Bernie is doing well

[lawpoke87]

Per the Economic Policy Institute:
From 2018 to 2019, the fastest growth continued at the top (4.5% at the 95th percentile), while median wages grew 1.0% over the year and wages at the bottom fell (-0.7% at the 10th percentile).

From 2018 to 2019, wages of the lowest-wage workers grew more in states that increased their minimum wage than in those that did not.

From CNBC

What has set this rise apart is that it’s the first time during an economic recovery that began in mid-2009 that the bottom half of earners are benefiting more than the top half — in fact, about twice as much, according to calculations by Goldman Sachs. The trend began in 2018 and has continued into this year,

 

[lawpoke87]

I think people are angry that we're pushing support into the wrong places and the overspending on pet pentagon projects / border walls is completely unnecessary.

Can we stop on the border wall when talking about spending. It's peanuts. You can hate on the wall for a variety of reasons but the cost of it as it relates to total spending or even defense spending which is what we're talking about here is a blip. Agree on pet projects. However, if you look at the overall defense budget those projects don't really amount to a significant amount either.

 

[astonmartin708]

From CNBC

What has set this rise apart is that it’s the first time during an economic recovery that began in mid-2009 that the bottom half of earners are benefiting more than the top half — in fact, about twice as much, according to calculations by Goldman Sachs. The trend began in 2018 and has continued into this year,

I can show you about 10 articles from 3 weeks ago (probably around the last time wage numbers came out) that point to wage growth beginning to slow again. (Pre-Coronavirus slowdown btw). I would take those most recent opinions over one from March of last year.

 

[astonmartin708]

Can we stop on the border wall when talking about spending. It's peanuts. You can hate on the wall for a variety of reasons but the cost of it as it relates to total spending or even defense spending which is what we're talking about here is a blip. Agree on pet projects. However, if you look at the overall defense budget those projects don't really amount to a significant amount either.

Bags of peanuts that are tossed in the garbage are still wasted peanuts... and when you put enough bags of peanuts together it adds up to a ton of money.

Also, most of our foreign military aid these days is directed to Israel / Egypt and is being misused by those countries.

 

[lawpoke87]

I can show you about 10 articles from 3 weeks ago (probably around the last time wage numbers came out) that point to wage growth beginning to slow again. (Pre-Coronavirus slowdown btw). I would take those most recent opinions over one from March of last year.

I'm sure that was expected. Europe has been forced to institute negative rates to keep their economy afloat. China has experienced issues. Silly to believe what's happening around to globe doesn't affect the US.

 

[lawpoke87]

Bags of peanuts that are tossed in the garbage are still wasted peanuts... and when you put enough bags of peanuts together it adds up to a ton of money.

Doesn't make a dent. Not that we shouldn't cut waste but we're talking pennies. Any serious plan to cut defense spending is going to have to address the major expenditures. Again....every time someone suggests these types of cuts people freak out. Even cuts which don't actually effect the defense of the US.

 

[URedskin54]

There's a lot of administrative rot in the military that needs to be cleaned out, and maybe some cuts would do that. It just seems like every time there are cuts they start with ammo and line personnel because it's the easiest way to reduce cost.

 

[astonmartin708]

I'm sure that was expected. Europe has been forced to institute negative rates to keep their economy afloat. China has experienced issues. Silly to believe what's happening around to globe doesn't affect the US.

I'm just saying, everyone isn't feeling as rosy about the economy as you are. A lot of people just aren't seeing noticeable benefits, and things are just getting tougher. Inflation has really been hitting food in the last few years, and then you add in medical costs, student loan debt, etc...

I laugh at the articles on the tightness of the job market, because literally every person under 30 will tell you how much trouble they have had trying to find work as employers move to only hiring online.

"In search of an entry level software coder with 10 years of experience with a programming language that has only existed for 3 years. Will pay $15 / hr" has become a meta reference for most millennials.

 

[URedskin54]

Most people are quite rosy. https://news.gallup.com/poll/1609/consumer-views-economy.aspx

It's darn impressive that Trump's personality is so repellent he's still in a dead heat against every democrat in this economy.

 

[lawpoke87]

I'm just saying, everyone isn't feeling as rosy about the economy as you are. A lot of people just aren't seeing noticeable benefits, and things are just getting tougher. Inflation has really been hitting food in the last few years, and then you add in medical costs, student loan debt, etc...

I laugh at the articles on the tightness of the job market, because literally every person under 30 will tell you how much trouble they have had trying to find work as employers move to only hiring online.

"In search of an entry level software coder with 10 years of experience with a programming language that has only existed for 3 years. Will pay $15 / hr" has become a meta reference for most millennials.

Seems to be a disconnect between job seekers and companies looking to hire. Everyone I talk to comments on how hard it is to find good employees. I do think the attitude of some millennials plays a role. I ( as well as others in my industry in Tulsa I talk to) have more negative hiring experiences with them than positive but that's not a large sample size and isn't intended to classify all in the group, i have a few millennials who work here who are absolutely fantastic and show no sense of entitlement or their piers.

American's are as satisfied with the economy as they've been in a long time btw.

 

[astonmartin708]

Seems to be a disconnect between job seekers and companies looking to hire. Everyone I talk to comments on how hard it is to find good employees. I do think the attitude of some millennials plays a role. I ( as well as others in my industry in Tulsa I talk to) have more negative hiring experiences with them than positive but that's not a large sample size and isn't intended to classify all in the group, i have a few millennials who work here who are absolutely fantastic and show no sense of entitlement or their piers.

American's are as satisfied with the economy as they've been in a long time btw.

In terms of millenial entitlement, I would say that's mostly a "kids these days" argument, similar to how the hippy generation were judged in the 60's / 70's. The generation as a whole wasn't any lazier than any other generation. They just had different ideas about how life should be lived than their parents did. Most of the people I know around my age (30ish) are hard working or want to work hard if they were given the opportunity and the reward for doing so.

As far as satisfaction goes, I think that has more to do with perception than reality. Hey, I could be wrong though.

 

[astonmartin708]

Perception vs. Reality:
The typical US worker can no longer afford a family on a year's salary, showing the dire state of America's middle class:
https://www.businessinsider.com/ame...i6M_qhFg4JbtKUuhOV_U0EZgPWioo2JupFq2fGLdZrs9U

People no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life, survey shows
https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/prog...er-shows-growing-sense-of-inequality/11883788

 

[lawpoke87]

In terms of millenial entitlement, I would say that's mostly a "kids these days" argument, similar to how the hippy generation were judged in the 60's / 70's. The generation as a whole wasn't any lazier than any other generation. They just had different ideas about how life should be lived than their parents did. Most of the people I know around my age (30ish) are hard working or want to work hard if they were given the opportunity and the reward for doing so.

As far as satisfaction goes, I think that has more to do with perception than reality. Hey, I could be wrong though.

Just from my limited experience most people by the time they reach their 30s have realized their entitlement is going to be a hindrance with any career goals they might possess. So they adjust their expectations and get to work. It's those in their 20s who know absolutely nothing about the business who balk at the prospect of starting at the entry level and learn the same which drive me absolutely nuts. If I hear one more time "I have a management degree....I want to manage" my head is going to explode. Like I tell them...how exactly are you going to manage people who do a job you know nothing about?

 

[lawpoke87]

Perception vs. Reality:
The typical US worker can no longer afford a family on a year's salary, showing the dire state of America's middle class:
https://www.businessinsider.com/ame...i6M_qhFg4JbtKUuhOV_U0EZgPWioo2JupFq2fGLdZrs9U

People no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life, survey shows
https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/prog...er-shows-growing-sense-of-inequality/11883788

Look at health insurance and college on that chart. Luckily, most companies do pay for health insurance. Someone might want to let the middle class know about that article btw....or not. They are pretty damn happy about their economic state.

 

[URedskin54]

Perception vs. Reality:
The typical US worker can no longer afford a family on a year's salary, showing the dire state of America's middle class:
https://www.businessinsider.com/ame...i6M_qhFg4JbtKUuhOV_U0EZgPWioo2JupFq2fGLdZrs9U

People no longer believe working hard will lead to a better life, survey shows
https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/prog...er-shows-growing-sense-of-inequality/11883788

When women entered the workforce en mass, wages and prices adjusted accordingly (and are still adjusting). Why on earth would anyone expect a typical male to afford a family by himself when that is no longer the reality of American life or an economic reality?

The second one...well...we've had an entire party working to convince people of this for a generation, all while the standard of living has risen to as high it has been in human history.

 

[astonmartin708]

Just from my limited experience most people by the time they reach their 30s have realized their entitlement is going to be a hindrance with any career goals they might possess. So they adjust their expectations and get to work. It's those in their 20s who know absolutely nothing about the business who balk at the prospect of starting at the entry level and learn the same which drive me absolutely nuts. If I hear one more time "I have a management degree....I want to manage" my head is going to explode. Like I tell them...how exactly are you going to manage people who do a job you know nothing about?

Yes, but what they're being advised to do now, because businesses rarely offer competitive advancement opportunities in house, is gain a bit of experience and then leave as soon as possible so they can get a raise / a promotion.

I just think the value of an undergraduate degree has fallen drastically in our society. There used to be a time when a decent degree meant a foot in the door to management (think young Pete Campbell in Mad Men). Now it means you essentially get to start out where you would have in the 60's / 70's / 80's if you didn't have a degree. The real kicker is that you now have to go into $50K of debt to get the degree, to get the median job.

In some ways it's not a sense of entitlement from millenials, in some cases it feels like you're working as hard or harder to get the same benefits from society as previous generations did.

 

[TU_BLA]

"I have a management degree....I want to manage" my head is going to explode. Like I tell them...how exactly are you going to manage people who do a job you know nothing about?

QTs model does exactly what you say should happen. That's why it has worked so well. They also don't really pass people directly into management roles preferring people who know QT, its culture, and its operations in fine detail, to move into those roles through natural progression and growth.

Wal Mart does not do it this way. Wal mart gives preference to people with degrees and who can read and adhere to a management manual. Wal Mart does not encourage innovation and new ideas from its employees, and you'd better not stray from the company line in how to do a given job.

 

[astonmartin708]

When women entered the workforce en mass, wages and prices adjusted accordingly (and are still adjusting). Why on earth would anyone expect a typical male to afford a family by himself when that is no longer the reality of American life or an economic reality?

The second one...well...we've had an entire party working to convince people of this for a generation, all while the standard of living has risen to as high it has been in human history.

By 1990 that should have been relatively priced in. The share of women in the workforce hasn't gone up that much since 85. 2.6% overall.

 

[lawpoke87]

Yes, but what they're being advised to do now, because businesses rarely offer competitive advancement opportunities in house, is gain a bit of experience and then leave as soon as possible so they can get a raise / a promotion.

I just think the value of an undergraduate degree has fallen drastically in our society. There used to be a time when a decent degree meant a foot in the door to management (think young Pete Campbell in Mad Men). Now it means you essentially get to start out where you would have in the 60's / 70's / 80's if you didn't have a degree. The real kicker is that you now have to go into $50K of debt to get the degree, to get the median job.

In some ways it's not a sense of entitlement from millenials, in some cases it feels like you're working as hard or harder to get the same benefits from society as previous generations did.

I know very few successful business who operate this way. New employees are revenue negative to most businesses for at least the first six months on the job. Some much longer. It is bad business to spend the resources training that employee only to see them depart once trained. Millennials do seem to be impatient. (my wife is as well ) At 25 you don't have any perspective on working harder and harder to not get the same benefits as other generations. You haven't yet worked "harder and harder". Get back to me when you're 35.

 

[TU_BLA]

I know very few successful business who operate this way. New employees are revenue negative to most businesses for at least the first six months on the job. Some much longer. It is bad business to spend the resources training that employee only to see them depart once trained. Millennials do seem to be impatient. (my wife is as well ) At 25 you don't have any perspective on working harder and harder to not get the same benefits as other generations. You haven't yet worked "harder and harder". Get back to me when you're 35.

The job market is weird. Companies want experienced employees, but they want to offer "entry level" wages. As one who went through the job change process only a year ago, I can say almost every opening I looked at wanted specialized experience at a non-specialized/entry level salary.

(Then again, I work in higher ed...they want MS and PhDs so they can claim their support and professional staff have advanced or terminal degrees, but they don't really want to pay them for that distinction. Wage growth for higher ed has been pretty stagnant as well unless you are one of the many who have a VP/Assoc. VP title and get to delegate your job responsibilities to someone who knows what they're doing).

 

[URedskin54]

Wal Mart does not do it this way. Wal mart gives preference to people with degrees and who can read and adhere to a management manual. Wal Mart does not encourage innovation and new ideas from its employees, and you'd better not stray from the company line in how to do a given job.

From the warehouse worker level all the way up through corporate this is not accurate at all. For example: they have sessions weekly with warehouse workers and their low-level managers to get ideas on process improvements. They're not a tech company, so their innovation will pretty much always be through process innovation and buying tech, rather than in-house development. But the way they do things logistically now is drastically different than even 5 years ago, and they are a logistics focused company.

Full disclosure: As you can probably tell by now I've worked with them in various capacities in multiple jobs, though I only briefly worked directly for them.

 

[lawpoke87]

The job market is weird. Companies want experienced employees, but they want to offer "entry level" wages. As one who went through the job change process only a year ago, I can say almost every opening I looked at wanted specialized experience at a non-specialized/entry level salary.

(Then again, I work in higher ed...they want MS and PhDs so they can claim their support and professional staff have advanced or terminal degrees, but they don't really want to pay them for that distinction. Wage growth for higher ed has been pretty stagnant as well unless you are one of the many who have a VP/Assoc. VP title and get to delegate your job responsibilities to someone who knows what they're doing).

That's interesting. Working in that industry, what do you attribute to the rapidly increasing cost of attending college? That revenue has to be going somewhere.

 

[astonmartin708]

I know very few successful business who operate this way. New employees are revenue negative to most businesses for at least the first six months on the job. Some much longer. It is bad business to spend the resources training that employee only to see them depart once trained. Millennials do seem to be impatient. (my wife is as well ) At 25 you don't have any perspective on working harder and harder to not get the same benefits as other generations. You haven't yet worked "harder and harder". Get back to me when you're 35.

That's an extremely dismissive and nonconstructive attitude. I can tell you that by 25 I had already worked 8 different jobs in a number of different industries (And no I wasn't let go lol). I had plenty of perspective on what working as hard as I did got me vs. what it had gotten my mother and her 3 brothers 30 years prior. What really makes a difference isn't really how hard you work, it's where you start out. Were mommy and daddy paying for you to not have debt when you came out of school? Were you able to save up for a car in high school because you weren't having to pay to feed yourself? Did you have extra time to study for the exam because you didn't have to go to work?

 

[lawpoke87]

That's an extremely dismissive and nonconstructive attitude. I can tell you that by 25 I had already worked 8 different jobs in a number of different industries. I had plenty of perspective on what working as hard as I did got me vs. what it had gotten my mother and her 3 brothers 30 years prior.

I disagree. At 25 most people have been out of college 2 years (3 years max). Working in your field for 2 years doesn't give one perspective on that field and whether working hard (or not) will lead to advancement. Remember, I started this part of our conversation talking about people with management degrees not high school grads. If you want to talk about someone who has been in the workforce full time since they were 18-19 then that's another discussion and I would concede your point.

 

[Rippin]

And yet... we keep voting to up the defense budget every year.

Wow you didn’t get that at all... thanks for proving my point about being institutionalized & unable to think freely (nor critically)...

 

[Rippin]

Kevin Spidell.

Phil Haney.

There’s a bag somewhere. With your name on it.

Find it. Eat them. Then go home & make some humble pie for being an idiot.

 

[astonmartin708]

I disagree. At 25 most people have been out of college 2 years (3 years max). Working in your field for 2 years doesn't give one perspective on that field and whether working hard (or not) will lead to advancement. Remember, I started this part of our conversation talking about people with management degrees not high school grads. If you want to talk about someone who has been in the workforce full time since they were 18-19 then that's another discussion and I would concede your point.

I don't agree. It doesn't take that long to realize if there is promotion / monetary potential at your company. If you work your ass off for a year and you're not rewarded for production that you've created... you tend to realize that pretty fast.

 

[Rippin]

And yet... we keep voting to up the defense budget every year.

You’re wrong EVERY TIME!!

Kevin Spidell.

Phil Haney.

There’s a bag full of something for you somewhere. With your name on it.

Find it. Eat them. Then go home & make some humble pie for being an idiot.

 

[lawpoke87]

I don't agree. It doesn't take that long to realize if there is promotion / monetary potential at your company. If you work your ass off for a year and you're not rewarded for production that you've created... you tend to realize that pretty fast.

Whose talking about a particular company. My statement was field of work.

 

[Rippin]

I don't agree. It doesn't take that long to realize if there is promotion / monetary potential at your company. If you work your ass off for a year and you're not rewarded for production that you've created... you tend to realize that pretty fast.

Wow he’s wrong again!!!

GET HIM!!!

Most people at 25 are not out of college. In fact, they’re lucky to have had any college education.

 

[Rippin]

Whose talking about a particular company. My statement was field of work.

What is a question?

“Who’s talking about a particular company?” would be one.

If your statement was field of work, then it would have read “field of work,” which it didn’t.

None of that makes sense.

 

[Rippin]

Can we stop on the border wall when talking about spending. It's peanuts. You can hate on the wall for a variety of reasons but the cost of it as it relates to total spending or even defense spending which is what we're talking about here is a blip. Agree on pet projects. However, if you look at the overall defense budget those projects don't really amount to a significant amount either.

It’s arguable that more defense spending during the Obama admin (real defense spending - not that pay for play uranium 1 type bs that occurred under State depts of Hillary/Kerry/Obama/Biden) could’ve prevented coronavirus from escaping from that CCP biochemical engineering lab in Wuhan in the first place...

 

[Rippin]

I disagree. At 25 most people have been out of college 2 years (3 years max). Working in your field for 2 years doesn't give one perspective on that field and whether working hard (or not) will lead to advancement. Remember, I started this part of our conversation talking about people with management degrees not high school grads. If you want to talk about someone who has been in the workforce full time since they were 18-19 then that's another discussion and I would concede your point.

This is possibly (even likely) true BUT it means nothing as it is not indicative of anything economically speaking. You’re picking one group out of the entire economy. A group that is also experiencing far lower real wage growth than it should due to (both legal & illegal) immigration.

 

[Rippin]

10 year moratorium on all immigration. Mandatory. 3-5 years for family members (pending an excruciatingly tedious & meticulous vetting process).

As the unofficial ambassador of the white race, a descendent of slaves (both contract term & lifelong indentured servitude) - not slave owners, I make this choice to put the USA (& all my other ancestors & other descendente of slaves) first.

By the way, first slave owner in USA was actually a black Dutchman by the name of Anthony Johnson. He was known as the cruelest slaveowner until his death. He even held some of my own ancestors as indentured servants.

I’ll accept my reparations in cash or via PayPal cashapp Venmo whatever. I just want my reparations, man.

 

[aTUfan]

It’s arguable that more defense spending during the Obama admin (real defense spending - not that pay for play uranium 1 type bs that occurred under State depts of Hillary/Kerry/Obama/Biden) could’ve prevented coronavirus from escaping from that CCP biochemical engineering lab in Wuhan in the first place...

If you count the $180,000,000,000.00 cash we gave Iran.

 

[Rippin]

If you count the $180,000,000,000.00 cash we gave Iran.

Ha! I have a feeling we both know where that money went. Or, (more importantly) where it didn’t go...

Dems/RINOs are so naive. Like most people, I want the government to do the few things I can’t like stop a plague, stop a war, handle a plague or handle a war & most importantly leave me alone. It’s sad how many people want to march to have their rights taken away so they can rely on the uber efficient super awesome government (sarcasm there if you didn’t catch it - government bureaucrats are rewarded for doing a terrible jobs with promotions & thus once promote continue with this strategy of being even more ineffective in hopes of another promotion/raise).

 

[Rippin]

ww.gone.wga

GOOD GAME...

You libtard beezies! Lol

 

[Rippin]

Lol finally US census bureau came out with the numbers - illegal immigrants, while only 7% of the population commit 22% of the murders in the USA & the numbers go up from there all the way to 72% of drug possession cases.

Of course, I was already aware of these numbers being what they were because the states of Arizona & Texas (I believe MO, too) have done similar studies & although smaller sample sizes were analyzed they all came out to roughly these exact same statistics.

What was that y’all love to say? Immigrants commit crimes at a far lower rate than native born US citizens?

 

[noble cane]

The way the Dem establishment is ruthlessly taking people out of the race and forcing them to line up behind their guy is making me jealous. I wish the RNC played that cut throat

When Obama calls... you drop out of the race... or else..

Financial leverage likely used... drop out and the DNC will help cover your campaign debts..

 

[aTUfan]

Our current situation must seem like utopia for Bernie; nobody works and the government pays for everything.