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Marrion and Kinne

Don't really have a side in this argument, but IMO Allen's brief success was likely due to his hiring of Kalen DeBoer in 2019 and whatever of that carried over to the covid year after he left. Or maybe Allen just did a decent job continuing the upward trajectory IU was on....as Graham did after Kragthorpe. Who knows. FWIW, in 2019 13 of the returning players who had started games were recruited by the previous staff.
 
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I think it depends on whether giving the coach credit for those years supports their argument or hurts it ... The reality I'm sure is somewhere in the middle, but that's not fun for a message board. As I vaguely recall, most of the skill players on O were JRs or SRs at least in 2019 but I don't know if they were transfers.

Whatever, I think one thing we can all agree on is that when Allen was fully on his own, with guys he recruited and developed, the bottom fell out.
His tenure is certainly a weird deal. IU was 6-2 and finished #12 in the country in 2020. Their highest end of season ranking I can recall. 82 of the 85 players were ones he signed. Bottom fell out in 2021. Maybe due to coaches leaving? Players leaving at the 2020 season? Maybe he got burnt out? The fact remains that coaching football at IU is one of the toughest jobs in the country
 
Since we are talking about Indiana, I knew they've historically been a bad football program... but wow it is really really bad. Allen had two +.500 seasons in conference (2019 and 2020). Before that, Indiana wasn't above .500 in conference since 1993!
Lol, yeah, you really have to look at what a dumpster fire they've been to decide if KW or Allen did "well".
 
His tenure is certainly a weird deal. IU was 6-2 and finished #12 in the country in 2020. Their highest end of season ranking I can recall. 82 of the 85 players were ones he signed. Bottom fell out in 2021. Maybe due to coaches leaving? Players leaving at the 2020 season? Maybe he got burnt out? The fact remains that coaching football at IU is one of the toughest jobs in the country
The COVID year was weird everywhere. That year stood out for Monty, too.
 
Since we are talking about Indiana, I knew they've historically been a bad football program... but wow it is really really bad. Allen had two +.500 seasons in conference (2019 and 2020). Before that, Indiana wasn't above .500 in conference since 1993!
Lee Corso was the coach there in the late 80s and his record was woeful. Sam Wyche was the HC there for 1 season (1983) and I think they went 3-8. Prior to that he was the QB coach for the SF 49ers (1979-1982)...umm, we know who he coached during those years. Even after going 3-8 with Indiana in 1983, he still got the HC job with the Bengals. Point is, guys who know football and obviously good coaches, failed miserably at Indiana. Making the jump from an assistant in college to HC is not as easy or natural as many people think. For a college head coach, it's not all about x's and o's. All these guys know the x's and o's stuff. It's really about organization and management and there's a crap ton to manage at the college level. It's also about who you know in the coaching ranks and who can you convince to come help you with a rebuild (and in some cases convincing young athletes that coming to play at a place that is clearly basketball centric with one of the biggest personalities in college sports coaching the men's basketball team would be a good thing for them) is key. Kragthorpe was a master at it. Graham was good at it (until his aspirations got in his way of focusing at the job at hand and looking at the next big "dream job"). Burns was awful at it. Do I think Burns understood x's and o's, especially on defense? Sure. He was brutal with the other stuff. I think BB was actually good at the management stuff but let his ego get in the way in terms of the x's and o's and not giving up a little control. Monty...not sure he cared about or for the management stuff and we all know his ego dragged him down. He did convince an awful lot of good assistants to come to TU and be a part of it though.

I think Wilson, especially after Indiana, has learned how to be better at all the other stuff that isn't x's and o's.
 
Yeah, it's too bad that season was shortened as that was an all-time great defense for TU.
Didn’t our offense score about 10 points a game for the opposition that year 😁
 
Looking at the year if Monty hadn't taken two OL starters with him the offense would most likely have been better. Three key DBs graduated and OSU took two starters. Wilson tried to replace them with some success but depth caught up to us. We had walk-ons and former walk-ons playing all over the place. We will be better. The last three years under Monty were not in the top 100 in recruiting.
 
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How about OC?
We're only making an OC change if someone comes and gets Spurrier which would suck. I think he has a lot of credibility in recruiting and I think he's a good QB coach. Now that it seems we've ID'd Francis as the QB moving forward barring a stud coming via the portal, I think Francis has a lot of the requisite skills and football IQ needed to run the offense successfully.
 
Barrick Nealy is newly unemployed and could help substantially in recruiting and mentoring young players from Texas, especially transfers and QBs.
 
Looking at the year if Monty hadn't taken two OL starters with him the offense would most likely have been better. Three key DBs graduated and OSU took two starters. Wilson tried to replace them with some success but depth caught up to us. We had walk-ons and former walk-ons playing all over the place. We will be better. The last three years under Monty were not in the top 100 in recruiting.
Iirc only 7 of the 22 starters for the final game started their career at TU on scholarship. Put another way, the roster and recruiting was so atrociously mismanaged over the last two years of PM, a majority of our team was walk ons, former walk ons, and transfers. The current group of underclassmen do not promise to remedy that in the next two years.
 
Not to pick on him but Zaid Hamdan being given a late scholarship offer last spring and then seeing extensive playing time after barely seeing the field at multiple FCS schools is a pretty strong indicator of what our roster situation was like at the end for Monty
 
He’s an honor student. He was an elite wrestler. He was all state in Ohio out of high school and played in several games over several seasons at Ohio State before transferring. One of those FCS schools was James Madison. He’s pretty much the prototype of what you might be looking for if he was from Poteau and couldn’t break into the ones at OU. Wilson is entitled to have culture guys on the roster and in the lockerroom.
 
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