The Day of Reckoning Upon Us!

[shon46]

One thing is clear...........one side will be proved right and one side will be proved wrong. The Dems and main stream media took a hard Core stance on the virus, encouraging people to stay for extended periods of time at home while most Republicans later took the opposite stance. I see millions of Americans marching, protesting, and rioting in very close quarters and many without masks. If people don’t start dropping left and right over the next 14 days from the virus, all restrictions on daily life to include football and especially voting in mass at the polls come November should be immediately lifted!

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I rarely buy the argument that one group is right and one group is wrong. It is not a black and white argument. The Democrats went to far with their arguments of shutting everything down completely for an indefinite amount of time, and so did the Republicans who are generally arguing to open everything up fairly immediately and are fighting masks and distancing, and the medical advisers in a fairly strong way. There is a middle ground that is lost in the argument between far left and far right.

 

[shon46]

I rarely buy the argument that one group is right and group is wrong. It is not a black and white argument. The Democrats went to far with their arguments of shutting everything down completely for an indefinite amount of time, and so did the Republicans who are generally arguing to open everything up fairly immediately and are fighting masks and distancing, and the medical advisers in a fairly strong way. There is a middle ground that is lost in the argument between far left and far right.

True but In about two weeks from now, the argument very well may need to shift to rethink what that middle ground should be. The university completely changed everything to prevent the virus. Maybe the middle ground shouldn’t be so extreme. I don’t know what will happen but in this case, I really hope thinks can return to normal

 

[nevadanatural]

This thread should be somewhere else but since it’s here I would like to point out that this type of rhetoric is exactly what’s causing this country to be torn apart. Saying “Democrats think this” and Republicans think that” is not only painting with a broad brush but assuming facts not in evidence. Leaders, which to me is different from politicians, need to be able to get information from experts, no matter their field of expertise, and use that information to develop a policy that provides the best outcome for the people without regard for their personal beliefs or biases. This includes leaders at all levels from the top down to the mayors and university presidents. While a few leaders have done some stupid things, in both directions, I think most have handled a difficult situation as best they could.

The goal is to hold the virus in check until vaccines can be made and tested and other measures protect the population. Unfortunately we have way too many people who undermine the effort because they either hear some radio guru spout gibberish or they only care about themselves. If we can put ourselves out for a short period of time, whether that’s social distancing and wearing a mask in public or not watching sports in person for a year, and have things return to normal after that it’s a small price to pay. But those who can’t be bothered by these inconveniences could cause the inconvenience to others, including death, to stretch out for much longer. I hope I’m wrong.

 

[lawpoke87]

The goal was to reduce the surge of hospitalizations so the health care providers wouldn’t be overrun. We were never going to be able to isolate or quarantine until such time as a vaccine is available. In hindsight we should have devoted more resources to quarantining the elderly instead of the broad brush strategy which was implemented. The virus will weaken this summer. Will it come back by late fall / winter ?

 

[Raisin_Cane]

Let’s talk about something that really matters. How can this message board, which makes money off writing about Black college students and recruits, support those Black college students & recruits during a scary time in their lives?

 

[astonmartin708]

Meanwhile.... OSU football player tests positive for Covid after attending rally in Tulsa https://www.cnn.com/webview/world/l...03-20-intl/h_d65bff4867359b5aa13bb186d71b0718

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Meanwhile.... OSU football player tests positive for Covid after attending rally in Tulsa https://www.cnn.com/webview/world/l...03-20-intl/h_d65bff4867359b5aa13bb186d71b0718

I have to think he was probably infected before the protest.

 

[astonmartin708]

I have to think he was probably infected before the protest.

IDK... but I would be willing to bet, people were infected by him while he was there.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

IDK... but I would be willing to bet, people were infected by him while he was there.

Hopefully not, if he was as protected as he thought he was, then that protection would have provided as good as, if not better protection for others.

 

[Chris Harmon]

There is a middle ground that is lost in the argument between far left and far right.

This. Always.

P.S. I'll be moving this thread to where it belongs.

 

[astonmartin708]

Meanwhile at OSU....

 

[lawpoke87]

I've argued from the beginning the safest place for these players is at school were they can be tested and live basically in a bubble. 19 year old kids aren't quarantining themselves.

 

[astonmartin708]

I've argued from the beginning the safest place for these players is at school were they can be tested and live basically in a bubble. 19 year old kids aren't quarantining themselves.

Except they have to be around coaches, professors, admin staff, etc... who all go home at night. I'm not sure that having what's effectively and incubator is a really bright idea.

 

[Clong83a]

I rarely buy the argument that one group is right and one group is wrong. It is not a black and white argument. The Democrats went to far with their arguments of shutting everything down completely for an indefinite amount of time, and so did the Republicans who are generally arguing to open everything up fairly immediately and are fighting masks and distancing, and the medical advisers in a fairly strong way. There is a middle ground that is lost in the argument between far left and far right.

This.

Hindsight is always 20/20. I think knowing what we knew at the time, the full shutdown was necessary and reasonable. There were some places and some things that probably didn't need to be fully shut down. For example, rural hospital elective procedures. Arguably, that was also supposed to help preserve PPE during the biggest part of the crunch, but it probably didn't need to happen on the scale it did and I think almost everyone can agree with that now. But again, hindsight is 20/20.

The reopening that is going on now (especially by virtue of being slightly different in nearly all fifty states) is a test of what really needs to be open/closed to maintain a manageable caseload of this disease in the hospitals. It is not a right/left thing. Viruses don't care about politics.

 

[Clong83a]

Except they have to be around coaches, professors, admin staff, etc... who all go home at night. I'm not sure that having what's effectively and incubator is a really bright idea.

And even a college athlete could have some sort of underlying condition. A lineman could be overweight and have mild asthma, which would put them at a high risk despite being 20 years old. And given tens of thousands of (unpaid) college athletes across the country, even though deaths would be rare it would very likely still happen if a major outbreak occurred. I love college sports, but I am not going to ask some unpaid kid to go and risk serious illness for my entertainment. Not unless it can be safely done.

Schools in general face a tough problem. It's not safe to get 150 students in the same cramped room for extended periods of time while listening to a lecture. Not all 19 year olds are healthy. Some have pulmonary illnesses that could be a death sentence if they get COVID, so college dorms and lecture halls would be the worst place for them.

 

[lawpoke87]

Except they have to be around coaches, professors, admin staff, etc... who all go home at night. I'm not sure that having what's effectively and incubator is a really bright idea.

Profs and Admin are able to limit contact with the players to an extent where the risk should be very low. Coaches will need to be treated like the players and tested often. The point is these kids are much less likely to contract the virus if kept in an isolated setting where everyone is tested compared to being out in the general public. I'm talking athletes only and not the general student body btw. That's an entirely different argument.

 

[astonmartin708]

Profs and Admin are able to limit contact with the players to an extent where the risk should be very low. Coaches will need to be treated like the players and tested often. The point is these kids are much less likely to contract the virus if kept in an isolated setting where everyone is tested compared to being out in the general public. I'm talking athletes only and not the general student body btw. That's an entirely different argument.

If they're not on campus to go to class, they shouldn't be on campus. You're also acting like these football players never leave campus... which might be the case in a city like Stillwater, but I can guarantee you that they're all over town in Tulsa, especially in the summer.

 

[Clong83a]

If they're not on campus to go to class, they shouldn't be on campus. You're also acting like these football players never leave campus... which might be the case in a city like Stillwater, but I can guarantee you that they're all over town in Tulsa, especially in the summer.

This. And the general notion that youth will protect you is only true if you are healthy.

Some friends of ours all came down with COVID. They have a 5 year old that has asthma. 5 year olds generally don't present any symptoms at all, but this one had to be on oxygen for 3 weeks. I'm tired of people being cavalier with young people's lives.

 

[lawpoke87]

If they're not on campus to go to class, they shouldn't be on campus. You're also acting like these football players never leave campus... which might be the case in a city like Stillwater, but I can guarantee you that they're all over town in Tulsa, especially in the summer.

I''m not sure what classes are going to look like. Not sure the colleges know at this point either. I assume colleges are going to have to place restrictions on students leaving campus imo. I could see rules where football players aren't allowed to leave campus at least initially. They will also almost certainly will be tested at least weekly. Players with secondary conditions should be allowed to participate imo. For the rest the risk is very minimal. These players are much more likely to die in an auto crash driving to school than of covid19. 15x more likely as of last week for those playing in the state of Oklahoma. That statistic is for people under 50 so I assume the number is even greater for those under 25.

 

[astonmartin708]

I''m not sure what classes are going to look like. Not sure the colleges know at this point either. I assume colleges are going to have to place restrictions on students leaving campus imo. I could see rules where football players aren't allowed to leave campus at least initially. They will also almost certainly will be tested at least weekly. Players with secondary conditions should be allowed to participate imo. For the rest the risk is very minimal. These players are much more likely to die in an auto crash driving to school than of covid19. 15x more likely as of last week for those playing in the state of Oklahoma. That statistic is for people under 50 so I assume the number is even greater for those under 25.

One kid dying so people can watch football is too many. I don't need to watch it that badly. Moreover, I don't think colleges can or will be able to quarantine students to campus in the fall. I acknowledge that most of these kids are at lower risk (though probably not the linemen), but I'm worried about all the people they have to be around. The cafeteria workers, the professors, the secretaries, and then when they go off campus literally everyone else.

You can't quarantine students to campus because they don't all have dining options there. Some can't even afford to live on campus and live with family in the surrounding area. Lastly, you really think fraternities are going to exist for an entire semester without going off campus to get alcohol? I laugh at the thought.

 

[Clong83a]

I''m not sure what classes are going to look like. Not sure the colleges know at this point either. I assume colleges are going to have to place restrictions on students leaving campus imo. I could see rules where football players aren't allowed to leave campus at least initially. They will also almost certainly will be tested at least weekly. Players with secondary conditions should be allowed to participate imo. For the rest the risk is very minimal. These players are much more likely to die in an auto crash driving to school than of covid19. 15x more likely as of last week for those playing in the state of Oklahoma. That statistic is for people under 50 so I assume the number is even greater for those under 25.

Death isn't the only possibly bad outcome. What happens if half the team gets really sick and some players are out for two or three weeks? Is the season just over for teams that get sick? Some teams/schools will probably stay healthy, and some won't. The death rate appears to be very low for the healthy and under 25 crowd, you are right. But the hospitalization rate remains alarmingly high, which means it can still make you very ill indeed.

Sports can theoretically be done in the way you are describing. But it would be a herculean task to effectively quarantine and test all the people involved. Players, coaches, support staff, cafeteria workers, etc, etc. It is going to be difficult, expensive, and a logistical nightmare. Not impossible, but the question starts to become: Is it worth it? Who benefits from all of this? Not the student athletes, that's for sure. I don't think I'd want to put up with it if I were a player, and I think that has to be considered. The pros can justify it because their players can endure quarantine for a hefty paycheck. The only value a college athlete gets is their tuition waiver. But I find it hard to believe their academic situation will be enhanced by all the extra protocols they'd be going through.

 

[astonmartin708]

Oh my god.... we could be forced to play another 100-6 game against Houston.... please no.

 

[lawpoke87]

Death isn't the only possibly bad outcome. What happens if half the team gets really sick and some players are out for two or three weeks? Is the season just over for teams that get sick? Some teams/schools will probably stay healthy, and some won't. The death rate appears to be very low for the healthy and under 25 crowd, you are right. But the hospitalization rate remains alarmingly high, which means it can still make you very ill indeed.

.

We're going to see that a large majority of players are asymptomatic. I don't see any scenario where large numbers get really sick. Those will be few and far between. Even fewer will require hospitalization. In fact, far more will require hospitalization from the actual playing of the game than covid19. I'm on record as saying the risk to young healthy athletes is being vastly overblown. Especially when compared to the game they're playing.

 

[URedskin54]

I'm sorry but Covid was cured instantly 6 days ago. The smoke from the burning cities provided immediate immunity and everyone is now fine to go outside and resume whatever activities they please. At least I assume this is why every screeching media person accusing protesters 3 weeks ago of wanting to kill grandma so they could get a haircut is now silent.

 

[TU_BLA]

True but In about two weeks from now, the argument very well may need to shift to rethink what that middle ground should be. The university completely changed everything to prevent the virus. Maybe the middle ground shouldn’t be so extreme. I don’t know what will happen but in this case, I really hope thinks can return to normal

After about a week of fairly significant drop in new cases in Oklahoma, it was reported today that yesterday we hit 119 new cases. Not the highest since the start, but the highest in more than a week...right about the time people started letting down their guard and having parties and cookouts for Memorial Day.

Also, it appears to me when watching coverage of the protests, a good many of the individuals are wearing masks.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

After about a week of fairly significant drop in new cases in Oklahoma, it was reported today that yesterday we hit 119 new cases. Not the highest since the start, but the highest in more than a week...right about the time people started letting down their guard and having parties and cookouts for Memorial Day.

Also, it appears to me when watching coverage of the protests, a good many of the individuals are wearing masks.

Yeah we need to give this thing 2-4 weeks gap asessment. There can be some asymptomatics in the first 2 weeks, as well as the few infecting others exponentially, as well as any combination of the aforementioned, such that 2 weeks is not enough for analysis.

 

[URedskin54]

What will be fun will be when media types start blaming police for a new outbreak because their tear gas made people cough

 

[Gmoney4WW]

What will be fun will be when media types start blaming police for a new outbreak because their tear gas made people cough

Followed by a small print retraction a day or so later.

 

[TU_BLA]

Yeah we need to give this thing 2-4 weeks gap asessment. There can be some asymptomatics in the first 2 weeks, as well as the few infecting others exponentially, as well as any combination of the aforementioned, such that 2 weeks is not enough for analysis.

Well the OSU player who tested positive is tying his case to the protest on Saturday/Sunday in Tulsa. They say a positive test can show up anywhere from 2-14 days from the time of exposure/infection. In my informed but limited knowledge of immunology, that seems really quick. I wonder what he was doing on Memorial Day.

 

[Clong83a]

After about a week of fairly significant drop in new cases in Oklahoma, it was reported today that yesterday we hit 119 new cases. Not the highest since the start, but the highest in more than a week...right about the time people started letting down their guard and having parties and cookouts for Memorial Day.

Also, it appears to me when watching coverage of the protests, a good many of the individuals are wearing masks.

Reporting of new cases can be kind of sporadic based on how counties report, how busy labs are, etc, etc. Some days a lab might process way more test kits than another because some maintenance was needed on some equipment, limited hours on a weekend, or whathaveyou. In the case of New Mexico, there was a huge spike in case numbers yesterday because they tested a prison and reported all of them at once. The day to day case reports are full of noise.

All of that is to say that it is probably better to look at something like the 7-day moving average. The New York Times has this plotted for all fifty states, with a nice breakdown of where that number is increasing, decreasing, etc. They list Oklahoma as a state where it is decreasing. You can quibble with their metrics if you want, as they have some states as "increasing" by virtue of very low caseloads, like Idaho. Increasing from 1.5 cases per day average to 2.0 cases per day average is a statistically significant rise I guess, but most people would exclude results like that due to small sample sizes. To their credit, they also show the graph and you can click to see the raw numbers, so you can draw your own conclusions from any of their charts. Anyhow, here is the link:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html#states

Another thing you can look at that is reasonably indicative of how things are moving is the hospitalization numbers.

Edit:

Also, Georgia is hard to interpret, because while 49 states count a 'new case' on the date that the test come back positive, Georgia backdates the "new case" to the date that the person began exhibiting symptoms. I think asymptomatic people go on the date of the test administration. I think there is probably some merit to doing it this way as it will likely give you a more accurate picture of the overall trendline, but only for the older data. That is, it is no good for real-time analysis on the trendline for the most recent week or so.

 

[lawpoke87]

Oklahoma is so hit and miss with reporting testing numbers it’s hard to make a lot from a few days. Test numbers being reported the last two days would be helpful.

 

[TU_BLA]

Oklahoma is so hit and miss with reporting testing numbers it’s hard to make a lot from a few days. Test numbers being reported the last two days would be helpful.

Correct. For about 1 week they were reporting the % of positive tests per day as well as overall numbers. But Governor Stittiot in his infinite wisdom said they wouldn't be giving daily numbers like that anymore and used the excuse of HIPPA because the emergency COVID powers he had lapsed at the end of May. 1st, reporting a number with no tie to a specific patient does not violate HIPPA so that excuse is bunk. And not reporting the full numbers allows him to manipulate the data to fit his re-opening plan and doesn't allow for him to be "wrong". I long expected that right after Memorial Day we would see another spike....we'll never know now because there will be no transparency or expectation for such with the numbers any longer.

 

[lawpoke87]

Correct. For about 1 week they were reporting the % of positive tests per day as well as overall numbers. But Governor Stittiot in his infinite wisdom said they wouldn't be giving daily numbers like that anymore and used the excuse of HIPPA because the emergency COVID powers he had lapsed at the end of May. 1st, reporting a number with no tie to a specific patient does not violate HIPPA so that excuse is bunk. And not reporting the full numbers allows him to manipulate the data to fit his re-opening plan and doesn't allow for him to be "wrong". I long expected that right after Memorial Day we would see another spike....we'll never know now because there will be no transparency or expectation for such with the numbers any longer.

Case numbers are largely irrelevant anyway as they're dependent on testing numbers. New hospitalizations have and remain the number to watch as they aren't dependent on anything the state does with testing numbers or reporting.

 

[URedskin54]

Case numbers are largely irrelevant anyway as they're dependent on testing numbers. New hospitalizations have and remain the number to watch as they aren't dependent on anything the state does with testing numbers or reporting.