Incarnate Word
- Thread starter tuharvard
- Start date
I don’t know when they started trying to compete with us, but LEC and I started making fun of them around December 2017 when they offered like three of our targets the Monday after their visit to Tulsa. After that, any players we are targeting with an offer from them kinda stick out especially if they have no DI offers except us. We’ve poached a few that way, though I don’t think anyone has decommited from them to sign with Tulsa. I’m not aware of anyone with a Tulsa offer signing with them.
But yeah we shouldn’t be looking to sign six or seven guys with FCS offers from schools that were D2 when Dane Evans was our QB. The only thing I can think of is that they might run the same offense and want similar players but I have no idea.
I know our coaches tagged along with some of their guys to a few summer camps their first summer. That’s how we found Edmiston. So it ain’t all bad. But it sure isn’t a good look.
But yeah we shouldn’t be looking to sign six or seven guys with FCS offers from schools that were D2 when Dane Evans was our QB. The only thing I can think of is that they might run the same offense and want similar players but I have no idea.
I know our coaches tagged along with some of their guys to a few summer camps their first summer. That’s how we found Edmiston. So it ain’t all bad. But it sure isn’t a good look.
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In the big picture, if we're comparing it to the past 17 years that I've been covering TU, "pathetic" is not an adjective I'd use for the 2019 recruiting cycle. In most years, there are a few signees where Tulsa is their only FBS offer, and then there are a few guys that have a P5 offer or two. Most of the class usually gets made up of kids with multiple FBS offers from AAC, MWC, MAC, CUSA and Sun Belt teams. The 2019 class is no different.
There are certainly years that are above average or below average. This class might be below average if I put the microscope to it, but on the surface, it just seems normal. TU has 19 commitments. 15 have multiple FBS offers. 3 have P5 offers (2 have multiple P5 offers). 4 have Tulsa as the only FBS offers. That's about average for the past 17 years.
I like Coach Montgomery, but Monty and his staff are not even close to Todd Graham’s ability in recruiting D 1 talent .
My two cents: Chris is right as far as the facts. I think we are all kinda down on the program now. It’s natural to hope for an impact signing at a position besides local RB as a signal that we really have turned the corner that Monty keeps talking about. When we don’t get it, it seems more bleak than it actually is.
You can take the Pepsi Challenge with this class and the last class of Kragthorpe and any of Graham signings. With the exception of TG’s ability to somehow always have one profile signing, there really isn’t much difference other than better coverage of the lower division program offers now versus then.
It’s like when they started putting kids pictures on milk cartons. The number of perverts or abduction incidents didn’t go up. Your awareness of them did. Same with offers from schools in lower divisions. Twitter has driven increases in small program coverage and that has spilled over to rivals. So we see the lower offers when before we didn’t always know about it.
That doesn’t excuse the TU-Incarnate Word road show and the perception that sends to high school coaches and recruits about our program and our staff’s level of professional contacts. And it doesn’t stop us from adding them to the Pantheon of Schools Deserving Our Disdain like Rice and Lamar.
You can take the Pepsi Challenge with this class and the last class of Kragthorpe and any of Graham signings. With the exception of TG’s ability to somehow always have one profile signing, there really isn’t much difference other than better coverage of the lower division program offers now versus then.
It’s like when they started putting kids pictures on milk cartons. The number of perverts or abduction incidents didn’t go up. Your awareness of them did. Same with offers from schools in lower divisions. Twitter has driven increases in small program coverage and that has spilled over to rivals. So we see the lower offers when before we didn’t always know about it.
That doesn’t excuse the TU-Incarnate Word road show and the perception that sends to high school coaches and recruits about our program and our staff’s level of professional contacts. And it doesn’t stop us from adding them to the Pantheon of Schools Deserving Our Disdain like Rice and Lamar.
Here's the problem...at least how I see it. Recruiting on an average level of our 17 year baseline doesn't work considering we joined a more competitive conference. Thus an average recruiting class compared to say ten years ago is last or next to last in the AAC. Hard to compete with UCF, Memphis, etc...with those types of classes.
Yes and no. Graham could find a gold nugget each year.
But he also signed a lot of guys who never made it to campus and some many guys at 6’0 and 200 lbs at any position (including a guy lined up at NG in certain situations) that it was the butt of jokes here, in sports media and at least one coaches conference.
Graham also had the benefit of academic waivers which this coach does not have for a variety of reasons both good and bad.
Comparing TG and Monty in recruiting isn’t apples to apples or even apples to oranges. It’s closer to apples to wrenches.
That's a fair analysis. My point really was to say that the current class is about on par with the average over the past 17 years. It may not be at the level needed to start climbing back to the top of of the AAC right now, but it's far from "pathetic."
True....but both of those schools have significantly increased their financial commitment to football since they moved into the AAC.
Coming in third behind ou and osu is understandable.
But losing recruits to North Texas, la tech, utsa, ... is not acceptable.
But losing recruits to North Texas, la tech, utsa, ... is not acceptable.
And even then often driven by factors beyond our control. Obsessive parents, clingy girlfriends/unplanned pregnancy, grandfather played at the school, grew up a ballboy there. Heck, in one case I know of years ago, probation prevented the kid from leaving Texas so North Texas got him. Was all conference Sun Belt eventually.
TU is the smallest school in FBS, playing in the best Group of 5 conference that’s getting closer and closer to being a Power conference each year. We have the resources that go with being the smallest school in FBS. Even when things are going well and we’re not dealing with economical hardships.
With that realization, we probably can’t realistically expect to be in the top half of recruiting in our conference. Where we’ve made our hay over the years is evaluating players that were overlooked, using offensive systems that are different from the norm, and capitalizing on years with exceptional senior classes. I don’t want to have a 6 win, 10 win, 2 win, 3 win cycle every four years, but it’s probably closer to what we should expect than competing for conference championships every year. Ideally, we’d go bowling 3 out of every 4 years, where one of those competes for a championship, and then maybe just miss out in the fourth with 5 wins.
As it’s always been, the most important thing we can do is keep as many players healthy as possible, keep as many players in school as possible, and continue develop players every year as much as possible. That’s the formula to success at Tulsa.
With that realization, we probably can’t realistically expect to be in the top half of recruiting in our conference. Where we’ve made our hay over the years is evaluating players that were overlooked, using offensive systems that are different from the norm, and capitalizing on years with exceptional senior classes. I don’t want to have a 6 win, 10 win, 2 win, 3 win cycle every four years, but it’s probably closer to what we should expect than competing for conference championships every year. Ideally, we’d go bowling 3 out of every 4 years, where one of those competes for a championship, and then maybe just miss out in the fourth with 5 wins.
As it’s always been, the most important thing we can do is keep as many players healthy as possible, keep as many players in school as possible, and continue develop players every year as much as possible. That’s the formula to success at Tulsa.
I remember in the 50's when the big schools recruiting classes were 50 or 60 freshmen.
Tulsa could only get a few freshman. We had a jv team of freshmen, transfers, and underclassmen.
The 25 limit helped us.
Tulsa could only get a few freshman. We had a jv team of freshmen, transfers, and underclassmen.
The 25 limit helped us.
TU never been a major recruiting power. Tulsa strength come from the players striving to play as a team.
At the time he signed, who was our best recruit?
Beavers
Cody Green
Charles Clay
who was the best player?
Glen Dobbs
Jerry Rhome
Drew Pearson
Willie Towns
Jeff Jordan
John Simmons
Beavers
Cody Green
Charles Clay
who was the best player?
Glen Dobbs
Jerry Rhome
Drew Pearson
Willie Towns
Jeff Jordan
John Simmons
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It's been unfortunate that when Tulsa gets a gem, they often don't live up to the hype for a variety of reasons. Don't make it in school, injuries, don't reach potential, etc. There are certainly exceptions (Damaris Johnson), but so many of TU's 4-star signees haven't panned out in the long run. On the flipside, TU has signed a ton of 2-star kids that have turned out to be superstars.
I feel like rivals has been more stodgy with 3 star ratings since Monty has been here as well...
This has been well documented, but I believe it was 2013 when Rivals changed their ranking system, which cut down slightly on the number of 4 and 5 stars, but made a big cut on the number of 3 star prospects.
Incarnate Word is not our rival. They just recruit good players in our recruiting area. While we try to land the 3 and 4 star recruits school like Incarnate Word and Texas State are finding hungry players who had to wait their turn and shine their senior year. At the end of the recruiting process those players that were over looked are now getting revisited. Now we finding the motivated and chip on their shoulders player thats waiting on a school like TU to offer. Then they can stick it to OSU, OU, Baylor and Texas A&M.
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For whatever reason, this statement reminds me of Willie Carter. I don't remember how the recruiting was on Willie's front, if we beat out anyone, etc. Hell, I don't even remember where he was from, other than to say "pretty sure Texas."
I think he's easily one of the 10 best/most talented players of the last 20 years. And we never mention him at all. Graham could find these guys. Or at least hire guys who could find these guys.
Willie was a bad man.
Willie was highly recruited. Had offers from Missouri, Iowa State and Houston. He committed to Tulsa in July of 2007 but then opened things back up and took officials to Iowa State and Tulsa, re-committing to TU in December of 2007. Was from Crockett, Texas.
Pretty Sure, TX? Ain’t that over there east of Cut and Shoot, TX?
