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Frank Haith

According to the Tulsa World in May 2019, he received a 2 year extension to a contract that still had 1 year remaining.

That implies that he will be under contract until the end of the 2021/2022 season.
Basically correct. In exchange for being a team player and agreeing to get paid the same as Montgomery, we gave him two more years.

Which really benefitted us at the time because we were in a financial crunch from the year before paying people $2.0 million not to be President, not to coach football, and not to sue us over a couple of different things. We needed a predictable and affordable salary number a couple of years out to be able to plan how to retire those short term unplanned expenses.

Montgomery said pay me I already took a pay cut, as I understand it at least.
 
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Basketball programs are comparatively cheap compared to other sports. (That’s why so many small schools have them) That will be the last thing to go at TU.
Generally, this is true compared to football. After that it depends on how you structure your fundraising and how you endow both the scholarships and the maintenance on the facility you use whether it is “comparatively cheap” at least in how you compare what you earn with what it costs. Compared to what? Bowling? Triathlon? The expenses aren’t even close. But neither is the revenue.

Tulsa has been pennywise and pound foolish and personality driven when it comes to the fundraising and day to day management of the athletic department. We are in the AAC but still doing a lot of the same things with the same people that we did in the late 90s. We needed that culture to get Title IX compliant and build out the Olympics. But those infant programs are grown up now. TU athletic administration needs to evolve and it will.
 
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Guys I have bled B&G with this team for 40 years. I hate to see us losing like we are. However, this team will have a very difficult time getting much better for some time due to the financial situation at TU. There is no money for sports, period. We are the smallest D1 program out there and and one of the smallest fan bases. We are fortunate to still be D1 in anything.
Your only hope would be to hire a promising high school coach or D2 coach and hope he can teach. Either way, I worried the days ofus competing on the national level may have ended.
I hate to say that but all you guys who want to fire Montgomery and Haith aren’t looking at the whole picture. Just my two cents.
Thanks for posting. I always value reading your perspective. I wish you would post more.

Please don’t despair. I know I am overly critical at times. But the problem isn’t money with basketball, it’s how we have raised and spent and set aside (or failed to set aside) money in the past catching up to us. Not to mention a lot of overhead for not a lot of value off the court and away from the coaches bench. Most of that stuff is getting straightened out.

I’m telling you. Watching this product stink it up is tough right now. But Haith isn’t only to blame. And I can promise you much better days are ahead soon, whether Haith is coach or not. Players are going to want to come to Tulsa soon, not just the ones who are a stretch and TU is their best offer.
 
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I’m still mad that they extended him. He didn’t deserve it at all when they did it. I will acknowledge that he performed better last season, but has again regressed to the mean afterwards
 
I’m still mad that they extended him. He didn’t deserve it at all when they did it. I will acknowledge that he performed better last season, but has again regressed to the mean afterwards
Attendance and total revenue collected is at its lowest point since the late 80s. If we didn’t have the TV money, we might not have a program. There’s more to judging his performance than winning the games and we know winning does not substantially improve sustained attendance. But it certainly helps.
 
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Attendance and total revenue collected is at its lowest point since the late 80s. If we didn’t have the TV money, we might not have a program. There’s more to judging his performance than winning the games and we know winning does not substantially improve sustained attendance. But it certainly helps.
Consistently winning games and going to the NCAA tournament will help attendance. To be fair it’s a gamble if whoever you hire will be able to do that.

We could get a Sampson or we could get a Dunleavy. You never know.
 
Attendance and total revenue collected is at its lowest point since the late 80s. If we didn’t have the TV money, we might not have a program. There’s more to judging his performance than winning the games and we know winning does not substantially improve sustained attendance. But it certainly helps.
As a double degreed Tulsa Alum fan I have a question. Are we at risk of closing our entire school due to finances? I know we have an enormous endowment one of the largest in the country but we have had a lot of negative news that may be fake news?
 
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As a double degreed Tulsa Alum fan I have a question. Are we at risk of closing our entire school due to finances? I know we have an enormous endowment one of the largest in the country but we have had a lot of negative news that may be fake news?
It’s not fake news. But TU is in good shape financially. How higher education is financed takes more of an explanation that you want. But here’s the cliff notes:

TU, like most private schools, is heavily dependent upon tuition dollars for day to day operating funds. Payroll. Benefits. TU had some unanticipated large costs, some old debts that needed to be retired, some growing pains, and then enrollment started to decline once US News changed their ranking criteria to focus on social justice issues and TU took a plummet. So there was a cash crunch. CoVid didn’t help, but we are in much better shape than 2 years ago and much better than disgruntled faculty, the Tulsa World, and some on this board would have you believe.

Residential education may be changing dramatically. And some of our best potential students may be foregoing uni altogether. So next Fall will be uncertain. But things are not bad. We just can’t get over extended, have major boosters back out of pledges, or have the bottom fall out of energy stocks due to the change in Presidential administration.

In short, we are fine. We just need to think hard on whether giving $2 to $4 million dollars to Frank Haith to not coach is better than having him coach, unscrewing how we fundraiser and plugging that money into infrastructure. He’s out performed the preseason expectations of coaches/media polls every year he’s been here except this one.

TU may fire him. I don’t know. But if it doesn’t happen, don’t think it’s because we don’t have the money or the institutional desire. Don’t confuse caution and wisdom with malaise or misfeasance.
 
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It’s not fake news. TU is in good shape financially.

TU, like most private schools, is heavily dependent upon tuition dollars for day to day operating funds.

For what it’s worth, the school is offering scholarship packages to average student that are considerably larger than what they were offering to outstanding students just a few years ago.
 
For what it’s worth, the school is offering scholarship packages to average student that are considerably larger than what they were offering to outstanding students just a few years ago.
Which is in part why you are seeing more walk ons accept on the football side.
 
You always have to buy him out or extend him a year. You can't do like women's basketball coaches and just run out the clock on their contract as men's players won't sign with a lame duck. . As far as money goes, we can hire a hot assistant for half his salary. The first year salary is never a problem with hungry young coaches that are using us as a stepping stone. Head coach in the AAC is big time.

As far as attendance goes Rick Dickson has seen this problem at Tulsa before. At Tulsa the attendance problem in football was solved- going from a low average of 11,500 in 1988 to more than 31,000 three years later by "defining our niche in the marketplace and working hard to market that" Rick Dickson March 3, 1994 Pullman Washington......
 
You always have to buy him out or extend him a year. You can't do like women's basketball coaches and just run out the clock on their contract as men's players won't sign with a lame duck. . As far as money goes, we can hire a hot assistant for half his salary. The first year salary is never a problem with hungry young coaches that are using us as a stepping stone. Head coach in the AAC is big time.

As far as attendance goes Rick Dickson has seen this problem at Tulsa before. At Tulsa the attendance problem in football was solved- going from a low average of 11,500 in 1988 to more than 31,000 three years later by "defining our niche in the marketplace and working hard to market that" Rick Dickson March 3, 1994 Pullman Washington......
Would you work at a place where every one else doing your job is making 3 times as much? In the end, the conference sets the market going rate for coaches.
 
If finances are as much as an issue as some here think then we might have to run out the clock on Haith whether we like it or not. Even if it means sacking a year recruiting (that should not hurt quite as much in this transfer era of basketball) it would suck to lose Haith’s next recruiting class as they might actually have some talent... but maybe somebody could come in like Manning did after Wojcik and put something good together.

We could get the same performance we’re getting now for half the price with a young assistant coach / low level D1 coach. Heck I think you could let Shea be head coach for 900K and see similar results. (By similar results I mean missing the NCAA tournament and frequently landing in the middle of the pack in the AAC)
 
Thanks for posting. I always value reading your perspective. I wish you would post more.

Please don’t despair. I know I am overly critical at times. But the problem isn’t money with basketball, it’s how we have raised and spent and set aside (or failed to set aside) money in the past catching up to us. Not to mention a lot of overhead for not a lot of value off the court and away from the coaches bench. Most of that stuff is getting straightened out.

I’m telling you. Watching this product stink it up is tough right now. But Haith isn’t only to blame. And I can promise you much better days are ahead soon, whether Haith is coach or not. Players are going to want to come to Tulsa soon, not just the ones who are a stretch and TU is their best offer.
Fascinating. You cannot just drop that and leave the room:)
 
If finances are as much as an issue as some here think then we might have to run out the clock on Haith whether we like it or not. Even if it means sacking a year recruiting (that should not hurt quite as much in this transfer era of basketball) it would suck to lose Haith’s next recruiting class as they might actually have some talent... but maybe somebody could come in like Manning did after Wojcik and put something good together.

We could get the same performance we’re getting now for half the price with a young assistant coach / low level D1 coach. Heck I think you could let Shea be head coach for 900K and see similar results. (By similar results I mean missing the NCAA tournament and frequently landing in the middle of the pack in the AAC)
This is all exactly right. Except the part about paying somebody half. Whether we pay .9 or 2.9 we are going to continue to see the same results until we right the ship and start having fundraising dollars work for us.
 
Thanks for posting. I always value reading your perspective. I wish you would post more.

Please don’t despair. I know I am overly critical at times. But the problem isn’t money with basketball, it’s how we have raised and spent and set aside (or failed to set aside) money in the past catching up to us. Not to mention a lot of overhead for not a lot of value off the court and away from the coaches bench. Most of that stuff is getting straightened out.

I’m telling you. Watching this product stink it up is tough right now. But Haith isn’t only to blame. And I can promise you much better days are ahead soon, whether Haith is coach or not. Players are going to want to come to Tulsa soon, not just the ones who are a stretch and TU is their best offer.

They’re bringing JR’s back? Holy hell.
 
Ed’s Hurricane Lounge has the catering contract?

We aren’t only bring back cheerleaders who graduated, we’re now bringing back sorority girls who didn’t get jobs and paying them?

Indoor Practice Facility. For video games.
 
It’s not fake news. But TU is in good shape financially. How higher education is financed takes more of an explanation that you want. But here’s the cliff notes:

TU, like most private schools, is heavily dependent upon tuition dollars for day to day operating funds. Payroll. Benefits. TU had some unanticipated large costs, some old debts that needed to be retired, some growing pains, and then enrollment started to decline once US News changed their ranking criteria to focus on social justice issues and TU took a plummet. So there was a cash crunch. CoVid didn’t help, but we are in much better shape than 2 years ago and much better than disgruntled faculty, the Tulsa World, and some on this board would have you believe.

Residential education may be changing dramatically. And some of our best potential students may be foregoing uni altogether. So next Fall will be uncertain. But things are not bad. We just can’t get over extended, have major boosters back out of pledges, or have the bottom fall out of energy stocks due to the change in Presidential administration.

In short, we are fine. We just need to think hard on whether giving $2 to $4 million dollars to Frank Haith to not coach is better than having him coach, unscrewing how we fundraiser and plugging that money into infrastructure. He’s out performed the preseason expectations of coaches/media polls every year he’s been here except this one.

TU may fire him. I don’t know. But if it doesn’t happen, don’t think it’s because we don’t have the money or the institutional desire. Don’t confuse caution and wisdom with malaise or misfeasance.
You always have to buy him out or extend him a year. You can't do like women's basketball coaches and just run out the clock on their contract as men's players won't sign with a lame duck. . As far as money goes, we can hire a hot assistant for half his salary. The first year salary is never a problem with hungry young coaches that are using us as a stepping stone. Head coach in the AAC is big time.

As far as attendance goes Rick Dickson has seen this problem at Tulsa before. At Tulsa the attendance problem in football was solved- going from a low average of 11,500 in 1988 to more than 31,000 three years later by "defining our niche in the marketplace and working hard to market that" Rick Dickson March 3, 1994 Pullman Washington......
If finances are as much as an issue as some here think then we might have to run out the clock on Haith whether we like it or not. Even if it means sacking a year recruiting (that should not hurt quite as much in this transfer era of basketball) it would suck to lose Haith’s next recruiting class as they might actually have some talent... but maybe somebody could come in like Manning did after Wojcik and put something good together.

We could get the same performance we’re getting now for half the price with a young assistant coach / low level D1 coach. Heck I think you could let Shea be head coach for 900K and see similar results. (By similar results I mean missing the NCAA tournament and frequently landing in the middle of the pack in the AAC)
If we extend him, we need to have the balls to tell him accept this low buyout for a one year extension, or you are gone right now. If we are in the same situation next year, extend or pay 2 millionish buyout, then can him now whether you(the administration) want to or not.

If we offer him a one year extension, it should be tied to a 3-500k buyout. If he succeeds phenomenally then he'll likely be gone to another school and we'll hire another coach. If he fails miserably, we'll take the hit for the small buyout. If he has mild success, can him anyway. If he doesn't take the low buyout extension then we can him at end of this season.
 
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Isn't there pretty high hidden costs (and some not so hidden...Especially in a non-Covid
year when fans could show their discontent by not showing up) in keeping a coach that
has recruited us and XOXOed us into total mediocrity? A year or two more, and a whole
generation of youngsters will not have gotten the "TU Bug' like we did when we were young
because their parents didn't bring them.....Being average or below for an extended period
is a really hard image to overcome....The second half of this season may well be the start
of even a lower public profile.....

Haith gambled in playing his transfers almost exclusively instead of working in his fresh-
men....Strange that he did that because they (the transfers) had obvious flaws that didn't
appear correctable in the short run....He has lost that gamble big time, and now team
morale has pitted, and we are being man-handled by the bottom teams in the league.....

However slim the probability, let's root the team home for a good finish.....There's more
at stake than just this year's won-loss record.....
 
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If we extend him, we need to have the balls to tell him accept this low buyout for a one year extension, or you are gone right now. If we are in the same situation next year, extend or pay 2 millionish buyout, then can him now whether you(the administration) want to or not.

If we offer him a one year extension, it should be tied to a 3-500k buyout. If he succeeds phenomenally then he'll likely be gone to another school and we'll hire another coach. If he fails miserably, we'll take the hit for the small buyout. If he has mild success, can him anyway. If he doesn't take the low buyout extension then we can him at end of this season.
No F*ing way we extend him again. Screw that. Kids aren't stupid enough to know that an extension with effectively a $0 buyout is not really an extension. If you think they can't figure it out, opposing coaches certainly can and will tell them when they're being recruited. A fake extension is the same as letting the contract run out except he might be able to take us to court and cost us more money trying to fight for a bigger cut.

Moreover, it's just a terrible look for the program. "Extending" a coach who might have a losing record and never gets near the NCAA tournament doesn't help put butts in seats even when we're not dealing with covid recovery.

Maybe if we don't extend him, he'll jump ship like he did with Mizzou and end up somewhere like ORU... continuing his downward spiral of conference affiliations.
 
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Isn't there pretty high hidden costs (and some not so hidden...Especially in a non-Covid
year when fans could show their discontent by not showing up
) in keeping a coach that
has recruited us and XOXOed us into total mediocrity? A year or two more, and a whole
generation of youngsters will not have gotten the "TU Bug' like we did when we were young
because their parents didn't bring them.....Being average or below for an extended period
is a really hard image to overcome....The second half of this season may well be the start
of even a lower public profile.....

Haith gambled in playing his transfers almost exclusively instead of working in his fresh-
men....Strange that he did that because they (the transfers) had obvious flaws that didn't
appear correctable in the short run....He has lost that gamble big time, and now team
morale has pitted, and we are being man-handled by the bottom teams in the league.....

However slim the probability, let's root the team home for a good finish.....There's more
at stake than just this year's won-loss record.....
The sad thing is, that the number of vaccinated start to outpace the number of non-vaccinated, they're going to be clamoring for social activity and we should be trying to put our best product out to market to seize on that opportunity. We should be having so many ticket giveaways and get-you-in-the-door events once we decide that fans can attend again, trying to seize on a social event market that will be rebalancing itself for years to come. If one of the first things people do is go see a bigtime college game and it reminds them of how fun it was to socialize in that atmosphere, that could be HUGE for TU locally.

If we could make ourselves THE show in town in the short term, that could reap benefits long term.
 
No F*ing way we extend him again. Screw that. Kids aren't stupid enough to know that an extension with effectively a $0 buyout is not really an extension. If you think they can't figure it out, opposing coaches certainly can and will tell them when they're being recruited. A fake extension is the same as letting the contract run out except he might be able to take us to court and cost us more money trying to fight for a bigger cut.
Unless he blabs about it, they won't know. As a private university, we don't have to publish anything about our contracts. You know that. We can even give him a two or four year extension with a low buyout. There may be completely unsubstantiated rumors, but there are always unsubstantiated rumors about coaches which are used by coaches recruiting against them. I imagine his pay cut which nobody has a real clue about, was used against him while he got Elkamil, Chapman, Dalger, and maybe Lenard.

I seriously doubt they will let him coach without an extension, regardless of your opinion. I'm not suggesting they extend him, I'm saying if the administration is seriously considering it, then do it this way. You can go off on it all you want, that isn't going to change the administrations mind.
 
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cont.

If he signs an extension with a lower buyout, then I seriously doubt he can take us to court.
 
Unless he blabs about it, they won't know. As a private university, we don't have to publish anything about our contracts. You know that. We can even give him a two or four year extension with a low buyout. There may be completely unsubstantiated rumors, but there are always unsubstantiated rumors about coaches which are used by coaches recruiting against them. I imagine his pay cut which nobody has a real clue about, was used against him while he got Elkamil, Chapman, Dalger, and maybe Lenard.

I seriously doubt they will let him coach without an extension, regardless of your opinion. I'm not suggesting they extend him, I'm saying if the administration is seriously considering it, then do it this way. You can go off on it all you want, that isn't going to change the administrations mind.
Unsubstantiated rumors about having a buyout that basically lets your school fire you don't hurt you as much in recruiting the season after you won a share of the league title. But they probably will hurt you quite a bit more in recruiting after you post a losing or near .500 record. The extension thing is so dumb. It does nothing but provide a faux public perception that he could be retained if he does well enough.... everyone and their grandmother know that's not the case unless his buyout is published. Considering the track record he has through 6 seasons recruits aren't going to continue to be fooled much like they won't continue to be fooled by Penny Hardaway at Memphis. If we cut our losses now, at least we signal that the program is willing to make a change. I don't care if no one signs with him next fall. I'll look forward to whoever the new coach were to bring in from their old school's recruiting / transfers / jucos.

If we "extend" him and he doesn't excel for a 7th consecutive season, we end up buying him out, any recruits of his are likely ask out of their LOI's anyway, so it's not like we're gaining anything by going through a whole new contract negotiation (besides incurring some legal fees). We might not have to let the kids out of their LOI's but then they're just playing at Tulsa when they don't want to, which is not something you want to saddle a new coach with.
 
You can look at Haith's history and find plenty of reasons to want to move on, but none of that matters anymore. This year, he had a good team and lost it before our very eyes. When that happens the coach needs to go. It happens to better coaches than Frank. Tony LaRussa has said, sometimes the message gets stale.
This kind of reminds me of "the year we've been waiting for". Wojcik should have gotten the boot after that failure, but TU let it go on.
To me this is worse. That team, in spite of our expectations, never looked that good. Not very long ago, this team gave Houston their only loss and won three road conference games in a row. That's a good foundation for a tournament bid, and we blew it with a series of home losses.
I like Frank and I wish him well, but it's time to move on. Today would not be too soon.
 
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In the past you lost a whole recruiting year with coaching change but Wichita State completely showed us different with the immediate transfer rule. And occasionally good November signees stay as in Michael Ruffin who Tubby signed but played for Coach Rob and Self. Jarius Glenn stayed also that Buzz signed.
 
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