If I’m running to be the leader of the free world and what might be the toughest most demanding job in the world I hope they are very critical. 80 is simply too old in almost all circumstances to be President of the U.S. I can almost guarantee when I’m 80 I won’t be up to that job.
The First Debate
- Thread starter HuffyCane
- Start date
I disagree on point 1. There are too many undecideds that wouldn't be convinced on point 1. It would take more than those two arguments. I agree on argument 2. If there was a point 3, and maybe 4, as strong with the audience as point 2, then I would agree. And yes the facts and numbers were not beneficial in this type of debate, and didn't lend to Bidens debate tactics. If Trump had employed facts/numbers/statistics as heavily, I'm don't think he would have done well either. Would have evened the playing field at least a little, maybe a lot.
I don't think the hosts of the debate affected Trump or Biden negatively or positively. Seemed pretty even keeled of a debate as far as the network and hosts were concerned. @lawpoke87
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Not sure what you’re watching. These clips are from CNN and MSNBC. Some of the most far left outlets in the US. Heck Chris Wallace on CNN all but says “that is all Biden as left cognitively”.
Agreed. Most defense related decisions are 30 minute+ decisions though, not seconds or minutes decisions. A 30 minute+ conference with his generals & Secretary of Defense would allow Biden to come to an ajudicated response.
I disagree on Kamala though. If I were to pick between Kamala & Biden, I'd pick Biden every time for all decisions, defense included. I wish Biden had chosen a different VP for his second term. Those undecideds that think Biden might die during his next term are not too happy about the idea of Kamala taking office. Way too progressive
One, I don't like talking heads opinions on issues like this. Two, he lost the debate and that is what concerns them. Most of those talking heads knew where his mental abilities were before the debate. He looked weak to the general public, and that is the source of their panic, not because they think he is a doddering old fool. They react to the way they THINK the public will react, not reality.
This isn’t Fox. This is CNN and MSNBC. These people seem truly shocked by his performance. They appear to have had no idea Biden was in such a state. If they aren’t shocked then they are all superb actors.
I don't care which network it is. And for the most part, they are superb actors. You don't think they have been on camera this long, and aren't able to cover up their feelings? I don't place Tucker Carlson and the like's acting abilities above the liberal network hosts. Tucker & friend talked the talk on the air, and said other wise in private texts with each other. If you don't think they could be convincing about something like this, I might have some swamp land to sell you.
Ripped from the headlines of Fox news, superficial descriptions of Trumps voice, not mental deficiencies.
Dems concerned as sharp attacks from Trump put raspy Biden on the ropes during high-stakes debate
Biden ripped for 'old' appearance, 'weak' voice during first presidential debate: 'Deeply alarming'
Lawpoke , you didn't really seem to be answering this post when you quoted it, so I assume were just continuing the conversation. I tagged you just about the talk on hosts being biased, if that's what confused you.
No matter how many people you quote me, I know what are signs of mental deficiencies from personal experience, and from multiple experiences with people who have had those problems. I watched the same debate, and did not jump to the media's outlets until I had written my opinion here, because I am confident that my opinion is valid. I watched it, after the fact on youtube, to avoid seeing media reaction, before I voiced my own opinion on it. I did this intentionally, so as not be pre influenced by the media's reactions.
My views are developed from my having had the difficulties I have had, and through my witness of several people around me, after having had my problems. I have had several close up, long term experiences with people who have had dementia in various stages, concussions, aneurysms, and also stages of elderly cognitive declines. The only persons I would have a debate with on signs of mental decline and place any serious validity in their opinions are doctors and those in the medical field.(not talking heads in the media) I often read articles and studies on related subjects. And even then, most of those doctors would not have gone through what I have gone through, such that I would place just as much validity in my opinions, as I do in those of medical professionals.
There are only mild 1st stage signs of mental cognitive deficiencies in Biden. That's not to say it couldn't come on quickly, and reach fourth stage in several months. But at the moment, I am fairly secure in my evaluation of where Biden is right now. The only way I would be more secure is to sit down and have a long conversation with him, possibly over several days, in person. You can quote whatever talking heads you want, but they are worried about the general publics view. That view might match their own, but if it does, then it is likely flawed by their prejudiced and/or unknowledged* view of what it means to have elderly mental deficiencies from various causes.
* unknowledged (Old word not used prevalently since the 16th century, but the best descriptive in this instance.)
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If last night was startling to you or disappointing, you haven’t been paying attention.
People still ask me how Trump is so popular and you saw the reason why last night.
He is popular because a majority of this nation deeply distrusts the cabal that allows the Biden Presidency to continue despite the fact it is clearly not in the best interests of this country. And they have been persuaded that Trump is the only option to stop such a self interested/self perpetuating ruling class. Mostly because the leadership of their own party has let them down in the past.
The 25th Amendment takes the Vice President and a majority of the Cabinet. If it’s contested, the removal must be ratified by a two-thirds majority of both houses of Congress. I struggle to discern any cogent argument that refutes the notion that removal from office, not just the ticket, shouldn’t happen today.
The good of the country demands it. Even if it means five years of every hare brained Democratic policy being attempted before it fails.
People still ask me how Trump is so popular and you saw the reason why last night.
He is popular because a majority of this nation deeply distrusts the cabal that allows the Biden Presidency to continue despite the fact it is clearly not in the best interests of this country. And they have been persuaded that Trump is the only option to stop such a self interested/self perpetuating ruling class. Mostly because the leadership of their own party has let them down in the past.
The 25th Amendment takes the Vice President and a majority of the Cabinet. If it’s contested, the removal must be ratified by a two-thirds majority of both houses of Congress. I struggle to discern any cogent argument that refutes the notion that removal from office, not just the ticket, shouldn’t happen today.
The good of the country demands it. Even if it means five years of every hare brained Democratic policy being attempted before it fails.
STFU. You do not get to nominate a person who tried to overthrow democracy (among a litany of other terrible things) constantly espouse him, his administration, and his policy positions for years and then blame the DNC for him being popular.
Trump is not popular because of Biden, he's popular because you're not as intelligent as you think you are. Same thing for many of your conservative comrades.
And by the way, last night was startling to many not only because Biden came off as old, but also because many people recognized how terrible Trump was and felt like they couldn't do anything about it. The good of the country demands that the RNC not promote a person unfit for office to hold the office, same as the DNC.
I’m not a doctor and I readily acknowledge you know far more about this area than I ever will but after watching Biden debate in 2020 and then again last night my eyes tell me he has declined rather significantly and I don’t believe I’m alone in that opinion.
You’re not wrong. The problem is, even if Biden had come out on the stage and literally crapped his pants he (and the people around him) would still be a better option than someone who has malicious intent and is incompetent.
I will draw an analogy…. When historians judge who was the worst British Monarch King George III’s name doesn’t even appear on the list, even though he lost the Americas and suffered dementia in his later years… they instead say John who was tyrannical and incompetent was far and away the worst.
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The problem for Biden and the Dems is a majority of people without strong political bias do not share the beliefs of partisans like yourself. Without those “independent” minded voters a candidate cannot win the presidency. Most will not vote for what they saw on the stage last night represented the Dem party imo. Still four months to go and a lot of things could change but there are valid reasons why the Dems are in panic mode. Reasons that are self inflicted.
That is the one thing I don't have in my memory banks quite as well as I should have, for comparison. Especially the older Biden stuff like in the 70's and 80's. I might go back at some point and do a little research on past debates that might be available for me to watch, as a base point.
I saw the other day that Gallup had polls nationwide and in swing states of likely voters registered as Dem. Majorities in both believe he is too old and should not run. Why Gallup sat on that info until now is your guess.
You question whether he has had a series of micro strokes. Not uncommon at his age.
You frequently miss the nuance of what I type. I would love to know the polling numbers of registered Republicans and their thoughts about a Kamala Harris/Barack Obama ticket in 2024. My sense is a majority would be OK with that compared to another four years of what we saw on the stage last night. And that’s likely what would happen if they invoke the 25th Amendment. They won’t do that. All they need is a majority of the unelected SuperDelegates to prevent his nomination. It will be interesting to see if there is appetite for that. I think not. Republicans freaked out over the Access Hollywood tape but stayed the course. The same likely will happen here.
Exit question: if the man is so abhorrent as you say he is, why do a majority of Americans put him above their confidence in the policies you cling to?
Not nominating the candidate the people voted for assuming he doesn’t drop out would raise questions of subverting democracy. Can’t imagine the Dems want to go there.
Definitely possible, but I don't see a lot of the symptoms that could be there.(I say could instead of would, because those symptoms don't exist every time after a micro stroke.) If I were guessing, my guess is it would be early stages of age related memory loss & decline, rather than micro strokes. But I wouldn't bet on that guess. I didn't see any significant loss of executive function, but that is difficult to judge from the limited confines of the debate.
Maybe because the voters have only two choices, and neither is good. I don't think any policies clung to, conservative or liberal, have a candidate that represents those ideas well.
You think they were more impressed by Trump’s consistent and blatant lies and they’re in ready to favor him in addition to forgetting about everything they knew about him from prior to last night?
If so, then these independents you speak of need to seriously sit down and consider the potential consequences of their actions.
Yes. Last night reinforced the narrative that Biden lacks the mental ability to lead the country. Hell the NYTs wrote this am that he was too old to fulfill the duties of President. Trump picked up voters last night. A fact which is why the Dems are in panic mode over Biden’s performance.
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Which is why he should step forward like Johnson and announce he won’t seek another term.
Even if the public's impression of the debate, and whether Biden is capable of leading our country is inaccurate, it doesn't matter now. The public's impression will not change. I doubt he is capable of a second debate that rises much if any above the first debate, and that is what is necessary now. He would have to have a strong second debate performance, and at worst, spar on an even level with Trump. I doubt that will happen, and even then he might not win.
Even if he is only in the first stages of cognitive loss, he likely will move past that stage during the next four years. He should drop out. I don't know that there is a candidate in the Democratic party that is capable of winning the election, but Biden will lose if he stays in.
Even if he is only in the first stages of cognitive loss, he likely will move past that stage during the next four years. He should drop out. I don't know that there is a candidate in the Democratic party that is capable of winning the election, but Biden will lose if he stays in.
Never really understood why people act like Biden is some nice old man. He was one of the most mean spirited people in politics for decades. Still, his family should feel some kind of shame. I cannot imagine rolling my grandpa with dementia out in front of people on TV to embarrass himself over and over so people forever remember him that way.
Trump would have looked like an incoherent rambling old man himself if he didn’t have Biden to contrast himself with.
Trump would have looked like an incoherent rambling old man himself if he didn’t have Biden to contrast himself with.
I will. Given no better alternative. In the race to the bottom Trump still leads.
I don't like any I have seen. Yet. Maybe one will emerge.
The support of a lot of people does not necessarily result in the elevation of a good leader. I’ve seen this play out on big stages and small stages. Many stupid people are swayed simply by bravado. It’s only when those leaders can’t (or won’t) back up that bravado with effective governance and instead take advantage for themselves or close allies that people realize they screwed up.
That works both ways, so would Biden.(be foolish) The only difference is Biden would have something to gain, despite him more than likely having a similar performance.
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I always have to remind myself…. Think about how smart the average American is…. Now 50% of them are dumber than that.
If Trump has one thing, it's bravado. The less intelligent you are the more you can be won over by nothing more than bravado. That's why he goes over so well with the less intelligent members of the Republican party. And bravado holds more sway in the Republican party over the past 40 years. Clinton and Biden had some bravado, Clinton more than Biden. Obama was mostly quiet confidence. Reagan, Bush Jr, & Trump had tons of bravado, more than any modern Democrat. Bush Sr, not so much, on bravado.
I hate that Biden was a little more dishonest in this debate. Almost every politician is more honest than Trump. But Biden being more dishonest than he has been before, on a couple of three points, tells me that all politicians running for President will take permission from Trump to be more dishonest than in any modern presidential elections before 2016. Trump always sets the bar for dishonesty, but other politicians jacked their bars up a notch or two to do battle him, Biden included. When Trump is six feet under for 20 years, his only legacy will likely be bringing less honesty to the Presidential elections.
It’s a person with a clearly diminished mental capacity and a group of family and friends who are comfortable humiliating him. Sad regardless of the what the issue is
If for nothing else, to say to the Republican party, we won't stand for another candidate like this. We want better. They won't get that much legislation through if Biden won. That stalemate is better than Trump at the helm.
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