Another Small Crowd

[Babe the Blue Ox]

The attendance on a chilly Friday night at H.A. Chapman Stadium was announced as 17,383, the smallest crowd for a home game this season. TU is averaging 18,744 fans for its five home games, including the Louisiana crowd of 17,758 that was the lowest turnout for a home opener since 1984. - Tulsa World

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I bet they wouldn't mention a low turnout for OU or OSU home openers and what not.

 

[chito_and_leon]

According to ESPN, SMU had under 15k at our game last week even though they were 5-2, favored and playing for bowl eligibility. So, could be a lot worse.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Like our championship game.

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

What was your estimate of our actual attendance? I had to miss due to a prior Friday night commitment.

 

[lawpoke87]

Anyone have a good explanation for our attendance issues. We win ten games then have the lowest attended home opener in over 30 years (under 18k). Are casual TU fans peeling off to OU and OSU due to the success of those schools? Lack of marketing by TU? Poor game day experience?

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

With our luck, the Temple game will be scheduled for 7 pm on EspnU. It will be about 40 degrees for our only Saturday night game.

 

[URedskin54]

Anyone have a good explanation for our attendance issues. We win ten games then have the lowest attended home opener in over 30 years (under 18k). Are casual TU fans peeling off to OU and OSU due to the success of those schools? Lack of marketing by TU? Poor game day experience?

Other entertainment options/ability to watch every game on TV/cultural shift. Larger schools will feel it too, it just hits the Tulsa’s of the world first.

 

[Lumpuckeroo]

Other entertainment options/ability to watch every game on TV/cultural shift. Larger schools will feel it too, it just hits the Tulsa’s of the world first.

TV has killed stadium attendance for the casual fan.

 

[lawpoke87]

OSU should set an attendance record this season but they are winning...or were winning. It will be interesting to see what attendance looks like next year when they may very well be breaking in a true freshman QB. What's disturbing about TU's attendance is that winning 10 games seems to have had little effect. Agree with the TV explanation btw.

 

[URedskin54]

OSU is at pretty close to a historical high point for their program. For whatever reason there hasn’t been a lot of buzz around our program during Monty’s rebuild, even during a 10 win season.

I’ve seen a whole lot of empty seats on TV this year for teams all across the country, including many P5s. A lot of these schools are still doing a good job on tickets sold, but people aren’t showing up. I attended a “sold out” game last year with what had to be 10,000+ empty seats. Gotta wonder how long it takes before people stop buying the tickets

 

[Novocaine]

Basically, it's not overcast, 70 degrees, and low humidity, there's no real reason to go for most with HDTV and DVR available at home.

 

[HuffyCane]

For the fan, the value of the TV broadcast is greater than the price point of the ticket, after taxes, fees, parking, and concessions. From the point of view of the facility owner (in this case the university) the cost of providing an experience that exceeds the value point for the fan is either prohibitive or leads to diminishing returns over the course of several seasons, where the bulk of revenue is derived from TV rights, licensing, and elite booster contributions. This is true across all sports. The English Premier League, the world's most watched sporting contest, has the same trouble. You can walk up and buy tickets to games now that you wouldn't dream of getting a ticket five years ago unless it was from a tout at 3 times the price or more. NASCAR is going broke from this problem.

TU has done a good job over the past two seasons of enhancing services for fans that have little out of pocket expense for the facility (allowing craft beer sales, etc.), but TU is still not a value when compared to other entertainment options and other live football presentations within the city limits.

I still say that if they offered a $5000 tuition rebate for every NEWLY purchased season ticket held for five consecutive years prior to the request for the rebate, season tickets would zoom. (Max 4 tickets). Current and past season ticket holders would not be eligible. Basically, you buy your own scholarship, if your kid qualifies academically for TU. Your kid is in 7th grade. You start to worry about paying for college. You don't want them going to OU and OSU, but you don't really care where they go besides that. Your wife wants them close to home. The only thing you know about TU is that it is expensive and seems to be overpriced by about $5 to $10K versus similar schools. So you buy four season tickets at $200.00 a piece for a total of $800.00. You do that for five years, then when the kid is ready for TU, you've paid in $4000 and if the kid gets in, you get a $5000 "value". They keep that $5000 rebate for each year they go to school at TU and the parents keep the season tickets going. So you pay in $7200 and get $20,000 in "value." If they are concerned about the back end financial exposure if it becomes hugely popular, then you cap it the first 100 season ticket holders that sign up for it, etc. $800 a year is chickenfeed if you are funding band or soccer or something else in the stupid American con show that is high school sports in hopes of a scholarship.

It might not move the needle much, but it would go along way towards showing TU is actually "For Our City" after 30 years of acting like it is too exclusive to be a part of the whole city. Maybe people use the tickets, maybe they don't. Who cares. The seat would be empty anyway, the sale on concessions would be gravy and the uptick in season ticket purchase numbers might start some momentum. In the best case scenario, the kid arrives on TU's campus having spent four or five weekends on campus over the previous 5 years. They won't show up to campus totally unaware that anything like TU existed 10 miles from their home. It might help student retention -- something TU is doing better on, but really needs to improve. Then when they leave, season tickets have been a part of their life since they were 13. They might not buy season tickets immediately, but most will eventually come back to campus, especially when their kids are say, in 7th grade.

 

[lawpoke87]

One interesting thing about OSU games which I didn't really see ten years ago...people tailgating who never go in the stadium. There had to be at least 2000 to 3000...maybe more.... people (hard to count because it's so spread out) who tailgate, cook, and watch the game outside the stadium in their huge tents and big screen TVs. It's as much of a social function as a game.

 

[TU Pilot]

I think if we were winning games the Navy, Houston, and Memphis games would've had a lot more people show up. A lot of our problem is lack of consistency and playing terrible teams at home. This was best home slate in a while. Only going to get worse next year- Central Arkansas, Arkansas St, Tulane, SMU, UCONN, USF... Hopefully SMU and USF are decent

 

[HuffyCane]

FSU is consistently ranked in the Top 10 and plays a quality schedule. The caliber of athlete is unmatched. They almost always win at home. Its not unusual to see 5 to 15, 000 seats empty even against teams like Miami or South Florida or ranked opponents nobody cares about. The City of Tallahassee police department estimates that three times the number of people gather outside the stadium for tailgating and social events than go in the stadium. That estimate excludes students. We are talking about alumni and regular fans. I know people who haven't missed a tailgate in 10 years and haven't watched a game live in that period, even when the tickets were free. A growing segment of the population prefers to watch the game on TV or their phone in comfort. Still others resent the delays in watching a game live to accommodate TV and the instant reply they have allowed to be implemented.

They have had such trouble selling out the cheap seats, they removed 15,000 of them and installed club seating (which still hasn't sold because it is in the sun). There is more going on here than just failure to win. And winning alone will not help the issue.

 

[TU_BLA]

Anyone see the screen shot of Arkansas and Coastal Carolina on Saturday at kickoff. Stadium was about 1/3 full with a nearly empty upper deck.

And you need to stop saying "Well, when Tulsa beats x or y, maybe people will start showing up". Because in 2010 TU beat Notre Dame on national TV in South Bend...and the same 17k people who were there this past Friday were at the game the week following the Notre Dame game. Last year we throttled Memphis and played Navy and Houston in two of the best, most exciting games in the AAC. Bottom line is Tulsa SUCKS as a sports town. It's why the BOK can't sell out NCAA tournament games, no one goes to Roughneck games despite the quality of the experience (especially this year), no one went to the Talons game despite the product on the field and the experience being a ton of fun. People here want to walk around the damn mall and sit on their a$$ in a movie theater.

 

[TULOYAL]

I think if we were winning games the Navy, Houston, and Memphis games would've had a lot more people show up. A lot of our problem is lack of consistency and playing terrible teams at home. This was best home slate in a while. Only going to get worse next year- Central Arkansas, Arkansas St, Tulane, SMU, UCONN, USF... Hopefully SMU and USF are decent

 

[TULOYAL]

Is that really our home schedule next year? Yuck! I've been a season ticket holder 21 years in a row and may drop them. If the product on the field were much better I would consider keeping them but I don't see the light at the end of this tunnel.

Interesting article in the Tulsa World today. It appears that the two worst defenses in Tulsa history are this year and 2015 in terms of yards given up per game. PM has got to hire an offensive coordinator and spend more time on defense or his days are numbered.

 

[astonmartin708]

Is that really our home schedule next year? Yuck! I've been a season ticket holder 21 years in a row and may drop them. If the product on the field were much better I would consider keeping them but I don't see the light at the end of this tunnel.

Interesting article in the Tulsa World today. It appears that the two worst defenses in Tulsa history are this year and 2015 in terms of yards given up per game. PM has got to hire an offensive coordinator and spend more time on defense or his days are numbered.

I'd rather him just hire a whole new defensive staff.

 

[TU Pilot]

Is that really our home schedule next year? Yuck! I've been a season ticket holder 21 years in a row and may drop them. If the product on the field were much better I would consider keeping them but I don't see the light at the end of this tunnel.

Interesting article in the Tulsa World today. It appears that the two worst defenses in Tulsa history are this year and 2015 in terms of yards given up per game. PM has got to hire an offensive coordinator and spend more time on defense or his days are numbered.

That's the current 18 schedule. No dates other than the UT and Arkansas games that are both away.

 

[TU Pilot]

Anyone see the screen shot of Arkansas and Coastal Carolina on Saturday at kickoff. Stadium was about 1/3 full with a nearly empty upper deck.

And you need to stop saying "Well, when Tulsa beats x or y, maybe people will start showing up". Because in 2010 TU beat Notre Dame on national TV in South Bend...and the same 17k people who were there this past Friday were at the game the week following the Notre Dame game. Last year we throttled Memphis and played Navy and Houston in two of the best, most exciting games in the AAC. Bottom line is Tulsa SUCKS as a sports town. It's why the BOK can't sell out NCAA tournament games, no one goes to Roughneck games despite the quality of the experience (especially this year), no one went to the Talons game despite the product on the field and the experience being a ton of fun. People here want to walk around the damn mall and sit on their a$$ in a movie theater.

All of the games you just mentioned were away. You think only 17k show up if we play Notre Dame at home that year instead of South Bend?

 

[Tulsafanzz]

I'm tired of the "Tulsa is not a sports town" garbage. The # of Tulsa area people that go to sporting events in Stillwater, Norman, Fayetteville & OKC (Thunder) is much higher than you would imagine. We're just not getting them to TU events.

 

[Bill Lowery]

I'm tired of the "Tulsa is not a sports town" garbage. The # of Tulsa area people that go to sporting events in Stillwater, Norman, Fayetteville & OKC (Thunder) is much higher than you would imagine. We're just not getting them to TU events.

I wonder how many of the Tulsans that go to OU and OSU games are alumni of those schools? As many have pointed out on the boards before, our alumni base is so small and those alumni still living in the Tulsa area is even smaller.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

All of the games you just mentioned were away. You think only 17k show up if we play Notre Dame at home that year instead of South Bend?

Notre Dame would be at least as big of a draw as Navy.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I wonder how many of the Tulsans that go to OU and OSU games are alumni of those schools? As many have pointed out on the boards before, our alumni base is so small and those alumni still living in the Tulsa area is even smaller.

The problem is OU beats Tulsa in non alumni and alumni of Tulsa area residents attending OU and TU games. And of course their alumni base is a lot bigger.

I'd like to see the percentage of alumni base to alumni attendance for OU and TU. Don't have a solid idea of what that tally would look like.

 

[lawpoke87]

OSU attendance = large percentage of alums

OU attendance = my guess would be half or maybe slightly less

Attending a TU game is easy compared to OU or OSU just based on location alone for Tulsa area football fans. The issue imo for the casual fan is the perception of P5 vs G5.

 

[drboobay]

I think if we were winning games the Navy, Houston, and Memphis games would've had a lot more people show up. A lot of our problem is lack of consistency and playing terrible teams at home. This was best home slate in a while. Only going to get worse next year- Central Arkansas, Arkansas St, Tulane, SMU, UCONN, USF... Hopefully SMU and USF are decent

I was about to dive back into the attendance conjecture again, but nothing new to say.

 

[TU 1978]

We went to Lamar’s homecoming game with Central Arkansas this past weekend (spouse attended TU homecoming with me so I attended her homecoming), and general admission tickets for alumni on the visitors side were $5 each. Even though UCA was the first place team in the conference, the stadium was woefully empty. This, even with the inclusion of 5 high school bands marching with the Lamar band at halftime.

So, price doesn’t help if the product (a losing team) is painful to watch.

Incidentally, I thought I was watching Tulsa play the first half. Lamar has a receiver who over and over again was wide open, the ball delivered to him, and he dropped it every time.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

Perception is reality for the vast majority of people... until we’re perceived as big time, we’ll continue to be fourth wheel in football.

We’ve all spilled our guts trying to figure out ways to get people to the stadium. A good team helps, but it isn’t the only answer. Unfortunately I’m not sure it’ll ever get better at this rate... just appreciate it for what it is and get out and support the program.

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

Anyone see the screen shot of Arkansas and Coastal Carolina on Saturday at kickoff. Stadium was about 1/3 full with a nearly empty upper deck.

And you need to stop saying "Well, when Tulsa beats x or y, maybe people will start showing up". Because in 2010 TU beat Notre Dame on national TV in South Bend...and the same 17k people who were there this past Friday were at the game the week following the Notre Dame game. Last year we throttled Memphis and played Navy and Houston in two of the best, most exciting games in the AAC. Bottom line is Tulsa SUCKS as a sports town. It's why the BOK can't sell out NCAA tournament games, no one goes to Roughneck games despite the quality of the experience (especially this year), no one went to the Talons game despite the product on the field and the experience being a ton of fun. People here want to walk around the damn mall and sit on their a$$ in a movie theater.

I'm not buying this either. Many High school games are standing room only, and several of those are either televised state wide or streamed live. Fans will get out for live sporting events if the price is right and the product is good.

 

[TU_BLA]

Anyone see the screen shot of Arkansas and Coastal Carolina on Saturday at kickoff. Stadium was about 1/3 full with a nearly empty upper deck.

And you need to stop saying "Well, when Tulsa beats x or y, maybe people will start showing up". Because in 2010 TU beat Notre Dame on national TV in South Bend...and the same 17k people who were there this past Friday were at the game the week following the Notre Dame game. Last year we throttled Memphis and played Navy and Houston in two of the best, most exciting games in the AAC. Bottom line is Tulsa SUCKS as a sports town. It's why the BOK can't sell out NCAA tournament games, no one goes to Roughneck games despite the quality of the experience (especially this year), no one went to the Talons game despite the product on the field and the experience being a ton of fun. People here want to walk around the damn mall and sit on their a$$ in a movie theater.

I'm not buying this either. Many High school games are standing room only, and several of those are either televised state wide or streamed live. Fans will get out for live sporting events if the price is right and the product is good.

$20 for FBS football and an NCAA record setting offense that is in the midst of winning 10 games isn’t a good product? Maybe our standards are a bit too high

 

[HuffyCane]

Take away the Moms having social hour, the kids looking to score or meet their weed man, and everyone else who will be leaving the game without knowing the score, and you’ve got plenty of empty seats.

People don’t go to high school football games for the quality of football. They go for 1000 other reasons. All of which have a value higher than the price point for the consumer.

 

[TU_BLA]

Take away the Moms having social hour, the kids looking to score or meet their weed man, and everyone else who will be leaving the game without knowing the score, and you’ve got plenty of empty seats.

People don’t go to high school football games for the quality of football. They go for 1000 other reasons. All of which have a value higher than the price point for the consumer.

I would buy this as an explanation as to why Friday games at TU are poorly attended...but what about the 70 degree nice and sunny Saturday against your arch-rival in football?

 

[JesseTU]

There are 8 types of people that go to football games, in my humble opinion:

1. Students - Tulsa has few, and many of those are international or elite academics with little interest in football.

2. Alumni - Tulsa has few, and most of those move out of state

3. Bandwagon Fans - Tulsa has few. We get good, we fall off. We are not a big state school and we are not the only game within easy driving distance.

4. Football fans - People who want to go and watch football. Tulsa has a decent number of this type of fans in proportion to our overall fan base. Probably most of our fans are just football fans that becomes TU fans.

5. Social hour - Tulsa has few. Some events become the "it" place to be, to be seen, and to see people. I suspect most of the box sweets at Tulsa fall into this category, but otherwise not so much.

6. Groups/Promos - people lured in with groups or because of a promo. Tulsa does OK with groups given our fan base. Not sure on how effective promos are.

7. Just something to do - I would assume these people, coupled with the group/promo, make up most of the fans at a typical Driller game. Some interest in the game, little interest in the actual team, may leave not knowing who won or before the game is over. No idea how well Tulsa does in this regard.

8. Opposing fans, players families, and obligations - all lumped together because the attendance of these groups is likely similar for every school and is unlikely to be significantly changed by marketing, game day experience, or the product on the field. .

If we want to increase attendance those are the groups we can choose from. I'm sure people smarter than I can figure out how we market to the various groups and want they are looking for. When going to a TU game is seen as exclusive, exciting, or more people become fans - we can ride the success for several reasons before it start falling off. Its a snowball, we just have to start it rolling,

That's all.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

I don’t see the point in being upset about next years schedule... it doesn’t matter who we bring in outside of the top 10-15... attendance will be the same. It’ll be the same for central Arkansas as it is for just about anyone else we play at home.

Now filling up the Reynolds Center is a different story... we can and should be getting that place full.

 

[old.guy]

Actually, attendance at high school football games is pretty low. A handful of the huge suburban programs -- Jenks, Union, etc. -- get big crowds but the others are limited mostly to a few students, band parents and players' parents.

TU's problems are too many other entertainment options to draw non-alumni, too-small student body to produce sufficient numbers of alumni, and fan base aging out and dying off.

 

[TULOYAL]

I don’t see the point in being upset about next years schedule... it doesn’t matter who we bring in outside of the top 10-15... attendance will be the same. It’ll be the same for central Arkansas as it is for just about anyone else we play at home.

Now filling up the Reynolds Center is a different story... we can and should be getting that place full.

Just speaking for myself, it does matter who the opponent is. I have season tickets and enjoy the games in person but if the weather is questionable and we have a crummy opponent I will be choosing whether or not to walk away from my big TV and comfy couch or getting up and spending 4 hours at H.A. Chapman. Tough call. It's not a tough call if our opponent is SMU, Houston, Navy, etc.

 

[URedskin54]

For TU fans it shouldn’t be a tough call. Go to the game regardless of opponent. You only get 6 chances to watch them play. The difficulty is getting non-TU friends to come with me to watch us play Central Arkansas

 

[goldenhurricane2]

Just speaking for myself, it does matter who the opponent is. I have season tickets and enjoy the games in person but if the weather is questionable and we have a crummy opponent I will be choosing whether or not to walk away from my big TV and comfy couch or getting up and spending 4 hours at H.A. Chapman. Tough call. It's not a tough call if our opponent is SMU, Houston, Navy, etc.

For someone with “loyal” in their screen name... well never mind.

That’s the problem TU and many other schools are facing (outside of the giant marquee programs) - fans don’t go to games anymore and will use any and all excuses to justify it: it’s too cold, I don’t like the opponent, it’s too hot, people won’t sit down in front of me, I’d rather watch on tv, it’s just TU not one of the big schools, kickoff is too early, kickoff is too late, kickoff interferes with OU’s ppv against wright career college, etc...

Hell even a former player was whining about opponents and refusing to go to games... of all people he should know better than anyone that it’s important for a fan base to support the team not just come out for who your team is playing... is there added excitement for better opponents? Absolutely. But the excuses for not going to games is almost comical.

TU has a hard time getting good competition to sign... one of the reasons is our low attendance numbers. Why would a big name school want to sign a deal with us to come play in front of 17k fans when they can bring a doo doo d2 school in a draw 80k? It’s a vicious cycle that seems like it won’t be broken anytime soon... and the couch potato crowd just makes matters worse.