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The story you didn’t hear today

The US just passed a significant milestone. In 3 months we saw more deaths than the entire US fatality population (combat and civilian) of the Vietnam War. We've also surpassed the entire combat death number of US forces in WWI. Next we will be pushing for the number of combat deaths for the Union (110K) or Confederacy (90K) respectively and then combined during the civil war.
 
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Sure you want to pick that hill to die on?

I say this with the utmost respect: I don’t know you, but if your behavior here reflects your sincere beliefs and isn’t just some juvenile act, then I think you may be mentally unbalanced. A juvenile act wouldn’t reflect much better. You should seek professional help. There’s no shame in it. But in any case, I am ignoring you now.
LOL jump on that ship. It’s sinking, that boat you’re in you just don’t realize it. Biden is going to plug those holes for you, though. I promise. He cometh to thy rescue.
 
False. CNN is much better than Fox or whatever crap you get your info from. You are incapable of understanding reality. You are just a racist moron.
More ad homonym attacks. They just keep showing their sheer lack of ability to think critically or even muster a sentence demonstrating real intelligence. At least, they have a candidate that matches their intellect/critical thinking.
 
Conservatives were quick to point out that the people who invested fish tank cleaner were not Trump supporters & there was even evidence early on that the woman may have orchestrated it to kill her husband. Well, guess what? Now Mesa, AZ homicide unit has launched an investigation into this man’s death. CNN stood by their stories that blamed Trump for the death.

 
The US just passed a significant milestone. In 3 months we saw more deaths than the entire US fatality population (combat and civilian) of the Vietnam War. We've also surpassed the entire combat death number of US forces in WWI. Next we will be pushing for the number of combat deaths for the Union (110K) or Confederacy (90K) respectively and then combined during the civil war.
I doubt that about WW1. But actually the numbers aren't the same. The deaths in war are totally man made. It is claimed that these are from natural causes or helped by China. The pandemic after WWI might not have happened or been as severe without the war. VN was part and parcel of the long term hostilities between the two world powers existing in the 1950s and 1960s. War casualties include loss of arms, legs, hearing, vision, PTSD. Don't forget Agent Orange.
 
I doubt that about WW1. But actually the numbers aren't the same. The deaths in war are totally man made. It is claimed that these are from natural causes or helped by China. The pandemic after WWI might not have happened or been as severe without the war. VN was part and parcel of the long term hostilities between the two world powers existing in the 1950s and 1960s. War casualties include loss of arms, legs, hearing, vision, PTSD. Don't forget Agent Orange.
The US entered late into both world wars, but especially late in WWI. The US had some extremely large casualty actions (St. Mihiel for example is the 2nd deadliest battle in US history with 4,500 KIA) but the US was only in the war for a little over a year. Our entry completely turned the tide. We declared war in April 1917 and Armistice Day happened November 1918. Nations like France, Germany, and the UK had substantially more casualties and deaths than we did.

The Spanish Flu happened DURING the US's entry into the war, not after it. That's exactly why the pandemic was so bad.








Finally, I made sure to say combat deaths not casualties in my comparison. I'm aware there are more effects of combat than just deaths. My dad was treated until his death (unrelated car accident) by the VA for agent orange exposure btw.
 
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Much of the deaths from WW1 came back with returning soldiers, so the world wide total may not be after the war, but most in this country happened after the war. The term Spanish Flu is an intentional misnomer, because no country wanted the name attached to them. Our overseas influenza deaths were less severe because General Pershing would have none of trench warfare and kept control of our troops rather than splitting them into various line troops as the other allies wanted.

Yes, I am on the Agent Orange registry. There was little avoiding it because in the remote places the Mess Tent might be near the landing area. Helicopters do tend to stir up the dust and everything in it.
 
Emergency_hospital_during_Influenza_epidemic%2C_Camp_Funston%2C_Kansas_-_NCP_1603.jpg


Soldiers from Fort Riley, Kansas, ill with Spanish flu at a hospital ward at Camp Funston.

The Spanish flu, also known as the 1918 flu pandemic, was an unusually deadly influenza pandemic. Lasting almost 36 months from January 1918 to December 1920, it infected 500 million people – about a third of the world's population at the time.[2] The death toll is estimated to have been anywhere from 17 million to 50 million, and possibly as high as 100 million, making it one of the deadliest pandemics in human history.

Many of the Spanish Flu's illnesses lasted well passed the end of the war. Nice hospital huh?
 
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Much of the deaths from WW1 came back with returning soldiers, so the world wide total may not be after the war, but most in this country happened after the war. The term Spanish Flu is an intentional misnomer, because no country wanted the name attached to them. Our overseas influenza deaths were less severe because General Pershing would have none of trench warfare and kept control of our troops rather than splitting them into various line troops as the other allies wanted.

Yes, I am on the Agent Orange registry. There was little avoiding it because in the remote places the Mess Tent might be near the landing area. Helicopters do tend to stir up the dust and everything in it.
Wow, I had no idea you were over there. I hope you have never suffered any ill effects, TUMe. Thank you for your service in Vietnam.

I get what you are saying. Massive devastating events like world wars (and pandemics) kill in numerous ways, and not all of them are combat related or even happen to people fighting at all. Spanish Flu is a good example, as it probably wouldn't have happened without WW1. Adding up all the "related deaths" is therefore difficult and usually reveals a much more devastating toll. Agent Orange deaths that still occur probably don't go into the Vietnam numbers either, but are obviously related. Similarly, what about workers and first responders in the WTC that died from suspicious cancers a couple of years after 9/11? They didn't die in the attack, but they ought to be counted in some of the expanded metrics. So what is the "correct" number of 9/11 deaths, or Vietnam deaths, or WW1 deaths? It kind of depends on the metric. By some arguments, you could even count combat fatalities in Afghanistan as "9/11 related". I don't think any such expanded count is "wrong" or "right", as long as you clearly state what it is you are counting and are consistent with your methodology. They are just different numbers based on different definitions, some of which may be admittedly tenuous. Pick the definition you like and go with it, but then try to be consistent if you are trying to compare death tolls from different events. Counting all WW1 'related' deaths to those who strictly died only of complications from contracting COVID is apples to oranges.

Then there are the true edge cases like lawpoke likes to bring up. What about someone on hospice that is days away from death that contracts covid and dies? To those, I just kind of shrug my shoulders as there likely aren't very many of those truly disputable deaths. Consider: If someone has a massive heart attack while driving on the highway and then has a terrible accident with a huge amount of trauma, is it a heart attack death or a car accident death? You'd have to do a pretty detailed autopsy to know for sure what killed them first, and I am honestly not sure it really matters. A little of column A, and a little of column B. Maybe neither would have done it alone, but the combo did. Then what? Does anyone other than the coroner really even care? It won't statistically affect the number of highway deaths/heart disease deaths no matter how you count it.

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I will definitely agree that WW1 was a much more devastating global disaster than COVID has been so far. But COVID is ongoing and we don't know how it will end yet. Noticing that it surpasses other touchstone death tolls like WW1 combat deaths isn't someone arguing that it is a worse disaster than that event in terms of all human and economic cost. It is just a simple way of noticing that whatever it's final place in the strata of worldwide disasters will be, it is going to be in the mix.
 
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Emergency_hospital_during_Influenza_epidemic%2C_Camp_Funston%2C_Kansas_-_NCP_1603.jpg


Soldiers from Fort Riley, Kansas, ill with Spanish flu at a hospital ward at Camp Funston.

The Spanish flu, also known as the 1918 flu pandemic, was an unusually deadly influenza pandemic. Lasting almost 36 months from January 1918 to December 1920, it infected 500 million people – about a third of the world's population at the time.[2] The death toll is estimated to have been anywhere from 17 million to 50 million, and possibly as high as 100 million, making it one of the deadliest pandemics in human history.

Many of the Spanish Flu's illnesses lasted well passed the end of the war. Nice hospital huh?
The US; however, was heaviest hit in terms of the outbreak during the war, and we were one of the epicenters of it early on. The first two waves traveled through the US by late 1918. (October was the deadliest month for it). The third wave in 1919 primarily effected Spain, Serbia, Mexico and Great Britain
 
Comparing deaths from wars to illness again doesn't strike me as useful. We passed that "milestone" a few years ago in a bad flu outbreak and it doesn't make sense to compare that either.
 
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Comparing deaths from wars to illness again doesn't strike me as useful. We passed that "milestone" a few years ago in a bad flu outbreak and it doesn't make sense to compare that either.
^This too. Different kind of disaster, and deaths is only one aspect of each.
 
Thanks, Clong, I am mostly good. I had a mild heart attack 7 years ago, ischemic heart disease is presumptive for agent orange, three stents on widow maker (2) and circumflex. Lost weight on purpose and go to the gym regularly OH no the gym is closed since march! I walk outside and no machines. No heating or air.

Yes, it is very hard to compare serious injuries versus deaths. The rows of beds in the picture with windows for ventilation make you think that many may have died who wouldn't today, but the influenza still kills large numbers.
 
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Comparing deaths from wars to illness again doesn't strike me as useful. We passed that "milestone" a few years ago in a bad flu outbreak and it doesn't make sense to compare that either.
This outbreak has been comparable to if not worse than almost every single flu outbreak in recent memory but it's done it in only in 2 months (compared to an entire year's worth of flu statistics) and it's done it while killing more than just the elderly like the flu typically has.
 
This outbreak has been comparable to if not worse than almost every single flu outbreak in recent memory but it's done it in only in 2 months (compared to an entire year's worth of flu statistics) and it's done it while killing more than just the elderly like the flu typically has.

That sounds like a good comparison to use then rather than war deaths.
 
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^This too. Different kind of disaster, and deaths is only one aspect of each.
The comparison that I would make is in costs and benefits.

For example, this outbreak has cost the US 60K lives (in 2 months) and roughly 1.3 trillion in federal spending (with more coming from the states). With 1 million infections, and counting. The 1.3 trillion has been used to protect the lives of millions via subsidizing isolation.

By contrast, we spent 1.01 trillion on the Iraq war in addition to a cost of 5K lives, and the benefits of "keeping the US citizens safe" of that war have been dubious at best.

We almost spend as many (nearly) useless dollars to keep the military complex going (with some added benefits like oil price wars and Sadaam being out of office) than we do to insure the continued existence of our citizenry. If it took on roughly, $3150 / citizen (1.01T / 320 MM) to dubiously "keep each US citizen safe" for the Iraq war. We're spending around the same amount to combat this outbreak, but the cost in terms of safety (60K vs. 5K) and the degree to which this threat is tangible and evident to our own population is much greater than it was in situations like Vietnam or Iraq.

What the death tolls tell me when compared to war, is that we tend to be more willing to spend $ on war than we are on helping people during times of life threatening illness, which just shouldn't be the case.
 
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You have just got to politicize this.
Yeah... sometimes when thousands of citizens are dying (not all the elderly in this case mind you).... people tend to have political opinions about the issue. That applies when people are fighting in jungles and rice patties, or when people are bombing federal buildings in Oklahoma City, or when they fly planes into buildings in New York, or when they're dying in hospital beds across the country.

Political opinions are just opinions on what our values and priorities as a society should be.
 
The number of people killed by coronavirus is now more than 200 times as many people who died taking selfies in 2018. Really makes you think
 
The number of people killed by coronavirus is now more than 200 times as many people who died taking selfies in 2018. Really makes you think
Oh, so now we're gonna politicize selfies? Good. Let's get rid of them. Remember when you had to actually talk to a stranger to ask them to take your picture.... let's go back to that.
 
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Neither party listened to my proposals for common sense selfie laws including the banning of extended selfie sticks and the transport of all males named Chad to Guantanamo
 
thank you for that totally inaccurate assessment of me.
Similar to cnn you make baseless comments with absolutely no facts

You say a lot of stupid things. People don’t like you. No one other than you had disagreed with me so far.

CNN is better then their competitors. You haven’t even tried to refute that because you probably can’t afford to watch either.
 
The US entered late into both world wars, but especially late in WWI. The US had some extremely large casualty actions (St. Mihiel for example is the 2nd deadliest battle in US history with 4,500 KIA) but the US was only in the war for a little over a year. Our entry completely turned the tide. We declared war in April 1917 and Armistice Day happened November 1918. Nations like France, Germany, and the UK had substantially more casualties and deaths than we did.

The Spanish Flu happened DURING the US's entry into the war, not after it. That's exactly why the pandemic was so bad.








Finally, I made sure to say combat deaths not casualties in my comparison. I'm aware there are more effects of combat than just deaths. My dad was treated until his death (unrelated car accident) by the VA for agent orange exposure btw.
You do realize that no one is going to take the time to look into your propaganda? Pennsylvania just took off hundreds of COVID deaths, adjusting their statewide number to a lower number than previously reported, right? I have (somewhat) direct knowledge of this as hospital execs are inflating the numbers. The question is “are deaths up?” in general vs normal times & the answer to that question is yes in a few states but in most it is not. The H1N1 was worse in more states than this virus is. It’s important to not ignore facts that go against what you believe.
 
Please, if you try to “gotcha” something I said, at least, include evidence of any sort. Any type of thing I’ve ever said that is contradictory. Anything. You can’t just quote something I said & act like it’s rule. Fccn punk
 
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