replacement treatments and allow her to wear women's undergarments and makeup. Seems like the worst of both worlds to be living as a woman in a men's prison, but I guess they met him halfway?

 

[TUMe]

We had a President at TU who self identified as a dog. He went to Utica Square and relieved himself on the bushes. It wasn't a great decision.

 

[lawpoke87]

Well, they didn't allow Chelsea (nee Bradley) Manning to switch to the women's prison, although they did give him/her hormone replacement treatments and allow her to wear women's undergarments and makeup. Seems like the worst of both worlds to be living as a woman in a men's prison, but I guess they met him halfway?

My reading of the Feds position is that they are claiming its a civil right to be treated with the gender one identifies with regardless of biology. I'm not sure how they draw the line here when that line begins to hurt those of that gender.

 

[aTUfan]

all this to do about 1% of the population????????????????
even Catlyn Jenner wants to be just Bruce again.

 

[lawpoke87]

Obama administration just want all in and has dictated that all public Jr High and High Schools must now allow boys in girls restrooms and vice versa.

The Feds just created a protected class based on how someone feels....correct?

 

[WATU2]

Exactly what the Republicans in NC wanted. Take a issue that affects almost no one, turn it into a bigger issue in order to create political divisions. The Carl Rove play book. It got Bush elected, and in a strange way is what is energizing Trump, as people realize that backing Republicans on social issues has aligned them with a party that does not operate in their economic interests.

 

[lawpoke87]

Obama and the Dems playing right into the Reps hands with this public school blackmail stunt. Take a position which effects practically no one, throw in threats, and further divide this country. I'll ask again...are the Feds creating a protected class based on how someone feels?

Suppose when the eight years of your presidency produced record low GDP growth and lower median wages one feels the needs to deflect attention from economic policies toward threatening kids with not funding their schools.

 

[WATU2]

Maybe they played into their hands, but as President he is obliged to. Obama did not ask for this stupid fight, but he is legally required to respond to it. The state overriding the city to pick this fight only underscores the cynical politics at play.

As for the next 8 years, If you are a Trumper, go ahead and do it proudly. Just finding reasons to say you were forced to support him because of a long list of complaints about the other side does not make Trump into a silk purse.

 

[TUMe]

Talk about an "us or them" logic. Then turn around and if someone don't agree with everything Obama or Hillary does they are a "Trumper."

 

[lawpoke87]

On what constitutional grounds is he required to threaten children's education here? You're a lawyer...you know that comment isn't true. I'll ask again...isn't the grounds for action the finding that people can become a protected class based on feelings? Hard to believe lawyers on this board can't see the implications of such a position which allows a person to be legally identified as a certain gender based soley on "feelings".

Obama's position "we will cut funding for your children's education unless boys can use the girls restroom". The far right has come up with some crazy things in their day but this may be the winner in idiotic acts.

 

[TUMe]

Here is another thing about this order: It requires the parent to tell the school that the child is a trans-sexual before it affects the child. In a way, this is a safety thing so Johnny can't decide on Tuesday that he is a girl and go in their locker room. But like all laws it comes with baggage. Do we really want to start records on people's sexuality. What if with puberty different hormones kick in? Is the parent to reclassify the child? This is meant to solve a problem but can create more problems.

I'll stand by the title that I but on this thread. There is insanity on both sides. Neither the state with its law or the justice department with its directive can make a complicated issue simple with a rule. The best solution is redesigning bathroom floor plans, if something is needed.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

North Carolina didn't start this fight.

It was on a ballot in Houston within a larger question from the other side of the fence first and was defeated. Nearly a year ago.

So NC went on the offensive instead of waiting for the defensive.

Without that I think we'd all just be going on peacefully with the status quo, which was people who looked like women using women's restrooms and people minding their own business.

 

[TUMe]

Just for fun:

XXXX is a heck of an athlete. [Like Bruce Jenner was.] XXXX's parents tell the school that XXXX is transgender. The birth certificate says something else. Does the athlete play on the boys or girls team? Yes this sounds trivial...but it could make or break a scholarship or athletic career.

 

[lawpoke87]

Just for fun:

XXXX is a heck of an athlete. [Like Bruce Jenner was.] XXXX's parents tell the school that XXXX is transgender. The birth certificate says something else. Does the athlete play on the boys or girls team? Yes this sounds trivial...but it could make or break a scholarship or athletic career.

The implications of the Feds requiring a person have the legal standing on gender based on feelings is potentially far reaching and disastrous to affirmative action programs not to mention women's sports. You can bet that race won't be far behind if "feelings" can get one into a protected class. Lots a myopic party sheep on this issue

 

[TUBballJunkie]

Yes, it's going toward playing for the team you feel like. Fort Worth School's new policy...

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Lt...tendents-Resignation-378718311.html#guideline

It's frankly amazing anyone wants to teach in public schools anymore. So little left for actual teaching.

 

[aTUfan]

Maybe they played into their hands, but as President he is obliged to. Obama did not ask for this stupid fight, but he is legally required to respond to it. The state overriding the city to pick this fight only underscores the cynical politics at play.

As for the next 8 years, If you are a Trumper, go ahead and do it proudly. Just finding reasons to say you were forced to support him because of a long list of complaints about the other side does not make Trump into a silk purse.

I wish he would take on isis with the same effort.

 

[astonmartin708]

I wish he would take on isis with the same effort.

Meh... I have no desire to go back into all out war in the Middle East. We need to focus on protecting ourselves. It's cheaper.

 

[lawpoke87]

Meh... I have no desire to go back into all out war in the Middle East. We need to focus on protecting ourselves. It's cheaper.

Agree. Unfortunately, if we allow Isis access to the billions of dollars lying underground in Syria and northern Iraq it enables them to attack us here In the states. I would rather fight them over there than on US soil.

 

[URedskin54]

Junkie is 100% right. There was no issue until a fringe decided to push something pretty much no one cared about. Now it's a culture war issue, and the symbolism matters more to people than the issue itself.

And if we accept the premise that gender is separate from sex, wouldn't it actually be discrimination on the basis of gender identity to allow a transgendered man to choose which restroom he wanted but not allow a non-transgendered man to do the same? Confining it to sex doesn't even address gender identity, so how can it be discrimination? Is saying "people of the same sex use the same bathroom regardless of gender identity" different from saying "people of the same sex use the same bathroom regardless of race?"

 

[rabidTU]

I've been trying very hard to teach my little female dog to go to the pecan tree out back and get her to hike her leg when she does the old #1. Just wanted to see if she could learn it. But all she does is sit there and look puzzled. She wants to do it, i just know she does, but there is this disconnect you see.

 

[rabidTU]

They should call this "legislation" the Norman Bates (Psycho) law. You know, that was this guy who was his own mother!!!!!!!

 

[rabidTU]

Wasn't it Renee Richards (male/female tennis player) who started all this! And she found a way to become one of the all time great female tennis stars. Now everyone "hopes to change"------over!