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The answer is to outlaw guns?

TUMe

TUMe

I.T.S. Legend
Dec 3, 2003
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Let's out law heroin! Let's outlaw people entering the country without proper documentation! Let's outlaw vandalism. Let's outlaw bogus checks. Let's outlaw murder. Wait, there is still heroin, illegal aliens aka undocumented, vandalism, hot checks, murder. Let's outlaw pressure cookers, let's outlaw fertilizer and diesel. Let's outlaw pipe bombs.

As soon as we outlaw guns all 250 million or so will disappear. Remember Paris and Brussels? I don't know if France and Belgium have strict gun laws, but if they are like most European countries they our stricter than ours. Certainly it didn't stop the problem. The problem is people wanting to kill other people.

If we can't stop heroin and illegal aliens from coming into this country, how can we stop guns? If we can't stop home made drugs, how can we stop home made bombs.

I don't have an assault rifle or want one. Maybe if you committed a violent crime with an assault rifle you should get the death penalty? Oh, no. Liberals don't like the death penalty. What do you do with Joe citizen who owns a gun that becomes illegal? Lock him up? We already lock too many people up, we are told.
 
The LIBERALS in Chicago outlawed guns and they had more SHOOTINGS than anyone last year. You can't OUT LAW OUTLAWS.
 
We can't be surprised with the amped up power of our arms that this type slaughter doesn't happen more often in this country. Can't see how the problem won't get worse going forward, no easy solutions here.
 
I call this mindset the "red light scenario".

Someone comes up to an intersection to turn left and the light is red. They wait for the light to turn green, but it stays red. While they are waiting, cars begin piling up behind and honking for them to make the turn. What do they do? Do they break the law or just sit there and wait. Obviously the light is broken, but legally they must sit there and wait for the light change. Of course, most people will choose to break the law because obviously the law in that instance isn't working. But by running the light they would technically break the law - out of necessity.

If we harden the gun laws to the point that people perceive it as unfair, guns will go underground where they can never be tracked. That would be far worse than what we have today. Every gun I've ever purchased was tied to a background check and registered. If guns go underground, people will still feel they have to protect themselves regardless of the law. And of course the law breaking bad guys don't care what the law says.

And over-regulation has been tried before. Think of the Volstead Act - outlawing liquor, an industry that was pushed underground back in the 20's and 30's. The result was, for the first time in history, we had organized crime, cities that became battle zones and police corruption we'd never seen before in our history. We don't need that kind of govt overreach - again. Oh, and then there is the second amendment.
 
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Blame the gun while refusing to address the growing group of people committing these terrorist acts and the radical beliefs they hold true....lunacy.
 
lawpoke87 said:
Blame the gun while refusing to address the growing group of people committing these terrorist acts and the radical beliefs they hold true....lunacy.
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Ive seen more and more evidence that corroborates that the shooter claimed the Isis tie for attention rather than actual belief in their cause.

It seems he has claimed support for Al-queda, Hezzbolah, and Isis in the past. Which would be like claiming you're a tea party democrat. It just does t make sense because they hate each other and fight each other constantly. I'm starting to believe the Isis claim was made to sensationalize his actions and make him infamous.

On top of that there are multiple reports coming from the Florida gay community that he was actually gay and that he didn't follow major Muslim principles like refraining from alcohol as he had been seen in the bar that was attacked multiple times over many months getting drunk.

Maybe jumping to the "radical Islamic terrorism" Ted Cruz line was premature by the general populous (and the people on this board)

Source: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/report-orlando-nightclub-shooter-visited-222620444.html
 
He certainly consumed a hell of a lot of online jihadist propaganda including numerous ISIS links according to officials who searched his electronic devices. He celebrated 9/11 as a high school student according to numerous witnesses. He made radical Islamic statements to co-workers which prompted FBI investigations and had ties to an individual who left to fight for ISIS. I'm not sure if we will ever know his true motivation but his ties to radical Islam are quite lengthy.
 
lawpoke87 said:
He certainly consumed a hell of a lot of online jihadist propaganda including numerous ISIS links according to officials who searched his electronic devices. He celebrated 9/11 as a high school student according to numerous witnesses. He made radical Islamic statements to co-workers which prompted FBI investigations and had ties to an individual who left to fight for ISIS. I'm not sure if we will ever know his true motivation but his ties to radical Islam are quite lengthy.
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The ties he supposedly had to a radical Islamist in Florida who left (to fight for Al-Quaeda not Isis) were dismissed by the FBI. That's one of the reasons he was investigated. He also claimed to have known the brothers in the Boston bombing although that's also been found to be false. It seems like he was a deranged individual that made a lot of claims to sensationalize himself, and when no one found him sensational, he did the only thing that would make him so.
 
I think its pretty clear he was a Muslim who committed a "terrible" act of terror. So he, by definition, is an Islamic terrorist.
 
astonmartin708 said:
The ties he supposedly had to a radical Islamist in Florida who left (to fight for Al-Quaeda not Isis) were dismissed by the FBI. That's one of the reasons he was investigated. He also claimed to have known the brothers in the Boston bombing although that's also been found to be false. It seems like he was a deranged individual that made a lot of claims to sensationalize himself, and when no one found him sensational, he did the only thing that would make him so.
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Again.....he certainly was a follower of radical Islam online. There's no dispute as to that fact. Whether or not he was carrying out the attack on behalf of ISIS (who he pledged allegiance to during the same) is something he may only know. Regardless, he was someone who followed radical Islam (at least electronically) who committed a terrorist act (killed 50 people) and claimed to be doing it based on radical Islam. The fact the dude celebrated the terrorist murder of over 3000 Americans should give you some insight as to his state of mind regarding jihadist.

If McVeigh pledged his allegiance to a radical Christian movement during the actual bombing and followed radical Christians groups then you might have an argument. Otherwise, the comparison has little merit.
 
lawpoke87 said:
Again.....he certainly was a follower of radical Islam online. There's no dispute as to that fact. Whether or not he was carrying out the attack on behalf of ISIS (who he pledged allegiance to during the same) is something he may only know. Regardless, he was someone who followed radical Islam (at least electronically) who committed a terrorist act (killed 50 people) and claimed to be doing it based on radical Islam.
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A gay, radical islam follower who frequently consumes alcohol? SUUUUUUUUUUURRRREEEEE.

I just wanted to point out that the situation isn't at all clear cut. Feel free to continue your circlejerk for the drums of war now.
 
Trying to say this guy wasn't an Islamist because he consumed alcohol and got busy with dudes in private is....bizarre. That describes like half of Al-Qaeda
 
URedskin54 said:
Trying to say this guy wasn't an Islamist because he consumed alcohol and got busy with dudes in private is....bizarre. That describes like half of Al-Qaeda
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Al-Qaeda and Isis are two very different entities. Isis is much more hardline... to the point that now the two factions are warring with each other. Also, the guys father and his ex-wife (who he was beating) both said that religion wasn't the primary factor in the attack.

The FBI director said that the guy had searched ISIS propoganda material online, specifically referencing beheadings, which I know a lot of people who aren't Radical Islamists have searched for as well. Some people are just sick. It seems like this guy just happened to be a Muslim who was crazy instead of a christian who was crazy.
 
astonmartin708 said:
Al-Qaeda and Isis are two very different entities. Isis is much more hardline... to the point that now the two factions are warring with each other. Also, the guys father and his ex-wife (who he was beating) both said that religion wasn't the primary factor in the attack.

The FBI director said that the guy had searched ISIS propoganda material online, specifically referencing beheadings, which I know a lot of people who aren't Radical Islamists have searched for as well. Some people are just sick. It seems like this guy just happened to be a Muslim who was crazy instead of a christian who was crazy.
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Do you actually believe this?

Let's recap:

Viewed a vast amount of jihadist material online including but not limited to ISIS executions.

Openly supported the 9-11 attacks against the U.S.

Pledge allegiance to ISIS as he was committing the murders....ie... (He said he was killing these people as part of the Islamic jihadist cause)

But yeah, let's just ignore his last public words in which he stated his motive. Just the same as a guy who kills some people who occasionally attends the Baptist Church down the street.
 
lawpoke87 said:
Do you actually believe this?

Let's recap:

Viewed a vast amount of jihadist material online including but not limited to ISIS executions.

Openly supported the 9-11 attacks against the U.S.

Pledge allegiance to ISIS as he was committing the murders....ie... (He said he was killing these people as part of the Islamic jihadist cause)

But yeah, let's just ignore his last public words in which he stated his motive. Just the same as a guy who kills some people who occasionally attends the Baptist Church down the street.
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Now, ask yourself... comparatively, how much attention would he have garnered if he hadn't said that? He knew that it would make him famous which is what a lot of sociopaths want. This guy was clearly a sociopath.

Then, even if he did TRULY believe in the cause that he claimed, which is doubtful, considering he claimed allegiance to other rival causes in the past (al-qeada, hezbollah) then what would his motive have been? It would have been to insight hostility between the US and an entire religion. Which is exactly what we're doing. We're saying, "Alright, you want a war... we'll give you a war." and I just think that's the stupidest thing you could possibly do in the situation we're in.
 
aTUfan said:
TM had nothing to do with religion. He was anti government.
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I know that aTUfan, I just meant that the logic you used.... saying, since he was A and since he did B it must make it A's fault was a bit off. It's clearly more complicated than that. I don't actually believe Timothy McVeigh had anything to do with religion. I just think he was a psychopathic sociopath much like this Omar idiot.
 
astonmartin708 said:
A gay, radical islam follower who frequently consumes alcohol? SUUUUUUUUUUURRRREEEEE.

I just wanted to point out that the situation isn't at all clear cut. Feel free to continue your circlejerk for the drums of war now.
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I think that it is pretty well known that conflicting beliefs in a person's mind can cause insanity. He wants to do things that his mind tells him are wrong. He has both guilt and desire.
 
URedskin54 said:
Trying to say this guy wasn't an Islamist because he consumed alcohol and got busy with dudes in private is....bizarre. That describes like half of Al-Qaeda
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Spend a little time on a rig in country and this dude won't seem that strange....
 
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astonmartin708 said:
Al-Qaeda and Isis are two very different entities. Isis is much more hardline... to the point that now the two factions are warring with each other. Also, the guys father and his ex-wife (who he was beating) both said that religion wasn't the primary factor in the attack.

The FBI director said that the guy had searched ISIS propoganda material online, specifically referencing beheadings, which I know a lot of people who aren't Radical Islamists have searched for as well. Some people are just sick. It seems like this guy just happened to be a Muslim who was crazy instead of a christian who was crazy.
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Yes, the guy's father who ran a pro-Taliban TV show definitely has no interest in protecting radical Islam. Every time there's a terrorist attack someone close to the guy will come out and say it had nothing to do with Islam so I'm not sure why it matters in context with everything else. The fact that he was beating his wife is also right in line with that ideology.

There isn't a huge difference between ISIS and Al Qaeda, and it's mainly a difference in PR, strategy, and treatment of Muslims, not hardline ideology. There are no doubt lots of closeted gays in ISIS.

Every single sign, especially the man's own words , point to one thing and for some strange reason you're trying to invent an alternate reality.
 
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URedskin54 said:
Trying to say this guy wasn't an Islamist because he consumed alcohol and got busy with dudes in private is....bizarre. That describes like half of Al-Qaeda
Click to expand...

astonmartin708 said:
Al-Qaeda and Isis are two very different entities. Isis is much more hardline... to the point that now the two factions are warring with each other. Also, the guys father and his ex-wife (who he was beating) both said that religion wasn't the primary factor in the attack.

The FBI director said that the guy had searched ISIS propoganda material online, specifically referencing beheadings, which I know a lot of people who aren't Radical Islamists have searched for as well. Some people are just sick. It seems like this guy just happened to be a Muslim who was crazy instead of a christian who was crazy.
Click to expand...

And regardless of the differences between orgaizations, there are guys consuming and getting busy in both Al Quaeda & ISIS. That is part of their intense self hatred for those acts.
 
Sort of like claiming a gay priest who molests boys couldn't have possibly been Catholic due to the church's views at the time on gays.

When a teenager is openly cheering for the terrorist during the 9-11 attack it's fairly obvious he's been influenced by his family. When he openly tells us why he's killing these people I'm dumbfounded why there are those trying to make him out as a liar to further their own political agenda. I suppose in the end it really doesn't matter. In the end be murdered fifty people and claimed to do it in the name of ISIS as he was shooting people.
 
astonmartin708 said:
Now, ask yourself... comparatively, how much attention would he have garnered if he hadn't said that? He knew that it would make him famous which is what a lot of sociopaths want. This guy was clearly a sociopath.

Then, even if he did TRULY believe in the cause that he claimed, which is doubtful, considering he claimed allegiance to other rival causes in the past (al-qeada, hezbollah) then what would his motive have been?
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How is this still a question that has to be asked?
 
Why do these terrorists have to be so cryptic? Looks like we'll never know what his motive was

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So if I understand correctly, he was seeking vengeance for ISIS.
 
How long before the "see? it's our fault for bombing Isis" ?
 
Media obviously jumped the gun blaming this on an Islamic extremist. He was also yelling "this is for my homeland" referring to Afganistan (Taliban) as he shot people.
 
His dad was/is Taliban. I can see some allegiances there as well as his obvious allegiance to Isis. The U.S. in the end was his ultimate enemy and he wanted those people to die in order to honor Isis and his home (not the U.S. Btw per his words) At least we now know for certain his motivations.
 
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astonmartin708 said:
So that would make Timothy McVeigh a Christian terrorist? I'm sure he went to church once or twice in his life.

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/an-accurate-look-at-timothy-mcveighs-beliefs-cms-15532
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I'm fine with that analogy but according to most reports I've heard was his motivation for the OKC bombing was the siege and burning and killing of the Branch Davidian men, women and children in Waco under the Bill Clinton Adm. But I think the main cause had more to do with political righteous revenge that women and children were burned alive.
 
Outlaw pipe bombs. The right wing terrorist in Utah and the San Bernardino Islamic terrorists had bomb plans and the later had the making for bombs. Brussels and the latest terrorism were done predominately with bombs. The Boston Marathon was a bomb. Yet the outrage is always stronger with guns.

Of course, we know bombs are already illegal. But probably only searches with out a warranty will make a dent in them. There goes another amendment. Progressives are against the Patriot Act because we loose some of our freedoms. Yet they pick and choose which ones they are willing to part with.
 
TUMe said:
Outlaw pipe bombs. The right wing terrorist in Utah and the San Bernardino Islamic terrorists had bomb plans and the later had the making for bombs. Brussels and the latest terrorism were done predominately with bombs. The Boston Marathon was a bomb. Yet the outrage is always stronger with guns.

Of course, we know bombs are already illegal. But probably only searches with out a warranty will make a dent in them. There goes another amendment. Progressives are against the Patriot Act because we loose some of our freedoms. Yet they pick and choose which ones they are willing to part with.
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Isn't gun ownership highly regulated in France, Brussels and Pakistan?

They also had attacks where the terrorist had assault weapons.

How did that happen?
 
if you are trying to make a comment on the airport attack that just happened, you might want to change the country to Turkey. Your comment will hold as much weight as all your comments, either way. And there is virtually no gun laws to restrict the Pakistani's.
 
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Gmoney4WW said:
if you are trying to make a comment on the airport attack that just happened, you might want to change the country to Turkey. Your comment will hold as much weight as all your comments, either way.
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No, in Turkey they had pipe bombs.
 
The facts have never stopped you from making a comment before, as evidenced by your comment on Pakistan's non existent regulations on guns.
 
aTUfan said:
Isn't gun ownership highly regulated in France, Brussels and Pakistan?

They also had attacks where the terrorist had assault weapons.

How did that happen?
Click to expand...

aTUfan said:
No, in Turkey they had pipe bombs.
Click to expand...

aTUfan said:
So gun ownership is supported in pakistan.
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What is wrong with this group? France, Brussels, and Pakistan?
One is not a country.

I don't believe the gun regulation in Belgium are local.

To answer your question, follow these instructions:
a) goggle it
b) read
c) quit posting about it
 
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