Temple thread

[Tulsafanzz]

Haith should know to play Ray late in games & design inbound plays to him or Woodard. If Ray or Woodard had shot the last couple 1 & 1s, odds are we win in regulation. Haith screwed up, & it cost us a huge game.

BTW, a coach will tell his players to foul or not foul. Apparently, Haith did not instruct them to foul. Our continued zone defense in the 2nd half, while Temple hit 3 after 3, was another coaching error.

 

[astonmartin708]

TU deserved to lose the game. 10 seconds up by 3 and you don't foul and then give them the open 3. DAH........
You play to lose and you will....
4 seniors + Birt and no one fouls?????
This team has a low bball IQ...
Haith has his faults, but that is on the players on the court and Haith was not on the court...
This was deja vu when we played Memphis at the Don/Rey...
Well CBI or whatever here we come...
Hopefully not!!!!
This year it is the Big Dance or Bust!

We busted 3 cards ago. (blackjack analogy!)

 

[astonmartin708]

Not Haiths team. I understand playing Harrison, he has been shooting free throws fairly well of late but not at the end of games. I would have had him on the bench but I understand the coaching decision. Also, notice the difference of Temple pressing here to use clock.

It's completely Haith's team. This team didn't play in this fashion under Manning. I don't remember Manning screwing up who's on the court late in games, or putting us in one defense the entire game, or not telling the players to foul on the floor instead of giving up the three.

This game could have been won if we had a decent coach from a local HS on the sidelines during the last 2 minutes of regulation.

 

[cmullinsTU]

I don't think you are remembering how bad TU was under Manning in a bad conference except for one solid stretch. People wanted him fired in his 2nd year...

 

[cmullinsTU]

In fact in 2014 TU under Manning, with these same players, managed to go to OT at Charlotte after being up by 8 with less the minute in regulation and then in OT.

Like almost everything people say on here it's not as black and white as we want to make it out to be. Both the players and the coaches made mistakes that ultimately cost the team the game. IMO, it's been vastly overblown on both sides who is at fault, players or the coaches.

 

[crow4435]

i normally don't post but any hope i had for postseason play in the big tournament faded tonight. i'm not blaming anyone, i just came to the realization the team isn't as good as i thought they would be. for me it was NCAA or bust and the team seems to be heading towards bust.

 

[Lumpuckeroo]

i normally don't post but any hope i had for postseason play in the big tournament faded tonight. i'm not blaming anyone, i just came to the realization the team isn't as good as i thought they would be. for me it was NCAA or bust and the team seems to be heading towards bust.

Its sad for TU basketball but they are just not good enough to play in the tournament. In crunch time, you cannot not step up to the foul line and choke your freethrows and that sums up TU's team. Guards did all the scoring and the interior players struggled to score.

 

[noble cane]

I don't think you are remembering how bad TU was under Manning in a bad conference except for one solid stretch. People wanted him fired in his 2nd year...

Manning isn't setting the world on fire at wake forest.... 10-12 overall and 1-9 in conference...

 

[GOB10]

Well there is no question that Haith is responsible for this team and yes he made some questionable coaching moves especially not fouling with 10 sec up by 3 especially when Temple was struggling a little bit from the line in the second half and yes his substitution pattern at the end of the game was absolutely horrendous. Look I have been a staunch critic of Haith and I believe he has one more year to prove himself but you had 2 seniors step to the line and choke. I don't like to ever like to be critical of players but this one is on those 2 guys!

 

[astonmartin708]

Hadith will get 2 more seasons. I'd put the odds on 70-30 that he doesn't sniff an NCAA bid again while he's here. The guy can't coach a defense to save his life, he doesn't make ANY adjustments. Same complaints that Mizzou fans had about him. They used to complain about watching him sit in that zone the entire game. These were exactly the hesitations I voiced when he was hired. He's ruined a great man-man team.

 

[djedgar14]

If Curtis or Shaq hits on the front end of either of those 1-and-1s and we aren't having these discussions. Credit Temple for hitting a big shot when we left the door open.

 

[lawpoke87]

I don't think you are remembering how bad TU was under Manning in a bad conference except for one solid stretch. People wanted him fired in his 2nd year...

To be fair, Manning was playing with a bunch of freshman his first season. His team significantly improved from year 1 to year 2 and even from the start of year 2 to the end of that season. I have no idea if those kids would have continued to improve if Manning would have stayed or stalled in their development like they have under Haith. Manning isn't exactly setting the world afire at Wake. No idea if he's playing a bunch of young kids or just lacks the talent to play in the ACC.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

Good point, poke. They were babies then. Zero expectations.

 

[Weatherdemon]

Good point, poke. They were babies then. Zero expectations.

I put this a some other stuff on the payboard. I left off Manning's first team since it was a rebuild year.

Speaking from an RPI standpoint,

Haiths last two teams have had fewer 'bad' losses combined (4 at 100+) than Manning's 2nd team (5 at 100+), a stronger SOS (Ave 79 vs 99), and a higher RPI (Ave 56 vs 70)
The negative is that this years team will end up with fewer 'good' wins than both Manning's last team and last years team based on current trends.

2013-14: 21-13 - Losses to RPI: 170, 87, 4, 11, 222, 67, 26, 222, 83, 151, 153, 58, 15 (Ave RPI Loss = 98) SOS 99; RPI 70, CUSA #13
------6 Good wins (-100): 74, 34, 61, 95, 91, 58. Ave 69

2014-15: 24-11 Losses to RPI: 163, 51, 17, 360, 18, 12, 77, 37, 12, 77, 63 (Ave RPI Loss = 81) SOS 91; RPI 46, AAC #8
------ 6 Good wins (-100): 34, 77, 83, 34, 83, 93. Ave 69

2015-16: 14-7 - Losses to RPI: 29, 54, 118, 63, 10, 58,106, 79 (Ave RPI Loss = 74) SOS 66; RPI 66, AAC #8
------ Good wins (-100): 27, 57

Mannings last/Haiths first recruiting class was a bust (Dew, Littlejohn, and Rusic) so I don't know who that falls on.

What does all this mean? I don't know... just stats and facts.

 

[astonmartin708]

I would say that the tournament team that lost a bunch of initial games really hadn't gelled yet. When we got to conference we pretty much ran the table (the La Tech loss was BS, and the Charlotte loss was similar to Temple) but overall, we won the conference games that we needed to to get a good seed in the tournament. Right now it looks like we'll end up as a 4,5, or 6 seed this year and get bumped in the first round.

 

[Weatherdemon]

I would say that the tournament team that lost a bunch of initial games really hadn't gelled yet. When we got to conference we pretty much ran the table (the La Tech loss was BS, and the Charlotte loss was similar to Temple) but overall, we won the conference games that we needed to to get a good seed in the tournament. Right now it looks like we'll end up as a 4,5, or 6 seed this year and get bumped in the first round.

They beat: 297, 227, 172, 271, 200, 95, 308 ,187, 220 61, and 58 on their late run bookended by L vs 58 and 15.
Conversely, last years mid season run was 248, 160, 256, 239, 34 ,77, 273, 83, 220 ,214, 273, 239 bookended by L vs 18 and 12.
This year hasn't had a real run but the only one was 168, 250, 48, 168, 184, bookended by L vs 67 and 106.

This years team has certainly underperformed compared to last years.

 

[Tu Geo]

Haith has won a lot of games in his short tenure at Tulsa but last night for the first time I was disappointed.

Ray has been clutch down the stretch in games and should be on the floor late in close games.

GO TU!!!!!

 

[astonmartin708]

They beat: 297, 227, 172, 271, 200, 95, 308 ,187, 220 61, and 58 on their late run bookended by L vs 58 and 15.
Conversely, last years mid season run was 248, 160, 256, 239, 34 ,77, 273, 83, 220 ,214, 273, 239 bookended by L vs 18 and 12.
This year hasn't had a real run but the only one was 168, 250, 48, 168, 184, bookended by L vs 67 and 106.

This years team has certainly underperformed compared to last years.

I'm well aware we're in a better conference weatherdemon, but I'm also aware that we are paying Haith twice as much as we paid Manning for worse results and similar recruiting mistakes.

We could have grabbed Scott Sutton for much less if all we wanted was L's to the top teams in the conference.

 

[Weatherdemon]

Haith has won a lot of games in his short tenure at Tulsa but last night for the first time I was disappointed.

Ray has been clutch down the stretch in games and should be on the floor late in close games.

GO TU!!!!!

My .02 on this...

Woodard, Shaq, Ray, Birt, and Smith provide quickness, ball handling, 2/3, 3 pt threats, 3 penetration threats, rebounding, and 2/3 guys I trust at the line in Woodard, Birt, and maybe Ray. This set of guards can also press, trap, and have the best chance at getting steals.

Last night they accounted for: 73 points, 32 rebounds, 14 assists , 4 steals, 9 TO's,
On the season: 53 points, 19.5 rebounds, 10 assists, 5.6 steals, 5 TO's.

Yea, that's 4 guards and 1 forward but we can protect the three in man, have the quickness to limit penetration, but can hit the trey and penetrate on the offensive end.

 

[Weatherdemon]

I'm well aware we're in a better conference weatherdemon, but I'm also aware that we are paying Haith twice as much as we paid Manning for worse results and similar recruiting mistakes.

Manning had one good year and one good recruiting class.
Haith is similar but has a great recruiting class on tap per our resident experts.

Wake is 10-12 this year and is 1-9 in their last 10. He was 13-19 last year and finished on a 3-12 run FWIW.

 

[hotterthanyourhusbandTU]

I've been watching TU since I was 8 years old. I graduated from TU in '96.
I think I've probably missed 12 home games since 1986.
Tubby Smith is my favorite coach and would dominate TU's "Mount Rushmore".
I'm not sold on Frank Haith.

However...I think this class he's signed is "on paper" and "per informed opinion" the best class TU's had since Nolan's first and second years.

I'm pretty excited about next year...it will be bumpy...but, I'm very hopeful.

 

[astonmartin708]

Manning had one good year and one good recruiting class.
Haith is similar but has a great recruiting class on tap per our resident experts.

Wake is 10-12 this year and is 1-9 in their last 10. He was 13-19 last year and finished on a 3-12 run FWIW.

I'm not arguing that I want Manning back. I'm arguing that the guy we're paying twice as much should perform at a higher level and he's clearly not. Some of the pieces of the class look good, but I think everyone is looking at them with rose colored glasses right now.

 

[Weatherdemon]

I'm not arguing that I want Manning back. I'm arguing that the guy we're paying twice as much should perform at a higher level and he's clearly not. Some of the pieces of the class look good, but I think everyone is looking at them with rose colored glasses right now.

I know man, I was posting that just as info. I still have a little beef with Manning for bolting so soon and his recruiting.
I don't know about the class. One paper, it looks great... better than any we've had a long time... even according to some of the posters that really know their stuff and keep their opinions level.
Next year may be rough but it will be nice if most of our team can actually shoot worth a damn, lol!

 

[I.I.]

The zone is leaving a lot of guys open in the corners. Over and over and over.

 

[red dirt]

Watch the end of the game. We tried to foul and it was not called. Quit blaming the coach when 2 seniors choke at the line. The fact is that this group has never been very good except for a few games.

 

[T Up]

I've seen a number of references to the guys coming in next year. Sounds a lot like we do every year at this time....talk about how much better we will be next year
All I know is next year we will have only Taplin and Edogi who have played a minute of major college ball. And since I don't see any of these guys ranked in the top 150 nationally not sure we should all be just jumping up and down just yet. I hope they all pan out but it has been a lot of "just wait till next years" around here.

 

[cmullinsTU]

I've seen a number of references to the guys coming in next year. Sounds a lot like we do every year at this time....talk about how much better we will be next year
All I know is next year we will have only Taplin and Edogi who have played a minute of major college ball. And since I don't see any of these guys ranked in the top 150 nationally not sure we should all be just jumping up and down just yet. I hope they all pan out but it has been a lot of "just wait till next years" around here.

Junior Etou, Pat Birt, Brown, and Henderson have all played more than a minute of major college basketball...

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Junior Etou, Pat Birt, Brown, and Henderson have all played more than a minute of major college basketball...

...and Artison. That's 7 out of 11 so far.

 

[Bill Lowery]

I've seen a number of references to the guys coming in next year. Sounds a lot like we do every year at this time....talk about how much better we will be next year
All I know is next year we will have only Taplin and Edogi who have played a minute of major college ball. And since I don't see any of these guys ranked in the top 150 nationally not sure we should all be just jumping up and down just yet. I hope they all pan out but it has been a lot of "just wait till next years" around here.

Both Etou and Atson were top 150 in high school. Etou had numerous high major offers including Kansas, Maryland, W Vir, etc.

Atson had 19 D1 offers and is playing lights out this season, as well at the National Prep School Invitational that is going on right now. He's been POG in 2 of his teams wins thus far. Here's some info written about him yesterday. He had 21 in the game mentioned below and was named the POG.

TRAVIS ATSON, SF, NOTRE DAME PREP, 2016: While the identity of Travis Atson is up for debate by some, where a few think of him as a shooter and others view him as an athletic slasher, what isn’t in question is the kid’s toughness. In a game where Atson failed to find his outside jumper, he still did quality work on the glass and in producing near the painted area. He is always willing and capable of defending the 2-4 spots on the floor and has the body and grit in checking guys much bigger than him near the blocks. Headed to Tulsa in the fall, Atson is a solid coup for the AAC bunch. Battling knee tendinitis at this time, Frank Haith has someone in the NDP senior who will bring leadership straight out of the gates, a workers approach, and a no-ego mentality who will buy into whatever asked out of him in order for his group to succeed.


https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/maple/126262

 

[T Up]

I wondered if anyone was still reading this board...