You act as if he is not mentally capable of making decisions for himself. That is not the case. If you had him in front of you, I think your viewpoint would be different. He is not as far gone as some people are making him out to be. No time pressure would have made that clearer.
The First Debate
- Thread starter HuffyCane
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Robert Hur, who spent hours interviewing Biden 1v1 might disagree with that assessment. The reports were there. The videos were there. The whispers were there. Biden’s friends (political and in the media) covered for him. I don’t know how diminished his capacity but when his friends and the NYTs are asking him to drop out of the race due to his age there’s something there. I assume the phrase “drop out due to his age” has something to due to mental capacity and ability to lead. On a related note, has anyone watched him walk lately? He’s shuffling and struggling with any type of stairs. Watch him try to exit the stage last night. I’m not an elder care expert but there’s certainly diminished physical capacity as well. Doesn’t really affect his ability to govern like cognitive but I still found the physical decline the last 4 years troubling.
Seriously people we are only arguing about of degree of decline. Everyone sees decline.
Let us assume the worst as a thought experiment. Let us say he has dementia for sake of argument.
Under that assumption there are some of us who will still vote Biden over Trump including me. There are others who would not vote for this reason. Or vote Kennedy.
I suspect the Trump voters are the Trump voters regardless. For the most part.
Now repeat the scenario with Biden having mild cognitive impairment. Same formula.
It is a recipe for a Trump win, either way. His degree of decline seems to be kind of irrelevant.
Let us assume the worst as a thought experiment. Let us say he has dementia for sake of argument.
Under that assumption there are some of us who will still vote Biden over Trump including me. There are others who would not vote for this reason. Or vote Kennedy.
I suspect the Trump voters are the Trump voters regardless. For the most part.
Now repeat the scenario with Biden having mild cognitive impairment. Same formula.
It is a recipe for a Trump win, either way. His degree of decline seems to be kind of irrelevant.
If it’s irrelevant why are Democrats in mass panicking about said decline or the perception thereof? Why did the NYTs ask him to drop out of the race? His degree of decline is going to be THE STORY over the next few months imo. Unfortunately for the Dems it takes the focus from Trump’s long list of problems….at least temporarily. What a crappy situation this country finds itself.
Democrats were nervous nellies, and waiting to jump on a performance that did anything other than put Biden back in front. Talking heads were waiting on a situation just like this. They've been like this since Biden has gone down in the polls recently, especially in the battleground states.(since the first part of the year) They have been chomping at the bit to come out like this. That's why you see so many liberal talking heads tearing him apart. Both the liberal and the conservatives want it to be this way, so it is. If the liberal media wanted to fight this, you would see a different story coming from their side, but they don't think they can win. Doesn't make the reality any different, only appearances are different.
I can’t imagine that Biden and his liberal media allies won’t regroup and come out in unison with a different narrative and message which they believe gives Biden the best chance of success in November. To be fair, they really have no alternatives. Especially when they realize they are stuck with Biden as the party’s nominee. Their tone will surely change. They have no better options.
It's irrelevant because either way, the impression is a Trump win. Appearances are paramount. That's why they are panicking. The media does not care how severe his decline is. They care that either way, it does not pull Biden out of a losing campaign. They want any candidate that can beat Trump, and the general feeling is that Biden doesn't fit that bill.
Far too early to say Biden can’t beat Trump imo. 90 plus days is an eternity in politics. Much can and will happen. This race isn’t over despite what some of the talking heads are spouting. Trump is the favorite but Biden is still in this race.
All this stuff like the NY Times Board calling for his resignation, will all come out in the next few days. There will probably be more. If he doesn't resign in the next week or two, then the narrative will change fairly quickly.
I’m not sure I agree with you, but the networks definitely want the drama of a brokered convention. Can you imagine if they do a smoke filled room and a complete unknown like a sixth choice like Lincoln is selected?
More people would watch someone like Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo accept the nomination than the moon landing.
More people would watch someone like Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo accept the nomination than the moon landing.
You have more confidence in him and the narrative than I do. I think the chances of Biden turning this around are about 5 chances in 100.
By the way, if someone has serious cognitive decline due to age, you don't generally see them finish the debate(or whatever it is that they are involved in) stronger than they started it. It usually all gets worse as the the event continues. The democrats will have decent arguments to go the other direction with it. It's just hard to take it in the direction they are taking it,(calls for resignation) and then reverse course with any success, no matter how good the arguments are or aren't.
I don’t have a lot of confidence in Biden either. I likewise don’t have much confidence Trump can go 90 straight days without a major screw up which might swing the race back in Biden’s favor.
He has totally different people managing him this time. Different campaign. Very focused. He gets to be himself when the lights are on. There’s no stopping or managing that. But the mistakes and infighting of 2020 behind the scenes are gone. If he does something that turns off voters, it will be live. It won’t be random policy gaffes or eating dinner with strange characters etc.
People are forgetting he may be in jail in a couple of days.
I don't think Trump is going to fu it up that badly. He'd have to screw a hooker and get caught on video, say something worse than there's a lot of good people here, or Hitler had some good points, to screw this up bad enough to lose.
By the way, Trump showed a lot more reserve than he has shown in office or in any of his campaigns, at the debate. It's not much of a bar to clear. He kept his barbs fairly reserved and limited in # for himself. There would have been a lot more nasty barbs coming out of his mouth in the past. He would have constantly pushed the time limits, and tried to speak over Biden before. I only saw him do this a couple of times, and it was over in 5 sec or less. He barely made fun of his mental problems, maybe once that I can recall. He would have used nicknames much more prevalently. He intimately called him Joe(not sleepy joe) Trump let a lot of points go, that Biden laid open for Trump to get nasty over. Trump was no angel, he just was in comparison to past performances.
If Trump had followed these kinds of advice in 2020, he might have still been in office, god forbid.
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That’s all Susie. He doesn’t have first time campaign managers running the show this time.
The difference is he is listening to them. I guess that's what losing the last election does to you.
There were dozens of people who did a disservice to him and the nation in 2020. I think he knows that.
He’s old. We get it Poke. Christ.
What is astounding is that he’s able to remember as many facts and figures as he was able to. Most people that age can’t do that even in a limited capacity.
That all being said, even if he had a foot in the coffin he would still be a better choice than Trump. Honestly it would be better to see a regency council than allow Trump to step foot in the whitehouse again. Trump’s behavior last night made that abundantly clear.
You will not ever convince me that a disservice was done to him, and that's why he lost. He did a disservice to the nation his entire time in office. And the only disservice done to Trump was by DJT. He didn't listen to people through his campaigns or his term in office. He had several good advisors that tried to help him acclimate to the office and guide him in the right direction.(Mattis, Tillerson, etc) He didn't listen to any of the decent advisers in office, and quickly replaced them. Funny that he was bragging on this in the debate.
There were several times he was getting advise on the campaign trail(in all of his campaigns) and in office, and he did the exact opposite, and had trouble over it. I heard it from the grapevine that you might have worked for the Trump campaign/administration in some form. Just wondering if that was true. Thought if it was true it would be nice for this board to know that there was some bias.
He may be listening Miss Wiles because he respects her, he may be listening to her because he lost the last election. I probably think its a little bit of both. I hope Susie is a moderate,(as she claims) I hope he takes her on as an advisor/secretary in office, I hope he kicks pieces of crap out of his unofficial advisers in the cabinet.(like Stephen Miller & Roger Stone) I hope he becomes more moderate and abandons his past term. But I'm not holding my breath.
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Still a proponent of the big lie eh?
Lemme ask you this… Putin vs Jimmy Carter (in his wheelchair today) in a 1 vs 1 race… for the US presidency… Who are you voting for?
I feel like I already know your answer.
lol. I wasn’t trying to be specific to Hitler. I’m basically referring to any far right despot. Though, given the choice between “Malaise” and Invading Poland, I think Huffy would be Goose Stepping so fast it would make your head spin.
Funny, but a valid question. He is trying get at the point of how partisan is a person. Either one works for this question. Drink anyway.
The equivalent on the other side of the scales might be, between GWB and Castro. For me that’s an easy choice despite the fact that I despise Bush.
I think Trump and her, seem to have co dependent personalities with their needs and desires. Her father being an alcoholic prepared her for Trump. I'm sure her being a 'victim' of Desantis was a nice avenue to use with Trump when she got hired for the 2020 campaign. She seems to love loyalty and revenge, so they've got that in common. She also seems to be pretty adept at, and comfortable with manipulation. Her being involved in his 2020 campaign, but not heading it, seems to have set her up to make the argument that she needs to be the head of the snake for 2024. Trump bought whatever argument she pitched. Especially since his main competitor at the time was DeSantis. I'm positive the pitch was heavily laced with how to handle DeSantis. He knew her first goal to take out DeSantis for revenge met with his goals and probably satisfied Trump in ways others couldn't, on a pleasure level.
The thing I pulled out of the conclusion of the article that I'm sure you read in Politico, was unease with her reaction to Jan 6. I didn't feel comfortable at all with her compartmentalizing Jan 6. The journalist was completely on target with this observation. It makes me feel ill at ease with her as a possible adviser. (He was completely on target as well, with her relation to alcoholism playing a serious role with Trump. It's the, all alcoholics have some sense of narcissism, but not all narcissists are alcoholics kind of relationship.)
I see similarities between her and Nikki Haley who changes her stripes repetitively, with how she viewed Jan 6, and how she sees Trump as not the same guy that did all the stuff he's done. (She buys that he is reformed? SMH) I know the machinations in the thought process aren't much different between Wiles and Nikki, but there is a difference that leaves me fairly comfortable with Nikki, and more than a little uneasy with Miss Wiles. First off, I believe Nikki is more aware of herself, and knows what she is doing when she does it, and knows why she is doing it. Susie's feelings on Jan 6, seem more a subconscious reaction that she's not as aware of, and not as in control of, when she comes to these kind of conclusions It makes me think that could be a regular event for Susie, without any real thought about it's full consequences.
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End of day cognitive impairment is something people who have had elderly relatives with dementia are familiar with
They are making excuses. They might as well give it up. Hope the world doesn't come crashing down after 4p, is going to be the reaction to this.
You can't defend this against attacks from the outside, in a campaign. He as well as Reagan were able to finish their terms without too much fuss. But neither could have won another term very easily.
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R
Reagan is a good example. He had obviously slipped the last year or so of his second term. Nancy constantly covered for him. Much like Jill does for Biden.
Meanwhile you have this idiot who shouldn’t be trusted to manage a Wendy’s….
User Clip: Donald Trump derides electric planes
Trump asks "What happens <i>to electric planes</i> if the sun isn't shining while you're up in the air?"
Ain't No Sunshine when she's gone electric, electric, electric.(Meanwhile you have this idiot who shouldn’t be trusted to manage a Wendy’s….
User Clip: Donald Trump derides electric planes
Trump asks "What happens <i>to electric planes</i> if the sun isn't shining while you're up in the air?"www.c-span.org
Fairly confident he was talking about solar planes as electric planes of any size aren’t currently feasible due to the weight of the batteries required to store the energy.Meanwhile you have this idiot who shouldn’t be trusted to manage a Wendy’s….
User Clip: Donald Trump derides electric planes
Trump asks "What happens <i>to electric planes</i> if the sun isn't shining while you're up in the air?"
