Why are Health Care Workers Refusing Vaccination?
- Thread starter shon46
- Start date
First guess would be that there are plenty of idiots working in healthcare just like every other profession
2 nurses here. We ended up getting it, but were very hesitant and prefered to wait until others got their second doses. 30000 people is still a very small sample size. From drug reps, to spine and general surgeons, to anesthesiologists, icu doctors, icu and er nurses, many are hesitent and some refuse until much later, like this summer. Call them idiots if you want, but they are brilliant surgeons and healthcare workers. They dont trust the incredibly sped up process. They dont trust the politics behind it. And i get that to some extent. We got it finally tho 3 weeks after it was initially offered on faith that it will work and is safe even though im still not sure if i should have. So far my wife and i have had no side effects other than a sore arm and a little fatigue. So, i wouldnt be quick to label thousands of providers idiots for not wanting to inject themselves with something largely still experimental. I think hesitancy is wise and understand both perspectives on why our friends are and are not getting it.
There aren't a large majority of nurses and doctors refusing. At my wife's hospital, two people refused it. One, because she is pregnant. She will likely get it later after testing on pregnant women is more robust and/or she has her baby. Can't fault her there.Why are a large majority of front line health care workers all over the country declining to receive the Covid vaccination?
Zerohedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zerowww.zerohedge.com
The other, because as URedskin said, there are idiots in every profession. Even nursing. I can certainly understand wanting to err on the side of caution given how new it is. Waiting till the first few rounds of innoculations are done with, as maverick suggested, is very defensible. But this holdout isn't one of those. This one is fully on board the "It's a secret way to implant microchips!" train.
My wife has had her second dose now. Her arm hurt like hell after the second one, and one of her colleagues spiked a fever for a day after the second one. But otherwise nothing major.
I don’t know the numbers but here’s a story from the AP on the subject. There does appear to be a problem. I’m just not sure the magnitude. I can tell you there hasn’t been any significant issues at Saint Francis yet but only a small portion of the staff has taking the vaccine as of last Friday.
apnews.com
Vaccine rollout hits snag as health workers balk at shots
The desperately awaited vaccination drive against the coronavirus in the U.S. is running into resistance from an unlikely quarter: Surprising numbers of health care workers who have seen firsthand the death and misery inflicted by COVID-19 are refusing shots...
apnews.com
Today's vaccine research and synthesis has become extraordinarily efficient. My guess is this vaccine is very similar in composition to the flu vaccine with the major difference being the protein chain being used to simulate the spike proteins on the coronavirus. If you look at the entire vaccine structure, it uses some complex carbohydrates (sugars) as a substrate and stabilizing structure and some synthesized lipid molecules to make the vaccine fat soluble. The vaccine trials are designed to do two things 1) make sure it stimulates the creation of appropriate antibodies in order to bind to the virus particles and interrupt the viral RNA replication and 2) make sure that this antibody synthesis isn't attacking your own body's natural proteins. If something was wrong with the 2nd part it would be apparent when the individual was experiencing full efficiency and antibody coverage. The 2nd won't be know definitively and in a statistically significant way for 2-5 years and partially depending on the persistence of COVID-19. Right now medical researchers can test for COVID antigens in those who received the vaccine and its effectiveness against the actual virus would only be empirical unless you intentionally subject those individuals to the virus.
Unlike the flu vaccine, COVID does not seem to have the rapid mutation rate the flu has. In spite of the revelation that there is a new, more contagious strain of COVID now circulating, medical researchers do not believe it has a significantly different structure that would render the vaccine ineffective against it. If this holds true, a single set of COVID vaccinations should be help protect for life...only if the viral protein structures change significantly would you need to get an annual or every so often (like tetanus) shot to boost.
Side effects: The sore arm is basically a bruise directly on the muscle. The fatigue and fever is the body producing the antibodies to the "foreign invader" and it would feel similar to the initial reaction your body might have if you got the actual virus. Vaccines today do not use live virus or even denatured virus to create antibodies so it is not going to give you the virus.
Unlike the flu vaccine, COVID does not seem to have the rapid mutation rate the flu has. In spite of the revelation that there is a new, more contagious strain of COVID now circulating, medical researchers do not believe it has a significantly different structure that would render the vaccine ineffective against it. If this holds true, a single set of COVID vaccinations should be help protect for life...only if the viral protein structures change significantly would you need to get an annual or every so often (like tetanus) shot to boost.
Side effects: The sore arm is basically a bruise directly on the muscle. The fatigue and fever is the body producing the antibodies to the "foreign invader" and it would feel similar to the initial reaction your body might have if you got the actual virus. Vaccines today do not use live virus or even denatured virus to create antibodies so it is not going to give you the virus.
Meanwhile Covid is raging out of control killing 4,000+ people a day with about 370K Americans dead already with the CDC predicting the worst is yet to come. Vaccinations are running far behind schedule. A new study indicates symptom free people are likely the biggest spreaders.
Wear those masks and keep your distance.
Wear those masks and keep your distance.
Last edited:
Not saying the linked article is wrong but masks are being sold within the article with a commission paid back to the website carrying said article.
US remains the world leader
flip.it
U.S. sets another record for daily Covid-19 cases
The nation reported 278,920 new coronavirus cases Saturday.
flip.it
US remains the world leader
U.S. sets another record for daily Covid-19 cases
The nation reported 278,920 new coronavirus cases Saturday.
I’m confident that our reddest state currently hitting 50K cases per day by itself will get things under control soon
They aren’t getting it because they are rational. They have the intelligence to weigh the risks of getting CoVid in their specialty — In some cases very very low. They are practicing at home via telephone and don’t need it preferring to wait to make it available for colleagues. They have bona fide religious objections. Lots of reasons that have nothing to do with politics.
Most of them are waiting because they are healthy, know how to take precautions, can afford to take those precautions, and they realize that ultimately the risk of lasting injury or death to them is low. For those folks, waiting to see what the side effects numbers look like makes sense.
As for the political angle, the only complaints I’ve heard from knowledgeable medical professionals is that the lawyers gummed it up. The vaccine was developed in 72 hours in March. We’ve been testing since then. It was ready to go in September. The CDC lawyers and DOJ said dont influence the election. They rolled it out within a week of that being over and additional testing continued making regulators more confident. It’s also the reason why there has been chaos in the distribution. Government couldn’t work on refining the inherent obstacles in a nationwide roll out in advance due to the election.
Semi educated medical folks view the quick approval time as evidence of recklessness or political meddling. The reality is, as BLA alludes to, the last major vaccine we’ve needed, mumps, took four years. And that was a 100 lifetimes ago in medical research technology. Second, the obstacle after technology is incentivizing development in the private sector. This process is slow because of the inherent risks both financial and legal for the companies.
The Trump Administration screwed up a lot when it came to CoVid. Not the least of which was the person overseeing the hiring of medical leadership at HHS during this period was a 20 year old University of Michigan student who was kicked out of her sorority house due to CoVid and decided to come to Washington to work while she waited to see if her lacrosse practice would begin in the fall.
That’s just a sampling of embarrassing stunts, as well as the host of unforced errors and the necessity of white lies to the American public to avoid rushes on certain critical materials like masks. The daily game show of briefings with the President trying to play MC didn’t help either.
But they don’t get and will likely never get the credit for the bold vision of quickly working with the Germans to divide the government roles needed to support the two different paths to a vaccine that the medical folks were suggesting we take.
You guessed it. We got stuck with the more expensive part. But we got the ability to get more of the vaccine faster if it was successful. Which it was.
Unlike previous vaccine efforts like SARS, we pre-paid for it, regardless of whether it was successful. And we paid a premium. We totally eliminated the hesitancy of the private sector to slow walk it because they were afraid of wasting money or they didn’t have the capital.
So we had better tech for emergency testing and we had a more efficient business regulatory atmosphere than ever before.
It was a magnificent triumph for world medical cooperation. And the Trump Administration quietly played an absolutely indispensable role in that. But people got bogged down making it about politics and procurement in an election year. And they tried to manipulate people with it. And sadly cowardly leadership on both sides caved to extreme pressures on their side of the aisle because they were worried about political impacts. So rather than getting credit their work is dismissed as being associated with someone who under enormous stress said nonsensical things like injecting disinfectant into your blood.
But make no mistake. Lost amongst the mountain of justifiable criticism, the Trump administration policy team got it right. Exactly right. And Congress gave them the blank check to do it. Lots of unsung heroes. Most of whom it looks like while spend the rest of their careers in infamy by association.
Most of them are waiting because they are healthy, know how to take precautions, can afford to take those precautions, and they realize that ultimately the risk of lasting injury or death to them is low. For those folks, waiting to see what the side effects numbers look like makes sense.
As for the political angle, the only complaints I’ve heard from knowledgeable medical professionals is that the lawyers gummed it up. The vaccine was developed in 72 hours in March. We’ve been testing since then. It was ready to go in September. The CDC lawyers and DOJ said dont influence the election. They rolled it out within a week of that being over and additional testing continued making regulators more confident. It’s also the reason why there has been chaos in the distribution. Government couldn’t work on refining the inherent obstacles in a nationwide roll out in advance due to the election.
Semi educated medical folks view the quick approval time as evidence of recklessness or political meddling. The reality is, as BLA alludes to, the last major vaccine we’ve needed, mumps, took four years. And that was a 100 lifetimes ago in medical research technology. Second, the obstacle after technology is incentivizing development in the private sector. This process is slow because of the inherent risks both financial and legal for the companies.
The Trump Administration screwed up a lot when it came to CoVid. Not the least of which was the person overseeing the hiring of medical leadership at HHS during this period was a 20 year old University of Michigan student who was kicked out of her sorority house due to CoVid and decided to come to Washington to work while she waited to see if her lacrosse practice would begin in the fall.
That’s just a sampling of embarrassing stunts, as well as the host of unforced errors and the necessity of white lies to the American public to avoid rushes on certain critical materials like masks. The daily game show of briefings with the President trying to play MC didn’t help either.
But they don’t get and will likely never get the credit for the bold vision of quickly working with the Germans to divide the government roles needed to support the two different paths to a vaccine that the medical folks were suggesting we take.
You guessed it. We got stuck with the more expensive part. But we got the ability to get more of the vaccine faster if it was successful. Which it was.
Unlike previous vaccine efforts like SARS, we pre-paid for it, regardless of whether it was successful. And we paid a premium. We totally eliminated the hesitancy of the private sector to slow walk it because they were afraid of wasting money or they didn’t have the capital.
So we had better tech for emergency testing and we had a more efficient business regulatory atmosphere than ever before.
It was a magnificent triumph for world medical cooperation. And the Trump Administration quietly played an absolutely indispensable role in that. But people got bogged down making it about politics and procurement in an election year. And they tried to manipulate people with it. And sadly cowardly leadership on both sides caved to extreme pressures on their side of the aisle because they were worried about political impacts. So rather than getting credit their work is dismissed as being associated with someone who under enormous stress said nonsensical things like injecting disinfectant into your blood.
But make no mistake. Lost amongst the mountain of justifiable criticism, the Trump administration policy team got it right. Exactly right. And Congress gave them the blank check to do it. Lots of unsung heroes. Most of whom it looks like while spend the rest of their careers in infamy by association.
Last edited:
