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Where are they?

Write what you will about Coach Blank's coaching ability & character(& there's always plenty to say & people to say it), but the 2012 Liberty Bowl will always be a top TU football thrill for me. Got so sick of Iowegeans outnumbering us 10-1 everywhere except the Liberty Bowl with about 5 minutes left in the 4thQ(then there were none). 2005 was fantastic, but I'll always be grateful to BB for the 2012 victory. TU Football:1st,last,always!

Here's my take on Patsfan: he occasionally posts some good points, but mostly lurks, waiting for a poster to jump all over, usually with plenty of profanity. He's close to a "sports bigot", e.g. someone obstinately convinced of the superiority of his opinion & quick to be prejudiced against someone else's different opinion.
 
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Bill? Is that you? Lol

Monty's 2015 and 2016 offenses were better than the best one Bill ever had. Look at their points per game and opponents' points per game allowed:

Monty got to 10 wins in 2016 with the 76th ranked defense in the country that was because we had the 7th ranked offense.

Bill had the 30th ranked O and the 35th ranked defense in the country in 2012... still managed to get beat by a 7-6 SMU team.

Then, Bill returned his entire offense from the year before and fell from 30 to 103rd. Even with how utterly terrible we were last year, our offense still finished 54th (~50 spots higher than Bill's 2013 debacle)

Clearly you skipped the parts where I listed stats.

Bill had offensively: 23, 30, 98, 55 avg: 51
Monty has offensively: 12, 4, 41, 91 avg: 42

Bill returned everybody? Are you sure? Cause I remember a lot of talk about how our receivers made Cody look good his first year (30) compared to his second (98)

Monty returned everybody this year and playing an FCS, Sunbelt, and horrible BigXii team has the 91st ranked offense. His big offensive years (@12 and @4) had nobody he recruited getting playing time. The running backs, receivers, QB, and line were all BB

I also notice you don't want to talk about your 8 points anymore :joy:

Again I'm not saying Blankenship was good but Monty isn't better in any statistical way.
 
Write what you will about Coach Blank's coaching ability & character(& there's always plenty to say & people to say it), but the 2012 Liberty Bowl will always be a top TU football thrill for me. Got so sick of Iowegeans outnumbering us 10-1 everywhere except the Liberty Bowl with about 5 minutes left in the 4thQ(then there were none). 2005 was fantastic, but I'll always be grateful to BB for the 2012 victory. TU Football:1st,last,always!
He beat a P6 team, won a conference title and finished the year nationally ranked. He checked all three boxes everyone on this board wanted him to check and TG and SK and JC and DR didnt do that. Im very grateful for that. You can say he did it with TG's players, but TG didnt do it with TG's players so Im not sure how that makes TG a better coaching talent. BB is a nice man and I shake his hand when I see him. His concepts were dated, he couldn't build a staff, and refused to change. He had to go. But its pointless to discuss that now, unless the conversation is focused on whether Montgomery has reached the same point where you said to yourself about BB, "He's got to go." For me, it was before PM walked in the door. You?
 
He beat a P6 team, won a conference title and finished the year nationally ranked. He checked all three boxes everyone on this board wanted him to check and TG and SK and JC and DR didnt do that. Im very grateful for that. You can say he did it with TG's players, but TG didnt do it with TG's players so Im not sure how that makes TG a better coaching talent. BB is a nice man and I shake his hand when I see him. His concepts were dated, he couldn't build a staff, and refused to change. He had to go. But its pointless to discuss that now, unless the conversation is focused on whether Montgomery has reached the same point where you said to yourself about BB, "He's got to go." For me, it was before PM walked in the door. You?

I don't think we are there yet on Monty. But we are teetering on the edge.

I didn't have a problem with the firing of Blankenship (although it was rough all around). I would have been highly skeptical if they had let him continue for the next year.

I am beginning to feel this way about Monty. Too many reoccurring problems and nothing that makes me say wow about him. I hope that is not the case at the end of the year, but if things don't turn around this may feel a lot like I did four years ago.
 
Clearly you skipped the parts where I listed stats.

Bill had offensively: 23, 30, 98, 55 avg: 51
Monty has offensively: 12, 4, 41, 91 avg: 42

Bill returned everybody? Are you sure? Cause I remember a lot of talk about how our receivers made Cody look good his first year (30) compared to his second (98)

Monty returned everybody this year and playing an FCS, Sunbelt, and horrible BigXii team has the 91st ranked offense. His big offensive years (@12 and @4) had nobody he recruited getting playing time. The running backs, receivers, QB, and line were all BB

I also notice you don't want to talk about your 8 points anymore :joy:

Again I'm not saying Blankenship was good but Monty isn't better in any statistical way.
Look at PPG Monty is better in every statistical way.
 
The 2012 year we also lost to a bad Arkansas team, Iowa state, and smu bc of bills awful coaching. That team shoulda been undefeated
 
Fire ‘em both.

I enjoy watching this year’s team as much as I enjoy watching Bill’s last team.

The only edge I give Monty is his good team had a much more exciting offense to watch than Bill’s, BUT Bill’s defense that season was an absolute blast to watch.
 
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Monty’s offenses had more points per game, more yards, etc.... Bill had an alright offense his second season, but it was his defenses that were winning him games. Monty could coach circles around bill offensively
 
Remember that thing I said early about comparing styles? This is why.

If the defense returns a touchdown where does that score go?

If they recover a fumble at the 1 and the offense punches it in on the 4th try where does that td show up?

If a punt returner takes it to the house where does it go?

Yards per game are nice, but don't mean much with out context.

The position their offense was in compared to other teams that year gives context to their ability.
 
Remember that thing I said early about comparing styles? This is why.

If the defense returns a touchdown where does that score go?

If they recover a fumble at the 1 and the offense punches it in on the 4th try where does that td show up?

If a punt returner takes it to the house where does it go?

Yards per game are nice, but don't mean much with out context.

The position their offense was in compared to other teams that year gives context to their ability.
So you’re saying Bills points per game numbers were inflated compared to Monty’s since he had better defenses? (Even though they were already worse than Monty’s)

Cool.
 
So you’re saying Bills points per game numbers were inflated compared to Monty’s since he had better defenses? (Even though they were already worse than Monty’s)

Cool.

Hmmmm. . .

No what I am saying is that ppg is not an offensive stat. Which is why there is an Offense rank and ppg rank.

But keep it up, so far your hate for BB has only translated into a case for firing Monty who isn't doing much better than the horrible Blankenship . . [thumbsup]

By the way we fired BB already
 
Do you have to work that hard at being stupid? I mean do you like train for it? Or is that all just natural talent?

Just for the record since you can't argue facts and want to get personal.

I went to Broken Arrow. Blankenship was the coach at Union. Not a fan. Really never go into Owasso, maybe was there a year ago.

I went to Tulsa. I worked for the athletic department and all before Bill was hired at TU. I literally have no connection to him.

I'm old enough to remember shea's freshman year. Old enough have been in the North Endzone stands for the "two programs going in different directions" game. I was one of the students who pulled down the goal posts at the UTEP game. I sat in the pouring rain with 300+ other fans against Rice and know that was how many because I counted. I sat through the rain vs TCU and LaDainian Tomlinson. I watched us shove a diving De'Angelo Williams out of bounds on fourth down against Memphis. Saw Paul Smith take us for a wild ride and always thought we could win every game.

I converted friends to Tulsa fans including Australians who still follow us now. Took my basketball teams I coached to TU games. Made my family in to Tulsa fans. Have 2 nephews and 2 nieces who have always been Tulsa fans and a 3rd nephew who will be as soon as his mom will let me take him to a game, pshhh 4 months is old enough.

The number of people in this world who can question my love for this university and it's programs are miniscule and most of them are former players. On this board? Catbird is gone, Tall Grass is gone. Dre can, not sure if Kevin Johnson's wife still posts, though she could and probably Gold. (Edit: Sorry Nevada I forgot you. You never would, but you could and I would just be like damn, Nevada said I was a bad fan) There may be a couple others I'm missing, but you're not even close to one of them.

I have cheered for the school since I learned it existed. I have attended this school, worked for this school, defended this school, I have sweat and bled for this school. I have grown our little group of fans where ever I have gone and supported it with my time and money even when I had neither.

In essence go ................ yourself patsfan
Bill Conners has spoken .
 
Hmmmm. . .

No what I am saying is that ppg is not an offensive stat. Which is why there is an Offense rank and ppg rank.

But keep it up, so far your hate for BB has only translated into a case for firing Monty who isn't doing much better than the horrible Blankenship . . [thumbsup]

By the way we fired BB already
Herm Edwards said it the best "You play to win the game........hello!" Who cares about Bill compared to Monty.........I love Bill like a father but bottom line is he stunk it up and so is Monty. Neither should get a pass...........win or find new employment.........you guys are arguing between Bill and Monty but the anger and passion should be pointed at the University for not taking action and allowing this to continue year after year and decade after decade. We have been talking off and on about TU not being able to consistently compete since 92........that's 26 YEARS.......the university strategy has been to throw scraps at the coaches when the fans start to grumble about the program and then when a good coach leaves, they go right back to being cheap and hiring the "diamond in the rough" until they either pan out and leave or stink it up even more. Our basketball program hasn't been consistently relevant on a national level since 98! That's a damn shame.....As an former athlete, it took me almost a decade to get over my anger for the University and finally come back to a game and I'm not even close to being the only one to feel that way. The University is 1000% to blame and we need to stop arguing and fighting useless points among fellow die hard fans on the board and express our disgust with the University in a constructive and passionate way!
 
Herm Edwards said it the best "You play to win the game........hello!" Who cares about Bill compared to Monty.........I love Bill like a father but bottom line is he stunk it up and so is Monty. Neither should get a pass...........win or find new employment.........you guys are arguing between Bill and Monty but the anger and passion should be pointed at the University for not taking action and allowing this to continue year after year and decade after decade. We have been talking off and on about TU not being able to consistently compete since 92........that's 26 YEARS.......the university strategy has been to throw scraps at the coaches when the fans start to grumble about the program and then when a good coach leaves, they go right back to being cheap and hiring the "diamond in the rough" until they either pan out and leave or stink it up even more. Our basketball program hasn't been consistently relevant on a national level since 98! That's a damn shame.....As an former athlete, it took me almost a decade to get over my anger for the University and finally come back to a game and I'm not even close to being the only one to feel that way. The University is 1000% to blame and we need to stop arguing and fighting useless points among fellow die hard fans on the board and express our disgust with the University in a constructive and passionate way!

I agree with most of what you’re saying. Unfortunately TU not only has to fight an uphill battle in regard to support in the community, but they also have to fight a battle internally on a regular basis. While no institution has complete support of athletics from all staff/faculty/administration/board, it seems that we have drawn the short straw in that regard. There are MANY faculty/admin/board members that do not care for football and think Olympic sports should be dropped to a lower division. Not that this is an excuse for lack of proper funding, but it explains the difficulty of making things work as they should at TU. Athletics is given just barely enough to operate, then the rest is on donors. It’s unfortunate and I wish it weren’t that way, but I don’t see it changing anytime soon.
 
Honest question, isn't this the case for most college athletic departments (outside of the top programs)?

Yes and no - outside of Alabama, Oklahoma, Texas and programs like that, money isn’t available in abundance, but they also aren’t asking coaches to take salary cuts. While it was a really great gesture by Haith, Montgomery, and Gragg, it pretty much sums up the issue of our financial situation. Stead did a lot of great things for TU, but unfortunately he did not manage TU’s finances as well as they should have been. So that along with aforementioned items, and the general squeeze every university is feeling has equated to a bare bones situation.
 
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I can agree on the first part.

I disagree on two things. Monty's prowess as an offensive guru. Definitely hasn't shown that. The 10 win season was good but since we have had his players? Meh.

Monty had a solid defense his 10 win season. This year it looks solid again. His other two years have been horrible.

My problem with Monty is all in game mistakes, time management, dumb undisiplined penalties, turnovers and in general having a mental mistake every time we do something positive.

We once had a O-line that was so good they would freeze when we caught defenses jumping. A coach who knew that the winds changed after sunset at Skelly. I see none of that attention to detail or understanding with the current coach. It is costing a good team chances to win.
Herb Hand is one of the best O-line coaches in the game....period....anywhere....any level
 
The 2012 year we also lost to a bad Arkansas team, Iowa state, and smu bc of bills awful coaching. That team shoulda been undefeated
That Iowa State game turned the second Brian Burnham broke his leg. Cody lost confidence in who his next primary target should be and it took a while to find a new identity. The SMU game was just a night of horrors...and that place always seems to be one of those places for TU football and it doesn't matter the differences in talent level.
 
I love these threads - we are either idiots who have too much faith in one coach or idiots who are too passionate about Tulsa football, or both. But we are definitely all idiots. And that's fine, if you are willing to take sides in an argument about TU Football, it at least means you care about TU football. :)

In the end, I was not sad to see BB go. The W/L ratio was going the wrong direction, it did not seem we were recruiting on par with our peers, and people were losing interest. I really liked the idea of a hometown guy coming in and stabilizing a "stepping stone" program, while other people said they'd been there and seen that before... I was okay with the hire. But, I was ready to move on when it ended.

I was okay with the Monte hire too. Close to the opposite of the Blankenship hire. Flashy, known NCAA name, energetic, up and comer, who was going to bring in some big name recruits and light up the scoreboard with his up tempo pass first offense!

Comparing teams from different eras is always hard. But there are certain things you can stack up pretty easy: Wins, titles, bowl games, national rankings, attendance, and negatives (scandals, infractions, etc.). So far, it seems both have done well avoiding big negatives... so yay for that. But both also started off strong in the other categories and then fell off. I always try to keep an open mind for the first two years - good or bad, its just so hard to judge what a coach does with someone else's players (obvious bone head moves, lack of discipline, and "learning curve" issues aside).

But right now it feels very similar to year four of Blankenship. The difference may be that we are used to mediocrity now (that may be a generous word with 1 winning season in the last 5 or 6 years). I started following TU football in 2003, this is the worst stretch of TU football since then. Frankly, like TU basketball, Tulsa football is nearing a point where we squander the reputation we built up. The kids we are recruiting for next year were 12 when we won our last conference championship, since they've been in high school we have had one winning season. What is the identity of our program now?

I'm not calling for Monte's head because after we fired Bill it seems we have ended up right back where we started. Because I don't think we can afford to buy him out. Because he may be better than whatever alternative we could get at this point. Because my expectations are lower. Because the next big thing is just around the corner. Because I'm burned out.

But... if the option was having hit or miss seasons with Blankenship or with Monte, I'd just assume we stuck with Bill. If we finish below 500, I will be very disappointed. If next year starts off like this year, I think it will be very hard for anyone to make excuses for him.

Or... his first couple years in his own program was a tough learning curve. We have loads of talent in the wings that will open up the schemes he wants to run. Mistakes in play calling, schemes, and discipline are a thing of the past. We got this. 11-2 isn't a bad season after all. We can hit 13-0 next year.
 
The university either needs to commit to football, or get rid of it. Doing anything half assed isn't worth doing.
 
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I think it's funny that we're comparing a full 4 years of Bill being given a good team and driving it into the ground with 3.25 years of Monty being given a crap team and elevating them then taking a step back. Can we not give Monty the benefit of the full season before calling for his head? He's lost two games this season, both against moderate to talented opponents and it's "the sky is falling" already.
 
I’ve said before, if we can go on the road and beat temple then get on a little run after the Houston game I’ll feel better. Thursday is a big, big, BIG game.
 
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Bill Conners has spoken .

If you mean to compliment me by saying I write anything like him. Thank you. That may be the best compliment I have ever received about writing.

That era was a golden age of journalism.
 
Bill? Is that you? Lol

Monty's 2015 and 2016 offenses were better than the best one Bill ever had. Look at their points per game and opponents' points per game allowed:

Monty got to 10 wins in 2016 with the 76th ranked defense in the country that was because we had the 7th ranked offense.

Bill had the 30th ranked O and the 35th ranked defense in the country in 2012... still managed to get beat by a 7-6 SMU team.

Then, Bill returned his entire offense from the year before and fell from 30 to 103rd. Even with how utterly terrible we were last year, our offense still finished 54th (~50 spots higher than Bill's 2013 debacle)

Then why can’t PM do better with his own players..? Since BB’s players have become scarce on this team, it’s execution and results have been less than stellar.

It would seem that BB’s players were more Bayloresqe than the Baylor genius’.

Montgomery was a hall monitor.. and a poor one at that.

I’m no fan of B.B., but, I gotta say his 2016 Seniors were so much more talented than PMs current crew.
 
His seniors were Graham’s players I believe
And who scouted and recruited for TG his last two seasons? Who was the only coach at any level of football that saw that Trey Watts could play in the NFL some day if he worked? BB had a lot of faults. Recruiting skill players to TG's system was not one of them.
 
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