Dr Gragg & Dr Clancy : 9 Wins in 3 years demands an explanation to the fanbase.

[Original TULSAFAN]

Correct. But that’s not the end of the analysis or even the beginning of the balancing test necessary to determine what level of loss is prudent. And then once that baseline is made, how much less do you spend as an effective strategy to remain competitive, comply with Title IX, avoid draining resources from main campus unnecessarily, while still setting aside monies for projected growth and maintenance in sports that isn’t covered under the maintenance endowments. And those are just the considerations worth mentioning. There are others.

Further complicating things, TU’s athletics deficit is not in a bubble. It relates to, reflects, and effects spending elsewhere on campus. The accreditation folks have no say in whether we make money or lose $190 million on football. What they can say is that here are the following programs that we believe are underfunded, their underfunding is having a fundamental negative effect on the baseline minimum of the education delivered, and therefore if you don’t take documented steps to fund it properly AND pay for people to track the progress and collect evidence to back up your assertions that you meet our minimum standards, we may be forced to take action against you. Oh by the way, be advised we can see you spending $7 million more than what you take in with athletics, please don’t tell us when we come back that this is still underfunded or you couldn’t find the money.

Now, TU has never received that type of threatening letter from the accreditation commission. But the above is how they roll. And the routine letter we got last year did note concerns regarding athletic deficits and underfunded programs without raising any specific concerns.

So we were given a chance to get our house in order. And we have and then some. And athletics is on track to have a zero balance before the next periodic review.

But we aren’t going to be building anything until the next review, we will be thinking twice and a third time about what those buildings will be used for, and it won’t be an IPF without a major conditional gift for two critical areas of need and an additional amount in other academic areas that will help assuage concerns from the people who are in charge of auditing our books and our academic programs on and off campus. A $5 million dollar gift won’t get you an IPF. It won’t get a coach fired. If that money is cash, it needs to be spent elsewhere, if it’s part of a proposed deficit, it needs to be avoided so deficit spending on programs can take place to alleviate concerns. Two years from now, a $15 million dollar gift or campaign would be close to getting it all done, if athletics has a zero balance and the academics have a clean bill of health. But for the next 18 months, TU has essentially pressed pause on the athletic programs and major spending. There’s just too much still unresolved on the academic side to allow athletics to draw that level of scrutiny and attention. You’ll see some exciting upgrades to existing facilities but no major building. People can blame the faculty for being anti-football as the reason why we can’t build what you guys want, but that’s simplistic. Academic compliance and bolstering TU’s position that it’s doing every thing it can to meet accreditation concerns is the real reason we can’t spend.

As I have said repeatedly...
Play big boy ball or quit pretending

In the meantime... as incompetent people ponder, no more $ from my household

 

[chito_and_leon]

Now, TU has never received that type of threatening letter from the accreditation commission. But the above is how they roll. And the routine letter we got last year did note concerns regarding athletic deficits and underfunded programs without raising any specific concerns.

The whole accreditation thing is such a monumental load of horse$hit. TU is not, and never was, in any danger of losing our accreditation. It's nothing but scare tactics from those who want to use it as an excuse to make changes that nobody would ever support otherwise (or avoid changes that everyone knows are needed).

Schools with way, way, way, way, way worse financial problems than us, and no real revenue stream, keep their accreditation until the bitter end. But TU, with healthy revenue and $1 billion endowment will lose ours? It's beyond absurd. But look closely at Huffy's post - he talks a lot of words and has lots of flair but does he actually say we could lose our accreditation? No. In fact, he says the opposite! The accreditation committee sent a routine letter that wasn't even threatening, but it intimated subtly that at some point in the future if we kept on the same path, they might later send a cross letter, that might sometime after that be followed by an angry letter, that might sometime after that be followed by a threatening letter, that might sometime after that be followed by some action. Why do you think the admin refuses to release the actual accreditation committee letter? Because their argument is a bunch of $hit. I think our old path was unsustainable and we need to make changes, but the suggestion that the academic changes or stagnation on athletics have anything to do with imminent accreditation risks is a fantasy. Again, schools with endowments barely in the 6 figures keep their accreditation but the committee will shut down TU with its $1 billion endowment? That would never happen.

 

[HuffyCane]

That’s what the TU faculty said about teaching certification loss too. And it was that type of thinking from Stead and his minions, doing things like laying off or reassigning the compliance folks, that started us down the path we are on right now and have to get off.

 

[jerandlaur]

You're right, HLC is concerned about money, that's what the letters say.

https://www.hlcommission.org/downlo...ion Letter - University of Tulsa 11.15.18.pdf

Oh wait, they don't say that at all. If they were concerned about money that would actually say that they were concerned about money. You can go through many accreditation letter from the HLC and see them specifically address money issues. But hey, apparently you, Huffy, are the one with the exhaustive information about the University of Tulsa and no one can question your encyclopedic knowledge of everything that has and will happen. Thank you for imparting us with the past, present and future.

I will refrain from engaging with you as you have proven that you and only you have the information and no one can possibly have anything more than you.

 

[HuffyCane]

You're right, HLC is concerned about money, that's what the letters say.

https://www.hlcommission.org/download/_BoardActionLetters/HLC Action Letter - University of Tulsa 11.15.18.pdf

Oh wait, they don't say that at all. If they were concerned about money that would actually say that they were concerned about money. You can go through many accreditation letter from the HLC and see them specifically address money issues. But hey, apparently you, Huffy, are the one with the exhaustive information about the University of Tulsa and no one can question your encyclopedic knowledge of everything that has and will happen. Thank you for imparting us with the past, present and future.

I will refrain from engaging with you as you have proven that you and only you have the information and no one can possibly have anything more than you.

Thanks for posting the proof that outside experts agree with the plan of action they are taking. If you look above this letter is the third letter I mention above, not the first two, which are much more concerning.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Let me give it to you guys in the simplest terms for those of you that actually care about facts and reasonable decisions:


1. Stead fires or reassigns a large portion of the risk management and academic compliance staff.


2. TU no longer maintains what some would call critical data on the effectiveness of certain academic programs.


3. Stead redirects those funds and more to pet projects and spending money on fundraising — which was remarkably effective and long over due. But it had external costs.

4. Stead retires. TU is remarkably unprepared for this event.

5. Orzak is a disaster. Time passes.

6. Stead dies. Time passes.

7. TU gets a routine letter from the accreditation folks.

8. Education loses teaching certification.

9. Accreditation folks send another letter saying we are taking a routine but closer look.

10. TU conducts business as usual.

11. Accreditation folks take a closer look. Highlight some minor problems, including education department. They say you need more compliance people. They also say stop spending money on building buildings and making up the deficit on athletics until you resolve these other minor problems.They also say things look great. You’ve done good work so far, we will be back in two years.

12. Anybody with any brains reads the letter and concludes that severe to harsh outcomes will result if TU keeps operating business as usual, including offering degree programs with few or no students and losing money on athletics.

13. Montgomery proves he cannot consistently recruit a QB except for one who didn’t originally want to come to Tulsa.

14. We keep losing.

15. Everyone doesn’t want to blame Montgomery or themselves for thinking he was a good idea.

16. Most of you think we need to spend $5 million hiring and firing a football coach and another $5 million on an IPF and academic/lockerroom upgrades.

17. Most of you remain willfully blind to the fact that forces outside the University and it’s leadership, ie the accreditation folks and certain creditors holding short term debt, say don’t spend money on football, stop losing money on football, tell them faculty to shut up and don’t build anything at least for two years.

18. Everyone gets on here and says we need to build and spend on a buyout.

19. Everyone thinks I’m an ahole for discussing facts rather than blaming people with their hands tied.

20. A few of you start to listen.

It seems that the one thing we do agree on is that it's not worth changing coaches as long as we have Gomer Pyle running the university and Gilligan in charge of athletics.

 

[TULSARISING]

It seems that the one thing we do agree on is that it's not worth changing coaches as long as we have Gomer Pyle running the university and Gilligan in charge of athletics.

That's an insult to Gomer and Gilligan....

 

[drboobay]

I’m glad Gragg did publicly address Montgomery’s situation. The “Monty staying” thread contains his interview with Kelly Hines of the World. While I don’t agree with Gragg’s opinion, I believe it is important for him to communicate that opinion with the fanbase. I thank Dr Gragg for that. Now I will be emailing him my opinion as a fan & 30 year season ticket holder.

BTW, I really hope Gragg is right & I am wrong about Coach Montgomery’s future coaching potential.

Absolutely I would be delighted to be wrong and see us win the West next year.

 

[astonmartin708]

That's an insult to Gomer and Gilligan....

Who’s the professor and who’s marry Anne?

 

[Tulsa_]

That's an insult to Gomer and Gilligan....

Who’s the professor and who’s marry Anne?

“The rest”

Hint: you have to have memorized the season 1 theme song.

 

[red dirt]

Major house cleaning needs to be done and it starts with the faculty and programs. Cut the overpriced faculty and programs. Reduce tuition and lower admission requirements. Get 6000 students on campus and recruit students that are from this area. No one and I mean NO ONE cares if we are a top 100 university.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Major house cleaning needs to be done and it starts with the faculty and programs. Cut the overpriced faculty and programs. Reduce tuition and lower admission requirements. Get 6000 students on campus and recruit students that are from this area. No one and I mean NO ONE cares if we are a top 100 university.

That's so funny, I guess me, my friends, and other TU alumni I know don't count. That's the reason most of the people I mentioned went there. Just becuz you don't give a shiite about it doesn't even begin to make you right. I wonder why you went there instead of OU or OSU, if it was so unimportant.

Nobody, and I mean nobody I know wants TU to become just like a million other universities out there. A top liberal arts school has a value that you can't appreciate or comprehend. Thus your opinion is of no value to those who do understand it's value.

 

[TU 1978]

Who’s the professor and who’s marry Anne?

We know who Thurston Howell III is...

 

[chito_and_leon]

Major house cleaning needs to be done and it starts with the faculty and programs. Cut the overpriced faculty and programs. Reduce tuition and lower admission requirements. Get 6000 students on campus and recruit students that are from this area. No one and I mean NO ONE cares if we are a top 100 university.

You just described True Commitment so you should be happy You also just described the vision of every directional state school. You're suggesting turning TU into a private version of East Central University or Univ. Arkansas Fort Smith (without the benefit of taxpayer $ or support from the state system). If your goal is to have a factory to churn out a huge pool of low level programmers and mid-level accounting managers to support Tulsa's vision of being a tech hub, then maybe it's good. If you care about TU, then it's terrible.

BTW, how many small directional schools do you know that have DI athletics? Schools like that have alumni who are largely unable to give in huge quantities and extremely tight operating budgets because they have to charge bare minimum tuition (who will go to a crappy school and pay a lot for it)? So just realize that you are probably signing TU athletics death sentence with your suggestion.

 

[red dirt]

So our existing alumni are giving substantial money? Not a valid argument because it is not happening. Also, I hate to tell you but there are numerous "mid-level accounting majors" that have TU degrees. It still does not matter what our academic rankings are today. Ask any high school student and they could care less.

 

[chito_and_leon]

It still does not matter what our academic rankings are today. Ask any high school student and they could care less.

Actually the truth is the exact opposite - top tier universities are getting a larger and larger share of applicants and accepting fewer and fewer. Being a top tier school has never been more valuable.

I'm aware that many TU grads today are in mid-level jobs, but today TU gives people the chance to do more if that's right for them. That will increasingly not be the case once True Commitment sinks in. TU will be a ceiling on grads' careers, which it is not now.

https://www.theatlantic.com/educati...its-like-when-your-college-shuts-down/591862/