Money for workers or Money for the economy?

[TUMe]

It has to be both.

There must be money for workers who are in need. This is beyond question.

But there must also be serious money for the economy. That is where the money for workers is missing. Until jobs return, money to tide workers over will be needed forever. People want to work. Work isn't just a chore, it is also something people need to keep their morale up and to continue their careers. People don't want to be "locked" in their home indefinitely. Surely, there can be a compromise that gives people needed resources to get through this and gets job creation to resume.

 

[lawpoke87]

1) Give people the temporary money needed to tide them over while they are out of work due to the government's quarantine order
2) Give businesses the necessary relief necessary to ensure they remain solvent so those people will have jobs to return too

I don't see how this is complicated. It's going to take both.

 

[URedskin54]

It's going to take both, but also it's not going to be enough

 

[lawpoke87]

True. They're going to have to pass the first and then see what's needed down the road for the second.

 

[TUMe]

It's going to take both, but also it's not going to be enough

It will be enough, it is just a question of how long it will take. It certainly has went far past the couple of weeks Trump said at first. It most likely will take years. 1? 10? It might take an old fashion idea: Stocks paying significant dividends. As long is stocks are soaring, people as less interested in dividends because it defers the taxes when you reap no real cash benefit each year as the stock prices goes. Up but I think there will be a lot more interest in "give me some money now" and the trading price going up.

 

[URedskin54]

This is going on everywhere already. Lots of these places will not be back, stimulus or not

 

[URedskin54]

And fwiw, my company is seeing at least half of our major clients shutting down projects / implementations. Many of them are large retailers that have just barely adjusted and kept themselves viable dealing with Amazon. This will knock several of them out for good within the next year.

 

[lawpoke87]

Thousands upon thousands of businesses will fail. My company is good for the next 60 days. After that it gets very dicey.

 

[URedskin54]

Thousands upon thousands of businesses will fail. My company is good for the next 60 days. After that it gets very dicey.

Wife and I are discussing which neighbors we let take the spare bedroom when the foreclosures inevitably come (assuming I get spared in the layoffs).

 

[aTUfan]

how will the money be distributed? Use tax returns, use the welfare roles, ?

what if the person is still working and getting paid?

 

[aTUfan]

no member of Congress, the WH or the Supreme court, their aids and contract workers should receive any relief money, due to conflict of interest.

 

[TUMe]

What does every one think of 1) President Trump's talk of going back to normal and riding it out 2) Pelosi's list of requirements?

Are both bluffing or is it games with time we might not have?

This was, yesterday, said that the bill would advance. Now this is a pollical football.

 

[lawpoke87]

Listened to Cuomo’s press conference today. He talked about risk stratification. Basically, the country is going to need to get back to work. Sounds like their going to green light young people / low risk people first and keep the elderly quarantined. He also said this will be a state by state decision which makes sense since they have jurisdiction. If we have an effective or even semi-effective treatment the decision for low risk Americans to get back to semi-normal will be much easier. Assume a fatality rate of .02% or lower for that group is low enough to move forward.

The demands I’ve seen from Pelosi seem too ridiculous to have been put in an emergency funding bill during the biggest economic crisis in almost 100 years so I’ll assume they’re fake. At least I hope as much.

 

[Clong83a]

how will the money be distributed? Use tax returns, use the welfare roles, ?

what if the person is still working and getting paid?

AOC, whom I typically find to be a moron, actually had a reasonable idea on this. It will take too much time and effort to sort it out and figure out who is most needy. Going by 2018's tax returns will have giant holes that people can fall into if they have lost jobs since then, etc.

She said we should pay everybody, Bill Gates included, and when you file your 2020 tax return you may be required to give it back if you really didn't need it after all. I am okay with that, and it seems like a pragmatic approach. It will cost too much time and money to figure it out a priori, and people are hurting and need money asap.

 

[aTUfan]

Do homeless really need it. Or should their share go to soup kitchens

 

[Clong83a]

Do homeless really need it. Or should their share go to soup kitchens

I don't know why you think it would be easier to sift out the indigent from the recently unemployed than it would be the well-to-do to everybody else. It would be even harder, if anything. And might cost more in manpower and time than it would if you just wrote them all a check.

But don't worry, for most of the long term homeless, the checks will not be deliverable or cashed anyways. I would not object if any undeliverable amount went to local charities such as soup kitchens and the like. That is, effectively, their share.

 

[aTUfan]

aoc advocated for just sending the checks out and then prorate the need on next years income tax. where do you send the check, direct deposit, filing a tax return?

 

[lawpoke87]

I’ll leave this here without comment

 

[TUMe]

I’ll leave this here without comment

View embedded media

I was going to make a donation out of the money we are getting, but I think Nancy killed that.

 

[aTUfan]

Our economy is based on comerce and the exchange of goods ( money ). The money is still there, but right now all that is put on hold.

 

[TUMe]

Nancy gave a weak endorsement of the Senate ratified bill. That should be enough to get it through the House. No money for the Arts or her other stalling proposals. But in reality they can't walk away from people left with no income through no fault of their own.

Trump will back down on going back to normal in two weeks or kiss his re-election good bye. He has came out okay so far, but such action would crush the goodwill he is now enjoying.

This might not be the last money bill for those left out in the cold.

 

[URedskin54]

Another client today laid off nearly all of their corporate office

 

[lawpoke87]

Friend of mine laid off 14 yesterday. Retail.

 

[TUMe]

My son is still hiring but that is Nebraska in agro business chemicals and this is the busy season for corn. Hopefully this will be a distant memory by Fall.

 

[URedskin54]

Seems like this is going to rapidly hasten the move to mega corporations providing nearly all goods and services.

 

[aTUfan]

the bill excluded properties owned by Trump.

It should also exclude all business holding of any congressman or family.

 

[Clong83a]

the bill excluded properties owned by Trump.

It should also exclude all business holding of any congressman or family.

It does.

 

[TUMe]

Okay, Unless it is elsewhere in this bill, there is no money for insurance lost. I don't pretend to know. Or other benefits lost?

Pass the damn bill. Call it severance.

 

[lawpoke87]

Sure would be nice to see a law which prohibited

the bill excluded properties owned by Trump.

It should also exclude all business holding of any congressman or family.

Technically correct but it does give the House an extra $25M to spend or $57K per member. To be used on more staff, mailings, etc.. You knew they would put something in there to benefit them

 

[TUMe]

I am a life long Republican, but this money is going to Americans who are in a financial bind thru no fault of their own. And in 2009-2010 they did the same thing over a longer period. This is for a shorter time on the assumption that the coronavirus will have finished in 4 months give or take. If it doesn't then there is a huge problem.

 

[URedskin54]

I am a life long Republican, but this money is going to Americans who are in a financial bind thru no fault of their own. And in 2009-2010 they did the same thing over a longer period. This is for a shorter time on the assumption that the coronavirus will have finished in 4 months give or take. If it doesn't then there is a huge problem.

Yeah it would be quite a thing for the government to say “you’re not allowed to work....ohh and also...you have to support yourself”

 

[aTUfan]

it is easier for countries with more authoritative governments to issue edict for its people. Here we have certain liberties and right that limit the government

 

[astonmartin708]

Someone came up with a good idea in the Senate.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/26/sen...ld-cut-pay-for-execs-at-bailed-out-firms.html

 

[TUMe]

Someone came up with a good idea in the Senate.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/26/sen...ld-cut-pay-for-execs-at-bailed-out-firms.html

I don't have a problem with this but I would point out that these (overpaid) executives did not cause this problem.

 

[astonmartin708]

I don't have a problem with this but I would point out that these (overpaid) executives did not cause this problem.

Not necessarily caused some have been running their companies in a poor manner for sometime. They might be in a better place to deal with the fallout if the executives took more reasonable pay and the company kept more money on hand / in savings.

I know it’s not a perfect metaphor, but it’s ironic that workers are advised to keep an emergency fund of 3 months expenses, but many of these companies can’t survive more than 2 weeks without income.

 

[aTUfan]

The dems and media are critical of funds going to prop up businesses. Once this is over, where will people work if businesses are allowed to fail at this time?

also where is the media criticism about the non virus pork proposed by the dems

 

[Clong83a]

The dems and media are critical of funds going to prop up businesses. Once this is over, where will people work if businesses are allowed to fail at this time?

also where is the media criticism about the non virus pork proposed by the dems

I've not heard that at all. What media are you watching?

There is rational debate over who gets what, and under what terms. Ie, giveaways or interest free loans. Or how much goes to corporations vs. small businesses. But I've never heard anyone halfway serious suggest that businesses should get nothing. That would be, as you suggest, a self imposed atomic bomb dropped on our economy.

As for the pork, I agree it is awful. Both sides have gotten into it though, so it is useless to lay it solely at the feet of the dems. It's a problem with Congressmen and Senators in general, not a particular political party.

For example, some pork that the Republicans put into the final bill: $26 million for TSA workers to get paid overtime, even though nobody is working overtime because nobody is flying right now. Or $45 million for the Agricultural Marketing Service to grade beef, eggs, and, pork. We could debate the merits of either one of those in good faith. But what does either have to do with the current crisis? Nothing.

 

[URedskin54]

The fact that most businesses can’t go more than a couple weeks without income has virtually no connection to how well they are being run.

 

[lawpoke87]

The misconceptions from some regarding small businesses simply amaze me. Most small business owners aren’t rich. Most small business owners work more than 40 hours a week. Small business owners in labor intensive industries like restaurants often don’t have the amount of excess cash lying around to keep the business afloat for any extended period of time if they continue to pay salaries, rent, utilities, etc... Their problem isnt mismanagement it’s not being rich. I’m always at a loss why the left hates on small business owners who work hard and employ others.

 

[Clong83a]

The misconceptions from some regarding small businesses simply amaze me. Most small business owners aren’t rich. Most small business owners work more than 40 hours a week. Small business owners in labor intensive industries like restaurants often don’t have the amount of excess cash lying around to keep the business afloat for any extended period of time if they continue to pay salaries, rent, utilities, etc... Their problem isnt mismanagement it’s not being rich. I’m always at a loss why the left hates on small business owners who work hard and employ others.

FWIW, I assumed aston was talking about bigger corporations that already have their hand out. Agree with everything you said about small businesses. Except that the left goes out of their way to hate on them, but that's another discussion. The salient point remains that small businesses shouldn't be expected to have many months worth of cash reserves. That's exactly why they are small businesses. Just people making a living.

I have a friend in Santa Fe who owns a shoe store. Closed now, obviously, but still selling shoes if you email him and give him an address to ship to. I was thinking that I'd email him and buy $150 in gift certificates as an advance on my next pair of shoes. Been trying to think of ways I can help other places too.