Unacceptable Basketball

[Air_Raid918]

Sorry Folk's us older, longer term fans expect more from our program. I'm not advocating firing Haith but @ the same time, TU teams should @ least B an annual "bubble" NIT/NCAA team 4 consideration.

Older, longer term fans? I did not experience the NCAA appearances in the 80's, nor the NIT champ in 81. Oh, and the NCAA appearance in 1955!

So, because I didn't experience the early to mid 80's, when we didn't make it once past the round of 32, my expectations are lower?

I'm not trying to get into a battle of ages, I just simply disagree. We all believe we should be NIT/NCAA every year. I'm also realistic. Haith didn't have the luxury of just coming off multiple Sweet 16 appearances, Elite 8, to build an incoming class of 9. Be realistic and stop looking over the signing of 9 new players. So difficult to convince that many players and families to join a 9 player class. That's why we only hit on a few. But that argument has been played out.

I think we have the same expectations, just disagree as to whether those should have applied to this year.

 

[okie51]

About fan support, I remember going to games at the fairgrounds where parking was free and at the civic center where we paid for parking but it was an easy walk. With attendance so low TU should offer say for five bucks parking in one of the lots. We don't have season tickets because Doug took the fun out of games for us. We now park east of TU and have to cross Harvard with family. When its cold we don't go. I would pay on a per-game for parking close to the building. My feeling is the lots are not full and TU is in need of fans. We find we are going to less games each year the way it is with parking.

 

[goldfan83]

About fan support, I remember going to games at the fairgrounds where parking was free and at the civic center where we paid for parking but it was an easy walk. With attendance so low TU should offer say for five bucks parking in one of the lots. We don't have season tickets because Doug took the fun out of games for us. We now park east of TU and have to cross Harvard with family. When its cold we don't go. I would pay on a per-game for parking close to the building. My feeling is the lots are not full and TU is in need of fans. We find we are going to less games each year the way it is with parking.

I can't believe I am actually reading this. Oh my god a four block walk! Oh my god a cross walk! A few paid parking lots would not be bad either too though.

 

[mcane]

I have written for years that TU needs a guard at the cross walk at Dobbs and Harvard. There are lots of folks with children trying to cross Harvard. It's difficult for them and difficult for donors exiting the Gold and Blue lots to avoid them.

 

[nevadanatural]

Goldfan and others can continue to mock people who bring up the parking issue but it's a real and correctable problem. The only time I've attended games at the Reynolds center I had my wife drop me off. When I lived in Tulsa the parking problem kept me from going to lots of football games and this was when you couldn't see them on TV.

 

[Gold*]

I see both sides of issues, but note we are talking about multiple and somewhat related related issues. They should manage the traffic much more than they do. Dobbs and Harvard needs one or two guards to manage traffic before and after games. It has been worse in recent years. My recollection is there was something like that in early days of the arena. TU should also open gates on Harvard after games so people can get out faster. Wouldn't take much effort at all.

My criticism of the donor parking system is well documented. It improved some during season. Of course there were fewer people at games.

I really don't like the way the driveway to the Reynolds Center is handled from 11th. People are trying to cross and we have to wait for parade of idiots to be told they can't park there.

The extra police costs money. People shouldn't skimp on paying for tickets or GHC donations.

The city needs to have a moratorium on construction near TU during basketball season. They always tear up 11th and Harvard during the season.

The football parking is a different world from other nearby schools. And TU has tried a bunch of ways to manage it, including shuttles from all over the city. The neighborhood to the south with its idiotic no parking policy needs a kick in the butt. If you have serious issues walking a few blocks, I suggest Uber. The reality is we are an urban campus and you are just going to have to walk if you want to park at games. They couldn't build a lot needed for all the parking without tearing down the university. Not happening.

 

[TU Sepp]

The 2 police officers on 11th St. cost the university about $100 total per game, not that big of expense.

 

[okie51]

83, I have no problem walking but my wife and grandkids do. Having to run across Harvard at night is not fun some people don't like to slow down for people crossing. Try it sometime with two kids under 10 and a wife with hip pain, in your sixty's. Uber no thanks, we will continue to watch on TV. Just IMO might be a way to increase attendance and in that might be a way to attract recruits. Cast more stones if you like it mostly a free country.

 

[drboobay]

My dad is 88 and it is now becoming an issue to walk. Cannot afford 10k for Gold parking.

Disabled parking needs to be better marked and more spots available.

This is not a complaint as we find a way to make it work sometimes begging parking from gold lot donors we know. Just an improvement suggestion.

 

[drboobay]

Back to the main subject.

Cinci is a good team. We stood toe to toe with them for 37 minutes.

IL State is a good team and we found a way to beat them.

I still think we have some high d1 talent just not quite enough. Next year will be telling.

And my intro to watching TU basketball in person was the 81 NIT run as a high schooler.

 

[astonmartin708]

The impetus for alleviating the parking /attendance situation should not be left to the fans. If TU wants to sell their product to a wider base of people they need to eliminate as many barriers as they can to the people they're selling to. Saying "take an uber" or "just park and walk a couple blocks" isn't a good strategy to appeal to a consumer. Especially a casual consumer rather than a diehard alumni. Shuttles were a solution they tried, but they extra time they take people to use can be seen as just another barrier.

Best case scenario: construct more parking.
Mean case: sell existing parking at reasonable per game prices with some lots remaining reserved.
Worst case: do nothing.

 

[TU_BLA]

About fan support, I remember going to games at the fairgrounds where parking was free and at the civic center where we paid for parking but it was an easy walk. With attendance so low TU should offer say for five bucks parking in one of the lots. We don't have season tickets because Doug took the fun out of games for us. We now park east of TU and have to cross Harvard with family. When its cold we don't go. I would pay on a per-game for parking close to the building. My feeling is the lots are not full and TU is in need of fans. We find we are going to less games each year the way it is with parking.

I would agree they need to open a few of the lots up to people who want to pay for the privilege, especially during basketball season.

 

[TU_BLA]

The impetus for alleviating the parking /attendance situation should not be left to the fans. If TU wants to sell their product to a wider base of people they need to eliminate as many barriers as they can to the people they're selling to. Saying "take an uber" or "just park and walk a couple blocks" isn't a good strategy to appeal to a consumer. Especially a casual consumer rather than a diehard alumni. Shuttles were a solution they tried, but they extra time they take people to use can be seen as just another barrier.

Best case scenario: construct more parking.
Mean case: sell existing parking at reasonable per game prices with some lots remaining reserved.
Worst case: do nothing.

They're not constructing any more lots on campus (proper). I know a cost analysis was done on the possibility of building 2 parking garages on campus to alleviate "the parking problem" students always complain about. Every on campus spot is within a 5 minute walk from the farthest point on campus. They added shuttles that run the loop almost non-stop. That was seen as a more cost effective measure than multi-level parking structures.

 

[Henry Kendall]

We take the shuttles almost every game. They are great for basketball. The problem is, they only go to donor parking lots. If I was a casual fan, it would make me very unhappy to see all of these lots that are 75% empty that I cannot park in. Even if I was willing to pay.

It is ridiculous that you cannot pay to park in those empty lots. They need to apportion those lots based on the number of GHC members that use them (they can quickly figure an average based on the last several years' worth of attendance) and sell to the public the rest.

 

[mcane]

I wonder if TU has the legal ability to construct a parking garage across Harvard near 11th in the vacant lot at the corner.
On the other hand, if GHC would start a "pay for a guard" campaign at $100/game at Dobbs at Harvard, I suspect that many of the larger donors would chip in extra. I would.

 

[astonmartin708]

We take the shuttles almost every game. They are great for basketball. The problem is, they only go to donor parking lots. If I was a casual fan, it would make me very unhappy to see all of these lots that are 75% empty that I cannot park in. Even if I was willing to pay.

It is ridiculous that you cannot pay to park in those empty lots. They need to apportion those lots based on the number of GHC members that use them (they can quickly figure an average based on the last several years' worth of attendance) and sell to the public the rest.

That's the main problem I was referencing in my post. They just need to open up the parking to per game parking fees. They could even scrap the cost of employing parking attendants by just installing electronic kiosks for payment with campo enforcing the policy.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Back to the main subject.

And my intro to watching TU basketball in person was the 81 NIT run as a high schooler.

Me too - but I was only in middle school

We're still digging out from under the terrible class imbalance that Haith inherited. It's unrealistic to bring in 9 new guys and not expect issues.

 

[Gmack22]

This is a very interesting thread. I have been a season ticket holder both football and basketball since.1997 and GHC member. I married into TU family. My wife grew up a block from Skelly and attended numerous BB games at Fairgrounds and Civic Center growing up and as an adult. She bleeds blue and gold and I do the same now. Regarding basketball, I always compare the 2000 elite 8 team to every team since. What a team!! Anyway one of the issues that is rarely discussed is getting good players that can qualify to Tulsa. I believe and have personal knowledge that DM left because he was hamstrung with entrance requirements to TU. One of the reasons he left besides the money. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't think Bill Self, Tubby, Nolan had the same restrictions that our most recent coaches have or had. And it doesn't look as though TU will be willing to adjust for this. So it will be difficult for Tulsa to ever regain the status of Gonzaga before there was a Gonzaga.

 

[drboobay]

I know the curriculum was beefed up after Nolan's time, probably early 90s. That might coincide with some entry requirement changes. Not sure.

 

[TU Sepp]

I wonder if TU has the legal ability to construct a parking garage across Harvard near 11th in the vacant lot at the corner.
On the other hand, if GHC would start a "pay for a guard" campaign at $100/game at Dobbs at Harvard, I suspect that many of the larger donors would chip in extra. I would.

Technically that area is suppose to be a green space between TU and the neighborhood that was agreed upon by both parties. I am not sure how TU gets away with using it for parking and tailgating during football season as that is a clear violation of the agreement. It is also a violation of the city code that prohibits parking on grassy areas. Same code that residents get fined for parking cars on their lawns.

 

[PhoggyBottom]

Has anyone actually seen a report or story about the supposed enhanced academic requirements for athletes? I am not disputing it is true but I have never seen anything verifying that it is actually true.

 

[Gold*]

They don't say much because of education privacy, but from talking to people who work in different capacities at the school, yes they absolutely have higher standards than other schools we compete against. It has been discussed on here numerous times with JUCO players.

I think there have been some exceptions and I think some coaches created giant headaches for school, like Wojcik, Graham, and surprisingly Blankenship's staff. I do think they made it harder to bring in JUCO players after Self. It seems like we mostly take JUCO players who were full qualifiers out of high school, but either transferred from somewhere else or were under radar. I know Wojcik also really complained about our recruiting rules, but I think it was specific to JUCO players.

Also, I think TU is usually more on top of graduation than others, but after the APR, the difference isn't as stark. And ability to graduate may affect who we take.

 

[chito_and_leon]

This is a very interesting thread. I have been a season ticket holder both football and basketball since.1997 and GHC member. I married into TU family. My wife grew up a block from Skelly and attended numerous BB games at Fairgrounds and Civic Center growing up and as an adult. She bleeds blue and gold and I do the same now. Regarding basketball, I always compare the 2000 elite 8 team to every team since. What a team!! Anyway one of the issues that is rarely discussed is getting good players that can qualify to Tulsa. I believe and have personal knowledge that DM left because he was hamstrung with entrance requirements to TU. One of the reasons he left besides the money. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't think Bill Self, Tubby, Nolan had the same restrictions that our most recent coaches have or had. And it doesn't look as though TU will be willing to adjust for this. So it will be difficult for Tulsa to ever regain the status of Gonzaga before there was a Gonzaga.

Every coach who underperforms at TU whines about the academic standards. Then another coach comes in and wins.....

 

[TU_BLA]

Has anyone actually seen a report or story about the supposed enhanced academic requirements for athletes? I am not disputing it is true but I have never seen anything verifying that it is actually true.

There are several things that TU doesn't bend much for the sake of athletics. It started in the early 90s when Donaldson was the President of the university. He did away with the HPER program that was an attractive major for JUCO's and other athletes because it didn't meet the revised academic standards and reputation the university was trying to create at the time. Look at '94-'99 and the relatively few JUCOs Rader had as well as within the basketball program. Yes, there were a few, but not nearly as many as you would see in other programs. I also know first hand how hard it was back then to get credits transferred in, even from another 4 yr private university. Everything was poured over with a fine tooth comb to make sure the hours met the standards TU wanted and it also fit in within the universities course program. If it was a class to be applied to your major, it was even tougher to get it accepted. In the early 2000s, TU changed its requirements for summer school classes as well applying the stricter standard. Also, a policy requiring all of the hours beyond sophomore year and towards your major must be earned at TU meaning you couldn't take a required class at OSU or OU even. Sometime around 2002 the HPER program was reinstated but with higher academic standards incorporating classes from the College of Education, College of Nursing, and the. Athletic training dept. I know several of the professors who worked on the task force to create a program that met the academic standards/reputation TU was building. There have been concessions the last few years I'm sure but you still see kids/athletes flunking out of TU so it is still a difficult place to stay at once you get there.

 

[astonmartin708]

Also, you can't retake a class at any other school than TU and have it count for credit. So if a kid goes to JUCO to improve his grades, it can't be via retaken classes. Just new ones.

 

[I.I.]

It is extremely rare at TU for an athlete, regardless of academic ability, to flunk a class if they attend every class possible and listen in class. I took a Lifelong learning class at TU last semester and one football player attended three times the whole semester. The team was out of town to cause 4-5 absences but not 20 times. The teacher mentioned that good attendance would allow you to pass the course.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

Manning leaving TU for the academic wasteland of Wake Forest and the ACC is a new one.