Net Rankings
- Thread starter URedskin54
- Start date
In Haith’s tenure it seems like we win close and lose big an awful lot so we probably don’t do as well on a purely efficiency based metric, but I think there is an RPI-ish portion of NET that factors in W/L
Dougie was great at being the first loser in many games but dougie scheduled up 20 wins to be the winningest coach at Tulsa 😂
Not to sound like Bigzit, but that is unAmerican, especially this year where there will be uneven records.
Winning has to matter most. This is ripe for abuse.
The other issue is which random metrics are you throwing in? Conference games, especially against teams you’ve already played, are going to be harder than Some beautiful win against a team you will never play again in one of the few OOC games.
The NET will now use just two factors in its evaluation: team value index (TVI) and adjusted net efficiency rating. Team value index is "a result-based feature that rewards teams for beating quality opponents, particularly away from home," while adjusted net efficiency rating accounts for "strength of opponent and location across all games played
What is meant by Adjusted Net Efficiency?
Adjusted Net Efficiency is a measure of a team’s overall performance during the regular season, determined by the difference between offensive efficiency (points per possession) and defensive efficiency (opponents points per possession). It also accounts for strength of opponents (as measured by their adjusted net efficiency) and location (home/away/neutral) of the games (against Division I opponents only).
What is meant by Team Value Index?
Team Value Index is the results-oriented component of the NET, ranking more highly those teams that played and beat other good teams, factoring in opponent, location of the game and winner.
What does location of the game mean to a team’s NET ranking?
In both Adjusted Net Efficiency and Team Value Index, the same performance against the same opponent will be valued more on the road than at a neutral site, and more at a neutral site than at home. The amount of this location adjustment is based on the data itself, as teams tend to generally perform worse on the road than neutral than at home, so adjusting for that allows for fairer comparisons than just using raw values.
Adjusted Net Efficiency is a measure of a team’s overall performance during the regular season, determined by the difference between offensive efficiency (points per possession) and defensive efficiency (opponents points per possession). It also accounts for strength of opponents (as measured by their adjusted net efficiency) and location (home/away/neutral) of the games (against Division I opponents only).
What is meant by Team Value Index?
Team Value Index is the results-oriented component of the NET, ranking more highly those teams that played and beat other good teams, factoring in opponent, location of the game and winner.
What does location of the game mean to a team’s NET ranking?
In both Adjusted Net Efficiency and Team Value Index, the same performance against the same opponent will be valued more on the road than at a neutral site, and more at a neutral site than at home. The amount of this location adjustment is based on the data itself, as teams tend to generally perform worse on the road than neutral than at home, so adjusting for that allows for fairer comparisons than just using raw values.
You mean it's going to do what it was designed to do while having just enough "black box" to it for no one to be able to prove when they fudge the numbers and the seeming math formula equation removing complaints of human bias, all so they could get the teams they want in, match up the teams they want to keep out so they can eliminate their threat early and secure the most money for the p5 just like football???
[Deep breath] No way!
This system was set up with the goal of eliminating smaller conferences ability to use the rpi formula to "game the system" i.e. end ranked higher than ACC teams with 7-11 conference records who never left their home floor ooc and went 13-0 beating little sisters of the poor 93-26 (See Syracuse).
Last year the basketball gurus nearly nailed the entire formula down perfect, which occassionally showed some weird outliers. This year formula change and strengthening of the vaguest part of the formula. Which is why we desperately need a you can only qualify for an at large bid with a better than .500 conference record including your conference tournament. Barring that rule it is a matter of three to four seasons before every at large goes to the p5 and even the BE and AAC struggle to get the extra bids.
A side effect of this switch has been its benefits to the AAC and BE unintentionally, the p5 powers care only about money and don't believe in competing for it, they will soon move to cut down its benefits for the unintended recipients just as they tried to do by tweaking the rpi after the MVC had that incredible year. They were unable to prevent good scheduling from continuing to keep some mid majors high knocking out USC, Northwesterns, NC States, etc so they changed the rules after figuring out what criteria would most benefit those teams.
I believe its referred to as systematic oppression.
If making the NCAA tournament were just about who mathematically has the strongest team there would be nothing wrong with efficiency rating as the metric. It’s usually a pretty good predictor of game outcomes. But accomplishment has to mean something. I’d rather have the team that eeked out two top 10 wins and got blown out in 3 others than the team that lost all 5 games by 1 point, even though the latter is likely a slightly better team. That’s what the NCAA attempts to do with the quad system but there are always subjective reasons they can find to ignore their objective criteria
No Games today January 25th. This is the updated rankings. Memphis has moved to a Q1 win on the road for now.
NET Rankings Through January 24
Houston 4
SMU 52
Wichita St. 70
Memphis 71
Tulsa 83
UCF 93
Temple 118
Cincinnati 121
South Fla. 122
East Carolina 155
Tulane 200
Quadrant Tracker
Q1
Win
Houston H W 4
Memphis A W 71
Loss
Houston A L 4
Wichita St. A L 70
Q2
Win
Cincinnati A W 121
Memphis H W 71
South Fla. A W 122
Loss
Wichita St. H L 70
Q3
Win
Loss
South Carolina N L 110
TCU N L 102
Q4
Wins
Northwestern St. H W 326
UT Arlington H W 223
Loss
NET Rankings Through January 24
Houston 4
SMU 52
Wichita St. 70
Memphis 71
Tulsa 83
UCF 93
Temple 118
Cincinnati 121
South Fla. 122
East Carolina 155
Tulane 200
Quadrant Tracker
Q1
Win
Houston H W 4
Memphis A W 71
Loss
Houston A L 4
Wichita St. A L 70
Q2
Win
Cincinnati A W 121
Memphis H W 71
South Fla. A W 122
Loss
Wichita St. H L 70
Q3
Win
Loss
South Carolina N L 110
TCU N L 102
Q4
Wins
Northwestern St. H W 326
UT Arlington H W 223
Loss
We really need TCU ans SC to move up to 100 or better. SMU is our only current chance at another Q1 win.
I am almost at the "all hope is lost" stage of a Frank Haith TU basketball season. That means we probably need one more crushing loss to make me completely give up right before we enter the "I knew we were good the whole time" stage and run off 8 straight victories.
A lot of those wins come from "The sisters of the poor"....That was Nolan Richardson's
name for teams that were too bad to take seriously.....
yes TU will be just playing out the season. Even with an SMU split, there isa assuredly another horrible game on the road to come. There will not be a NIT this year, but even if there is why?
A team that upset UH at home and upset Memphis on the road is not worthy after a loss at a mediocre if not bad Temple team. This season is toast.
A team that upset UH at home and upset Memphis on the road is not worthy after a loss at a mediocre if not bad Temple team. This season is toast.
I wouldn’t say that yet here in the world of the Covid. The loss yesterday hurt. I don’t know what happened to us but it needs to be addressed. Also that game was pushed up to us by the conference. I’m not trying to make excuses but it is what it is. I look at it this way. If we can win out and make it to the finals of the conference tournament that will give us at least 1 more Q1 win and some Q2 wins to add to it. That might get us an at large as there is an extra spot open thanks to the Ivy League.
I might be. You might be right but looking at the conference last couple years and then this year we are looking better as a whole IMO. Maybe it’s because of a shortened non conference schedule? The Temple loss is only listed as a Q2. They keep that steady and it’s not considered a bad loss.
If it comes down to the eye test between us and somebody else, I think they'll see somebody else in the tournament.
If we were even considered, it would almost have to come down to the eye test. Cuz we wouldn't be that high up on the ladder of considerations. We can always hope.
If we sweep Smu we will erase that bad temple stumble and be exactly where we were as nobody has us sweeping Smu. We would win the summit league tournament every year and go to the ncaa every year as a 16 seed but I don’t think that’s what we want.
Unfortunately if we were in the Summit league, we would not be able to recruit as well as ORU I'm afraid. Rachal, Joiner and Shumate don't want to play in the Summit league. Just have to win out......we have had to say that for the last 4 years it seems and it never happens.
Everybody but ECU and Tulane is a top 120 team. We will still see huge jumps as there are teams in the system at 15+ games and some under ten so it will even out eventually but probably not till almost march because of covid pauses.
It's tough situation, someone posted we were one more loss away from the we are doomed before a ten game winning streak we seem to have every year under Haith. Memphis rolling is good for us, as is still having two shots at SMU. We have a ton of winnable games and a majority of the games at home so hopefully we can get rolling and rack up some efficiency with momentum.
Haith warned if people aren't producing their spots are up for grabs. It seems a bit late to me, but I like the way Schumate responded and I think a change in play or a change in players has to happen.
It depends on when you look. That's what makes it frustrating.
I will have to look for it but I was also seeing an article that said some conferences might not have their conference tourney at all as they would have to do a bubble and that might not be cost effective.
Good. Leaves a spot for us.
Houston is an early out in the Tourney anyway per their seeding.
Sampson's "over the back" style wont work in the Big Dance. Look for Houston to get in foul trouble.
GO TU!!!!
