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Suddenly Obama discovers that Russia tried to influence our election.

Dems are still at the bargaining stage over having a terrible president they hate. Gotta give em time. We've been at acceptance since about April.
 
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Libs....what is the Dems end game here? Can't be anything but to try to undermine Trump's presidency correct?

Let's say enough Trump electors are convinced not to vote for Trump because Russia exposed the DNC's dirt. They certainly aren't going to vote for Hillary in numbers sufficient to get her to 270. Therefore, the matter goes to the House where each state has one vote. A quick look at the map makes it clear that Trump wins easily in such a scenario. They've already alleged ballot manipulation and found some computer guy to back up that claim...that has failed. Now they're going after the electors to not vote for Trump even though he will surely win if the decision is thrown into the House.

Again...what's the end game?
Anything that results in anyone but Trump. The only possible outcomes from the electoral college are HRC, DT, Johnson, and Stein. Most states limit them to the candidates who were on the ballot in their state (of course most also take an oath that they will vote for the candidate elected by majority in their state). Utah's could vote for Evan McMullin for instance. If the vote is fractured enough, then the back room wheeling and dealing gets going for the House vote...Paul Ryan?
 
What specifically did the Russians do that changed the election?
The hacks into the DNC emails is an attempt to subvert and influence voters through reactions to this type of news.

I honestly think that DT and Putin have a deal in place for trade and business centered on oil (thus Exxon CEO appointed as Secy of State). I think Assange was used to distribute the info through WikiLeaks and has a deal in place with DT to be pardoned from his espionage charge. It wouldn't surprise me if Snowden is involved as well and also may have a pardon deal in place for his assistance.

This is going to make a great movie someday.
 
The hacks into the DNC emails is an attempt to subvert and influence voters through reactions to this type of news.

I honestly think that DT and Putin have a deal in place for trade and business centered on oil (thus Exxon CEO appointed as Secy of State). I think Assange was used to distribute the info through WikiLeaks and has a deal in place with DT to be pardoned from his espionage charge. It wouldn't surprise me if Snowden is involved as well and also may have a pardon deal in place for his assistance.

This is going to make a great movie someday.

This is getting fun... the libs are becoming loonier than all the "truthers" and the "Birthers" combined ....with all of their conspiracy theories
 
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Anything that results in anyone but Trump. The only possible outcomes from the electoral college are HRC, DT, Johnson, and Stein. Most states limit them to the candidates who were on the ballot in their state (of course most also take an oath that they will vote for the candidate elected by majority in their state). Utah's could vote for Evan McMullin for instance. If the vote is fractured enough, then the back room wheeling and dealing gets going for the House vote...Paul Ryan?

So the Dems are wanting the Republican electors to vote for someone other than the Republican who won their state because of leaks which exposed the Democrats effort to rig their primary in favor of their ultimate nominee ? You realize how crazy that sounds....right?
 
It's over. Yesterday all of the states certified and listed their electors. Obama's spokesman said no briefing by CIA, they might answer questions. The electors chosen yesterday vote Monday and send the results to Washington. It's down to just assigning blame and spreading discontent. There was always going to be discontent no matter which of these candidates won.

https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/key-dates.html
 
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So the Dems are wanting the Republican electors to vote for someone other than the Republican who won their state because of leaks which exposed the Democrats effort to rig their primary in favor of their ultimate nominee ? You realize how crazy that sounds....right?
It is crazy...and there have only been a few faithless electors in the entire history of the electoral college. I am not saying I am advocating this UNLESS there is hardcore proof that Russia engaged in activities that resulted in fraudulent votes being cast (i.e. somehow hacking electronic voting machines and rigging vote tallies) and if that happened an injunction to the entire process should be sought.
 
UNLESS there is hardcore proof that Russia engaged in activities that resulted in fraudulent votes being cast (i.e. somehow hacking electronic voting machines and rigging vote tallies) and if that happened an injunction to the entire process should be sought.

A part from that, the effort to dismiss this concern as groundless and Democratic "politics" is really cheap politics. If the integrity of our electoral process is so sacrosanct that it justifies taking away people's ability to vote because of the unproven speculation about voter fraud, then DT's dismissal of the evidence of Russian interference is the cheapest form of politicizing that we have seen.

What next?
 
A part from that, the effort to dismiss this concern as groundless and Democratic "politics" is really cheap politics. If the integrity of our electoral process is so sacrosanct that it justifies taking away people's ability to vote because of the unproven speculation about voter fraud, then DT's dismissal of the evidence of Russian interference is the cheapest form of politicizing that we have seen.

What next?
I read that several times and I still don't know what you said . I understand the first sentence . The second sentence is unfathomable .
 
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This is getting fun... the libs are becoming loonier than all the "truthers" and the "Birthers" combined ....with all of their conspiracy theories

It will get interesting if the house finds something and then it will be even better if we find out that Paul Manafort reached out to his buddies and funders in Moscow to direct attacks against the DNC and Clinton campaign. This will make Watergate look like child's play. Probably not likely but one can dream.




Along the same lines, here is a really wild story about fake news creators.

 
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Every argument comes back to the same premise....the Dems are not only questioning the legitimacy of the election (something which they said was a danger to our democracy) but are also trying to overturn the same. Why...because evidence of them trying to rig the primary election process was made public. I'm not sure I've ever seen anything more hypocritical.

I do agree that we should be concerned about Russian hacks. I also believe that there are far more dangerous systems which they might hack than the DNC.

I assume you guys have read that some precincts in the Detroit area were found to have logged up to 6 times the amount of votes as actual voters while 37% of all precincts in the Detroit area submitted more votes than actual voters. Source is the Detroit News.

The Dems have become the liberal version of the John Birch Society complete with the tin foil hats with these far fetched conspiracy theories.
 
Dems would never fall for fake news

I am curious what you find fake about that? It said trump won but implies that uncounted ballots may be in her favor. Any statistician or modeler, such as nate silver, would tell you that it probably didn't swing the election. Hell the recount in WI gave trump something like 131 more votes. Assuming that is true in EVERY state and there was zero mistakes for the GOP that would give trump something like 8,304 more votes across the United States based on WI's population. Given the :crap: the GOP pulled with driver's license facilities after passing voter ID laws in AL, I don't buy that every state would have revealed more votes for Trump. 8,304 is not greater than 2,641,608. The Electoral college is a joke.
 
Is this the one where the fake news creator said that he catered to conservatives because they were so gullible and the liberals kept fact checking and wouldn't fall for it?

Yes. It was also interesting how he said he didn't give a **** and accepted zero responsibility for anything.
 
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Dems would never fall for fake news

I was under the impression...perhaps incorrect... that there were some votes that were counted originally but were somehow unrecoverable for a recount because they were old style machines. If they were never counted, how do we know there were 75,335?
 
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Libs....what is the Dems end game here? Can't be anything but to try to undermine Trump's presidency correct?

Let's say enough Trump electors are convinced not to vote for Trump because Russia exposed the DNC's dirt. They certainly aren't going to vote for Hillary in numbers sufficient to get her to 270. Therefore, the matter goes to the House where each state has one vote. A quick look at the map makes it clear that Trump wins easily in such a scenario. They've already alleged ballot manipulation and found some computer guy to back up that claim...that has failed. Now they're going after the electors to not vote for Trump even though he will surely win if the decision is thrown into the House.

Again...what's the end game?
Endgame = Getting congress + the presidency back as soon as possible.
 
Be
I was under the impression...perhaps incorrect... that there were some votes that were counted originally but were somehow unrecoverable for a recount because they were old style machines. If they were never counted, how do we know there were 75,335?
cause that's the number of registered voters that signed for a ballot in those precincts. That's easy to figure out...the part about the vote tallies not equaling the number of ballots is the puzzling part. While you can assume a small number chose not to vote for president, 75k is a pretty large number
 
NBC is citing "sources" that Putin personally directed the hacking and leak efforts. If true and we know there is a Manafort connection along with the Exxon Mobil dude (SoS appointee) and a Trump connection with business dealings in Moscow to develop a hotel, this could be the Watergate of our generation.
 
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I was under the impression...perhaps incorrect... that there were some votes that were counted originally but were somehow unrecoverable for a recount because they were old style machines. If they were never counted, how do we know there were 75,335?

The number is the number of people who left the top of the ticket blank on their ballots. There are no uncounted ballots, just a guy spreading BS for libs to cling to
 
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Be

cause that's the number of registered voters that signed for a ballot in those precincts. That's easy to figure out...the part about the vote tallies not equaling the number of ballots is the puzzling part. While you can assume a small number chose not to vote for president, 75k is a pretty large number

It's roughly 15 voters out of every 1000 or 1.5%. I would think that's a fairly reasonable number. Funny because the most Democratic precincts turned in more votes that voters. Therefore, I would think any missing votes would have likely come from Republican precincts and make for even a larger Trump victory.
 
Endgame = Getting congress + the presidency back as soon as possible.

....and you think doing what Clinton called a danger to our democracy is appealing to those independents and blue collar Dems which went Pub in this election? Crap like this is why they abandoned the Democratic Party and voted for an outsider.
 
Be

cause that's the number of registered voters that signed for a ballot in those precincts. That's easy to figure out...the part about the vote tallies not equaling the number of ballots is the puzzling part. While you can assume a small number chose not to vote for president, 75k is a pretty large number
Okay, that's what you are talking about. I was confused, there was something about a smaller number of mismatched vote or missing ballots altogether. 4.8 million votes that is 1.5 per cent. In 2012 when there were much less controversial candidates 49,000 (about 1%) didn't vote for either. As disgusting as these two were, I am not surprised that 1.5% skipped it. As everyone knows by now, I voted for Johnson who got almost 6 percent in Oklahoma. That is simply another way of voting for none of the above plus a little protest. You can't force people to vote in any office. I left the judges blank because I hadn't studied them and didn't want to ini-meni-mo. I'm sure everyone knew these candidates but many couldn't see either one as President of the United States. You are right about small amount. 1.5% is a small amount.

Edit, if Johnson hadn't been there I would not voted for either of these totally unacceptable candidates.
 
NBC is citing "sources" that Putin personally directed the hacking and leak efforts.

Sources say there is a flying saucer in Area 51 and bodies were autopsied there. NBC's source is John Podesta.
 
....and you think doing what Clinton called a danger to our democracy is appealing to those independents and blue collar Dems which went Pub in this election? Crap like this is why they abandoned the Democratic Party and voted for an outsider.
Seemed to work for the Pubs that they just voted in.
 
Rather than just 'voting' for the view that supports one's political inclinations, how about finding out what really happened? No one has ever shown that not having strigent voter ID laws affected an election, but states went to huge expense and effort to demand them. Why not examine situations where the outcome could actually have been affected? Or is ignoring these situations just more politics as usual?
 
Sources say there is a flying saucer in Area 51 and bodies were autopsied there. NBC's source is John Podesta.

It is interesting that many of the GOPers in the Senate are ready to look into this. Cyber security is a huge issue. I find it truly interesting that the DNC and the democratic campaign was targeted in this election. I mean if wikileaks was all about fairness and transparency, we could have seen all of the great e-mails from the RNC calling their evangelical base foaming at the mouth sheep who are now supporting a philandering asshole. I am not sure what the public really gains by having all these "insights." I got to listen to my "educated" friends call the democratic primary "rigged" because the DNC wanted HRC over Bernie. So many people just don't understand how the real world works. My favorite recent one is how John Podesta is trying to undermine the Catholic Church because he thinks the pope and cardinal system is ridiculous and is supporting Catholic groups for a more democratic church. Frankly after the pervasive child abuse scandal, I don't know how you couldn't think that. I know me and 1000s, if not millions of other Catholics think that too.
 
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Rather than just 'voting' for the view that supports one's political inclinations, how about finding out what really happened? No one has ever shown that not having strigent voter ID laws affected an election, but states went to huge expense and effort to demand them. Why not examine situations where the outcome could actually have been affected? Or is ignoring these situations just more politics as usual?
No one has shown much in this whole controversy. CIA says some friendly nations told them the Putin was behind the DNC hacks. That is not exactly evidence. No one has shown that the DNC hacks was that big of a deal in voting. No one has shown anything about actual voting and no one has even claimed there was any problem only that it is theoretically possible. State authorities both Democrat and Republican find no reason to doubt an honest count.

You start with the idea that the election was stolen and you need to find out how.
 
Sources say there is a flying saucer in Area 51 and bodies were autopsied there. NBC's source is John Podesta.

Shooting the messenger to defend the Donald and Putin? How quickly one's postion can change. It amazing how many anti Trump people have jumped on the Trump bandwagon after election. From Paul Ryan to posters here. Is it just hopeful optimism? Fatigue from a 2 year electoral process? Or just wanting to be on the winning side? Previous concerns about the integrity of our electoral system do not seem to make the list, but then those were trumped up for political reasons anyway.
 
Shooting the messenger to defend the Donald and Putin? How quickly one's postion can change. It amazing how many anti Trump people have jumped on the Trump bandwagon after election. From Paul Ryan to posters here. Is it just hopeful optimism? Fatigue from a 2 year electoral process? Or just wanting to be on the winning side? Previous concerns about the integrity of our electoral system do not seem to make the list, but then those were trumped up for political reasons anyway.

Doubt anyone on here has "jumped on the bandwagon" or changed their opinion of Trump the man. But the fact of the matter is he won and that's that. How long can I continue to harp on the fact that he's a garbage human being and people made a mistake by voting for him? I can only criticize where I think it is deserved. Should the Russian hacking situation be investigated? Absolutely, but only because they're assholes and need to be held accountable for trying to campaign on a candidate's behalf. Not because the legitimacy of the election is in question. If somehow there was coordination with Trump that would merit impeachment of course, but there's no evidence of that thus far.
 
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No one has shown much in this whole controversy. CIA says some friendly nations told them the Putin was behind the DNC hacks. That is not exactly evidence. No one has shown that the DNC hacks was that big of a deal in voting.

The second sentence is incorrect. The "no one" litany is just a defense of continued ignorance. The FBI notified the parties over a year ago. Forensic IT identified the Russians last May. The RNC threatened Obama about going public that they were hacked during the campaign. RNC info not released BTW. The evidence of Russian meddling is far greater than that for the voter fraud myths which have been defended vigorously by Trump and others on down to here.

Why all the sudden avoidance, other than not disturbing the outcome one prefers?
 
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Doubt anyone on here has "jumped on the bandwagon" or changed their opinion of Trump the man. But the fact of the matter is he won and that's that. How long can I continue to harp on the fact that he's a garbage human being and people made a mistake by voting for him? I can only criticize where I think it is deserved. Should the Russian hacking situation be investigated? Absolutely, but only because they're assholes and need to be held accountable for trying to campaign on a candidate's behalf. Not because the legitimacy of the election is in question. If somehow there was coordination with Trump that would merit impeachment of course, but there's no evidence of that thus far.
I can agree with you on this sentiment.

I also judge him by the quality of people he's surrounded himself with though, and so far his staff isn't totally laden with men and women of character shall we say.
 
I can agree with you on this sentiment.

I also judge him by the quality of people he's surrounded himself with though, and so far his staff isn't totally laden with men and women of character shall we say.

That's fair. I'm not thrilled with the cabinet so far. Some are ok. Picking the Exxon CEO with a man crush on Putin over Romney doesn't look like a winner. According to CNN Romney apparently lost out because he refused to apologize. Good for Mitt
 
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Doubt anyone on here has "jumped on the bandwagon" or changed their opinion of Trump the man. But the fact of the matter is he won and that's that. How long can I continue to harp on the fact that he's a garbage human being and people made a mistake by voting for him? .

Fair enough, although when top elected officials such as Ryan start defending Trump's antagonistic relationship with the truth and reality because he won, it makes me queasy. The uneven treatment of voter fraud vs foreign meddling in elections seems a similar trading of integrity for support.
 
100% agree on republicans in congress pretending it's not a big deal. There is no plausible reason for them to oppose an investigation other than partisanship. If it had been the other way around they'd be talking about nothing else. And yeah not many showed integrity during the campaign.
 
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