Debate
- Thread starter TULSARISING
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A lot of things baffle you. Quit accusing me of being dishonest when I have not. I have said I am a Never Trumper and am proud of it, at least a couple of four times over the past year. Trump is full of s**t and does not go by the goals of the party over the last 40+ years. Don't rewrite the rules, lie 24/7, pander to racist groups, break regulations of self profiting from the office, & accuse other people of your crimes. Don't treat women, minorities, non yes men politicians, cabinet members, the military, and just about everybody else as enemies. Don't be the most Narcissist politician ever.(And that is saying something.) Don't pretend you support limited government, and only mean you want to lift all regulations, good or bad. Limited government has to do with a lot more than lifting regulations.
Realize that you are supposed to be serving the American citizen, not the other way around. Yes Trump hijacked my party and it pisses me off that Republican politicians let him. It is group cowardice. And it is ridiculous that you probably had a decent opinion of people like General Kelly, Mattis, and a menagerie of others, until Trump had a problem with them. He is supposedly a businessman with no real political expertise, but does not listen to his cabinet and/or his military advisers. He has had a rotating cast of staff, until he finally got yes men in the cabinet(or men scared of losing their job enough to become yes men) and he still has problems with them. He's even talking down Barr, Mnuchin and a few others down right now. Those are yes men, can I lick your boot advisers.
Politicians listen to their advisors way more than Trump, and he is the one that needs to the most. I respect Kelly's frank opinion of Trump over yours. And your following of a million conspiracy theories doesn't help the respect that you don't get from this board. I speak out the most, but you need to listen to the infrequent negative comments of those who don't say as much. This will give you a lot more of a clue. Also you need pay attention to the lack of positive commentary you get from the rest of the board. When you get a lack of positive commentary, that says there a number of others who are just being silent with their disagreement.
It is people like you, that don't think critically, and go with the latest conspiracy theory that are bringing this country to it's lowest point in a long time. And you think it is the rest of us bringing it down, jeesus. People like you scare me for the future of our Union. I have to think that there are a number of people like you, that if questioned 10 or 15 years ago about the problems that we now face would express an opposite opinion. Mention to them people buying conspiracy theories, the Presidents lying, not listening to advisers, canning everybody in their cabinet repeatedly, etc, etc. You/they would be horrified that was our future. The general WE has let Trump take the country so far away from normalcy, that we don't even realize what normal is anymore.
You see how this works? I push the button and you react. It took more time than I wanted it to take but I achieved my goal of exposing you for who you really are! The never Trumper finally coming out of the closet! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 You are a fake Republican, trolling leftist joke. You cheer as the Dems spied, lied, and divided our country bc your never Trumper silly pride and personal bias against Trump won’t let you acknowledge the stupidity the left unleashed on the country. Everything has to be a conspiracy theory to you bc if it’s not, your worst fears will materialize and Trump will be your president for another 4 yrs. Thank you for finally admitted to being a fake, bias, never Trumper troll! I promise you, I’m just getting started!
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You didn't get me to admit anything. I have said all that before. You pick conspiracy theories up all day long. I don't make them conspiracy theories. You are talking to me, when everybody is saying the same things aboutl you. Stop talking to me in your head and address the board in your head becajse I am not alone in my views on you. I obviously pushed your buttons. You just can't admit it. I just see you and the few others railing, and think I might be able to reach you, even though that is a fairly lost cause. (What does push my buttons is some of the possible trolls who espouse the same beliefs, only you express them with sincerity.) If there were any liberal freaks on this board I would rail on you both equally. I see you avoided the hard questions altogether(about Kelly, Mattis, etc.) That's what responses like your most recent one are for, avoiding the hard questions.
I am not a fake Republican, it just looks like it next to someone like you. I am a moderate republican. I carry the small government mantra. I carry the neccesary regulations mantra.(not elimination of regulations) I believe social systems are necessary, but need to be kept in check. etc, etc.
On the level of social programs I think it is necessary to keep both parties working back and forth. The Democrats push for more, we(Republicans) accept less-more. During their administrations Democrats push social programs a little more forward financially, then we come in and push it back. It doesn't work to have us push back from an in power level, 365 days every year. Nor does it work for them to push forward financially in the same manner. That's because human nature won't allow us as a unit, to make the proper decisions on social programs as a conservative group or a liberal group. It has to be push pull.
I am of the persuasion that it needs to be at a minimum, 3:2 Republican to Democratic administrations.(and probably more like 5:3 and/or 5:2.) I have said similar things before, but I don't believe I've said exactly this before. So this paragraph is a newly expressed belief., but for me it is not a new belief. I have posted about other things besides social programs needing to be push/pull before.(like regulations)
You are speaking from a position of ignorance on my stated beliefs. I say that not as a negative, but as a fact. You started posting on this board recently. I have been posting my thoughts on here for at least three or four years. You just haven't seen me post some of it because you weren't here.
I do this from time to time, to address you, aTUfan, Rippin, & Rabid.(when he posts) You are all the same kind of freaks who are bringing us to a less intellectual level of societal lows. And it is not because of your intelligence, but because of where you decide to focus it. Your mentalities are our low point, not individually, but as a group. There are more of you in this country than ever before. Used to be you were the loners, now there is a small to medium sized community of you. That is not good.
I am not a fake Republican, it just looks like it next to someone like you. I am a moderate republican. I carry the small government mantra. I carry the neccesary regulations mantra.(not elimination of regulations) I believe social systems are necessary, but need to be kept in check. etc, etc.
On the level of social programs I think it is necessary to keep both parties working back and forth. The Democrats push for more, we(Republicans) accept less-more. During their administrations Democrats push social programs a little more forward financially, then we come in and push it back. It doesn't work to have us push back from an in power level, 365 days every year. Nor does it work for them to push forward financially in the same manner. That's because human nature won't allow us as a unit, to make the proper decisions on social programs as a conservative group or a liberal group. It has to be push pull.
I am of the persuasion that it needs to be at a minimum, 3:2 Republican to Democratic administrations.(and probably more like 5:3 and/or 5:2.) I have said similar things before, but I don't believe I've said exactly this before. So this paragraph is a newly expressed belief., but for me it is not a new belief. I have posted about other things besides social programs needing to be push/pull before.(like regulations)
You are speaking from a position of ignorance on my stated beliefs. I say that not as a negative, but as a fact. You started posting on this board recently. I have been posting my thoughts on here for at least three or four years. You just haven't seen me post some of it because you weren't here.
I do this from time to time, to address you, aTUfan, Rippin, & Rabid.(when he posts) You are all the same kind of freaks who are bringing us to a less intellectual level of societal lows. And it is not because of your intelligence, but because of where you decide to focus it. Your mentalities are our low point, not individually, but as a group. There are more of you in this country than ever before. Used to be you were the loners, now there is a small to medium sized community of you. That is not good.
Awh, how cute! Why do you feel the need to justify yourself to me? Or maybe it’s just a cry for help bc I call you out for being a pretender! Either way, you can save your sorry Never Trump excuses for someone else! You are a fake Republican poser whose bias against Trump clouds your judgement. The fact you tout these former Generals as your hero’s speaks volumes about you character as a uneducated follower and point out your personal bias. Your hero’s represent a strategy created under Bush Jr of endless war and regime change outlined in their 100 yr plan. As Trump has said over and over and over, the plan was a failure and it’s time to bring our troops in the Middle East home! You either follow those orders or get fired! These Generals intentionally undermined Trump over and over. A soldier is apolitical and follows the orders of those individuals appointed above them.
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I don't care about them. Pelosi and Schumer have far more influence on my eveyday; they pass binding legislation that we have to live with
Biden saying he will end the oil industry (all fossil fuels) and support a $15 an hour national minimum wage is not good news for good ole Oklahoma.
Zero emissions by 2025 ...WTH?
Zero emissions by 2025 ...WTH?
Hopefully he is just pandering to the Democratic base. I don't think he would get much done on Zero emissions by 2025. Now on the $15 minimum wage, especially if the Dems take the majority in the senate, that is another story.
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8 to 10 years ago the political cry was we need to be energy independent. Now we are.
Never happy.
Never happy.
Im all about getting rid of fossil fuel but not without a plan. Millions who work in the fossil fuel industry will need to retrain/retool in order to be competitive to find other jobs or learn whatever new tech will replace fossil fuels. 5 yrs is not enough time!
The oil industry will eventually go the way of the coal industry because of the economics and environmental pressures. It will take decades. Smoothing the passage is being realistic. Selling alternatives as a source of jobs goes back to Gore, but jobs in that sector have grown substantially. That Tesla is worth more than several of the non-electric car companies combined tells you something.
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Not really. If everyone were to purchase an electric car the electric grid would shut down. The US electric Infrastructure would not be able to handle more than 10% of the current cars in circulation switching over. First you need to create and complete an extensive overhaul of the current power grid. That’s not possible in 5 yrs
I don’t believe anyone disagrees with you long term. The obvious problem is trying to eliminate or reduce the O&G industry by the Fed’s over the next four years would devastate this state’s economy.
An electric car costs 10 to 20 k more,, so balance that with fuel economy, and you break even
Even if the Feds eliminated all federal permitting, it would only hurt certain states, while it would be a boon for others. Pennsylvania, Oklahoma, Texas would all benefit because there is a tiny fraction of federal land. New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, North Dakota, Alaska would all suffer.
Agree. However, Biden said he intends to eliminate the O&G industry over the next 4 years. The Feds have a lot more weapons in their playbook to cripple our state economy than just eliminating drilling federal land.
A federal $15 an hour minimum wage would likewise cripple many local small businesses at the expense of large corporations who can automate and eliminate those jobs.
It wouldn't cripple small businesses. It would just cause large inflation on goods and services in certain parts of the country. What it would actually do is make middle class salaries weaker as things got more expensive at the bottom.
The real fact of the matter is, someone always has to be making the least for their services. The problem is the number of people who are making that amount and the fact that the least amount isn't enough to sustain life anymore.
How will they make the other hundreds of products that come from oil. What do we need to get to heat our homes or cook our food? What do we do with all the items that run off of oil; cars, trucks, trainn, planes, ships?
Planes are starting to make a shift, though slowly. Ships are transitioning to cleaner burning (but still fossil) fuels. Oil will still be around but the size of the industry will be substantially smaller. Much like livery industry. It still exists... it's just a fraction of what it was before cars.
My predictions is that the oil industry is set to contract by 50-60% based on the amount of each product coming from a single barrel (on average). Mostly because of the shrinking rate of growth in gas and diesel and improving recovery practices from the industry. They're too good at recovering oil efficiently.. If we need more natural gas for electricity production... we have so much of it readily available that people are having problems getting rid of it. Many companies are having to pay to offload their natural gas in certain areas of the country, much like they do with water.
People who don't have the capital to invest in automation to offset labor costs will be hurt. People whose margins are small will be hurt as they won't be able to absorb part of those costs. Who are these people...small businesses. I'm not against hiking the minimum wage. I'm against having the same wage in Oklahoma as they do in California and New York It's beyond stupid.
Planes are starting to make a shift, though slowly. Ships are transitioning to cleaner burning (but still fossil) fuels. Oil will still be around but the size of the industry will be substantially smaller. Much like livery industry. It still exists... it's just a fraction of what it was before cars.
My predictions is that the oil industry is set to contract by 50-60% based on the amount of each product coming from a single barrel (on average). Mostly because of the shrinking rate of growth in gas and diesel and improving recovery practices from the industry. They're too good at recovering oil efficiently.. If we need more natural gas for electricity production... we have so much of it readily available that people are having problems getting rid of it. Many companies are having to pay to offload their natural gas in certain areas of the country, much like they do with water.
Sounds good but for the fact that Biden's energy plan calls for the elimination of natural gas as an energy source over the next 15 years. Any Oklahoman voting for him needs to think twice. His energy and minimum wage plans will devastate this state's economy.
Meh. The industry needs to re balance as it did in the 80's and 90's. It got out sized with private equity in the late 2000's. A lack of investment for a couple years just means a boom a couple years down the road. Right now it's just hard times for everyone because even the big boys are hurting with perpetually low prices.
I think the bigger focus should be on closing coal power plants. There are still state utility commissions that are making utilities prop them up simply because of the damage their loss would do to state economies...
It’s almost like you either don’t or won’t understand what eliminating the O&G industry over the next 15 years would do to our states economy. Tax revenue, etc.. Such a scenario would be beyond bad for us living here.
It's an economy propped up by a dying industry. A dying industry that I have been part of for my whole life. My whole family is an oil family. Grandpa was a managing geologist. Uncle still works as an engineer oversees.
That's why I'm trying my hardest to transition out.... because the time's they are a changing, and I don't want to be 45 looking for a job in an industry where I'll just be laid off in a year or two like the coal workers are now. To me, 15 years is a 15 year headstart on trying to diversify Oklahoma's economy away from Fossil Fuels. A lot can happen in 15 years. 15 years ago, the Oil Boom was in its infancy and we were warring in Iraq for oil.
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Obvious you don’t understand what eliminating the O&G industry over a period of 15 years would do to Oklahoma and the people who live and work here. You also don’t understand that technologically isn’t to a point where fosse fuels can be replaced with renewables without energy shortages and extreme inflationary pressure.
Yes. This is a reminder of a painful recent experience in Kansas.
Has anyone addressed the issue that methane is 20 times as bad as co2. Which is expelled from trash dumps because we can no longer burn the trash
Everything a candidate promises isn't going to happen. Biden will be 78 November 20th. He changes his position on fracking as often as he changes socks. Says he may run for re-election in four years. Trump still hasn't built that wall completely and Mexico isn't paying for it unless you count getting stuck with the immigrants for now.
Fracking and more traditional oil removal won't be over in four years or eight or maybe even fifteen. Sea going ships are clean? Have you ever handled Bunker C? I'm sure they are improving but the ships need BTUs. Lots of roads are asphalt, if that goes away cement will go through the roof. California brown out will be back with a vengence. Just pull over at the charging station that Biden will build.
Politicians tell people what they want to hear. Johnson still hasn't got UK out of EU. I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.
Fracking and more traditional oil removal won't be over in four years or eight or maybe even fifteen. Sea going ships are clean? Have you ever handled Bunker C? I'm sure they are improving but the ships need BTUs. Lots of roads are asphalt, if that goes away cement will go through the roof. California brown out will be back with a vengence. Just pull over at the charging station that Biden will build.
Politicians tell people what they want to hear. Johnson still hasn't got UK out of EU. I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.
Methane from trash dumps is much less of a problem than methane from wells. Some Oil wells literally vent 20 MCF/ day in some parts of the country.
