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Marco Rubio, Trump, Immigration

TulsaRulzOSUdrools

I.T.S. Sophomore
May 1, 2007
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Little Marco got on TV and said that there are now 30 million illegals and now wants them all shipped out. Does anyone care to think that this country could afford to have 30 million people shipped out?

Marco Rubio is an anchor baby. Should he be forced out?

 
Little Marco got on TV and said that there are now 30 million illegals and now wants them all shipped out. Does anyone care to think that this country could afford to have 30 million people shipped out?

Marco Rubio is an anchor baby. Should he be forced out?

He's parroting Stephen Miller's plan. He's parroting most of Trumps positions after that. He sounds like he is taking up Giuliani's mantle, in order to try & pick up the VP spot.
 
Little Marco got on TV and said that there are now 30 million illegals and now wants them all shipped out. Does anyone care to think that this country could afford to have 30 million people shipped out?

Marco Rubio is an anchor baby. Should he be forced out?

Is he considering people born in this country to be illegals?

30 million sounds high to me but I’m not sure anyone really knows the number….and no, you can’t ship 30M out of the country.
 
Is he considering people born in this country to be illegals?

30 million sounds high to me but I’m not sure anyone really knows the number….and no, you can’t ship 30M out of the country.
if their parents were, they should be
 
if their parents were, they should be
If you were born in this country and they were raised in this country, they shouldn't be punished for the fathers sins. You are an A1 classy kind of guy aTUfan. What high morals you have. Sending a kid that has known nothing but America back to a latin American country is primo. Some of those kids don't even know Spanish.
 
If you were born in this country and they were raised in this country, they shouldn't be punished for the fathers sins. You are an A1 classy kind of guy aTUfan. What high morals you have. Sending a kid that has known nothing but America back to a latin American country is primo. Some of those kids don't even know Spanish.
It sounds so cool and easy until you realize what the deportation of 30M looks like. It would be the entire state of Texas. Good luck.
 
take you pick, 10 years, 20 years ... no more anchor babies.

Please use the front door
How about 150? I’m sure I can find some of your ancestors through that time that didn’t come through the front door.
 
It would cause a shortage in employees in the service industries of Hotels & Restaurants, Lawn Care, the Housing industry(for repair renovation and building of new housing), the Health Care industry, and many many other industries. It would also cause inflation in those industries, in order to make those jobs more attractive to US citizens. But the labor shortage would still be there. Even if they were to spend inordinate amounts of money to find and deport half of those immigrants, that would still be 15 mil. That's nearly 5% of our population. That would likely take up a large part if not all of our unemployed populace. There would not be enough labor to replace these illegal immigrants, and that's only if they found just half of them.

This is not a feasible and well thought out plan. It is only a plan that has been formed to make it's enactment possible, by a racist white supremacist named Stephen Miller. He is probably the worst influencer of Trump. Stephen Miller would be a top General and administrator for Hitler, if he were placed in Germany circa the 1940's. The guy is that repulsive. He is where some of Trump's worst impulses were formed. Trump is really not an influencer, he is an influencee. It is people like Miller who are influencing the nation through Trump as a puppet. Nobody in Trump's unformed new administration has even thought about the ramifications of this policy, just how to git er done.
 
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There are more than 1 million people in this country with final orders of removal. People that have been afforded due process for their asylum and immigration claims, but were unsuccessful. Some have been in the country for more than a decade.

The current administration has done little to enforce those deportation orders, unlike the Obama and Trump administrations.

There are another at least 300,000 with deportable criminal convictions who have been allowed to remain while their asylum cases are pending.

Approximately 3% of all students over stay their student visas every year. This number is now over a million people. Little is done to enforce these over stays.

These are Congress’ own numbers.

Operationally, the difficulty is not deporting the entire state of Texas, which would be cumbersome, it’s returning them to their country of origin - who has little interest in providing social services to returned felons, orphaned children, and people who will flee the country again.

During the process of deporting persons who should be removed, officers inevitably encounter persons who are not authorized to remain who are much more sympathetic. So deporting cartel members becomes difficult when they reside with their undocumented 91 year old grandmother and niece who is 8 months pregnant.

These are complicated issues with multiple overlapping priorities. Each with its own downside.

The system is broken and needs to be fixed. That doesn’t absolve the executive branch’s obligation to enforce all laws. Or empower the executive to invoke broad discretionary authority to not enforce laws on the grounds of expediency or efficiency to reach discrete political ends.
 
There are more than 1 million people in this country with final orders of removal. People that have been afforded due process for their asylum and immigration claims, but were unsuccessful. Some have been in the country for more than a decade.

The current administration has done little to enforce those deportation orders, unlike the Obama and Trump administrations.

There are another at least 300,000 with deportable criminal convictions who have been allowed to remain while their asylum cases are pending.

Approximately 3% of all students over stay their student visas every year. This number is now over a million people. Little is done to enforce these over stays.

These are Congress’ own numbers.

Operationally, the difficulty is not deporting the entire state of Texas, which would be cumbersome, it’s returning them to their country of origin - who has little interest in providing social services to returned felons, orphaned children, and people who will flee the country again.

During the process of deporting persons who should be removed, officers inevitably encounter persons who are not authorized to remain who are much more sympathetic. So deporting cartel members becomes difficult when they reside with their undocumented 91 year old grandmother and niece who is 8 months pregnant.

These are complicated issues with multiple overlapping priorities. Each with its own downside.

The system is broken and needs to be fixed. That doesn’t absolve the executive branch’s obligation to enforce all laws. Or empower the executive to invoke broad discretionary authority to not enforce laws on the grounds of expediency or efficiency to reach discrete political ends.
That's where they need to start, by fixing the system. That way this problem continue to happen the way it has been happening. They had Biden between a rock and a hard place, because he is losing support. Biden gave the Republicans things the Democrats have refused to give the Republicans in forever, to start turning around that problem with support. If you try to solve the problem after the fact, which is what this deportation situation is doing, it creates it's own intractable problems.(which you were referencing) Fixing those problems before they become intractable in the future is prudent.

Trump refused to let him put legislation through, so as not to give him a victory and the Republicans supported Trump in doing this. If the Republicans were confident in their message they should have put that legislation through. This could have been turned into a victory for the Republicans, if it was put to the public properly.
 
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This case just became a local story as the accused murderer/rapist was arrested by the Tulsa Police Dept here in Tulsa. He also apparenlty killed someone in El Salvador prior to entering the U.S.

 
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This case just became a local story as the accused murderer/rapist was arrested by the Tulsa Police Dept here in Tulsa. He also apparenlty killed someone in El Salvador prior to entering the U.S.

I can't wait to see this on fox news. I get tired of seeing trumpy anecdotal evidence. Even at one of it's high points it was 62 murders in one year by illegal immigrants. It has run at about half that amount for the past year and a half.(29 last year and 14 for the last 6 mo.) That is not statistically significant.

That's 62 people out of approximately 20M illegal immigrants at it's high point, compared to more than 21k in the rest of the population. NOT statistically significant. Comparing the #'s, it's a little < than half(45%) as many murders among the illegal immigrant population, and that's at a high point among the illegal immigrant population that is now half that. So now it's approximately 25% of the overall rate of murders.

Immigration needs to controlled, but crime amongst the illegal immigrant population is not a good argument, and should not be used as an argument for it to be controlled. Crime in this segment of the population is not a problem.

The only argument against it that is valid, is organized crime, because that is bad no matter what. But I doubt the organized crime is as large in that community, as it is in the overall community.
 
I can't wait to see this on fox news. I get tired of seeing trumpy anecdotal evidence. Even at one of it's high points it was 62 murders in one year by illegal immigrants. It has run at about half that amount for the past year and a half.(29 last year and 14 for the last 6 mo.) That is not statistically significant.

That's 62 people out of approximately 20M illegal immigrants at it's high point, compared to more than 21k in the rest of the population. NOT statistically significant. Comparing the #'s, it's a little < than half(45%) as many murders among the illegal immigrant population, and that's at a high point among the illegal immigrant population that is now half that. So now it's approximately 25% of the overall rate of murders.

Immigration needs to controlled, but crime amongst the illegal immigrant population is not a good argument, and should not be used as an argument for it to be controlled. Crime in this segment of the population is not a problem.

The only argument against it that is valid, is organized crime, because that is bad no matter what. But I doubt the organized crime is as large in that community, as it is in the overall community.
The murder and rape of a college student near campus or the murder/rape of a mother of 5 in the burbs is what gets the press. Same as a mass shooting in the burbs even though those incidents represent an extremely small percentage of gun violence in the U.S. They are both politicized for votes. No one cares about illegal running drugs and killing people on the southside of Chicago. Same for gang shootings there. They are useless to the politicians and their quest for power.

I found this story interesting as the bad guy somehow made it to Tulsa for purposes unknown and the TPD made the arrest.
 
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The murder and rape of a college student near campus or the murder/rape of a mother of 5 in the burbs is what gets the press. Same as a mass shooting in the burbs even though those incidents represent an extremely small percentage of gun violence in the U.S. They are both politicized for votes. No one cares about illegal running drugs and killing people on the southside of Chicago. Same for gang shootings there. They are useless to the politicians and their quest for power.

I found this story interesting as the bad guy somehow made it to Tulsa for purposes unknown and the TPD made the arrest.
I found it of interest for the same reason.

I just am sighing resolutely at how this will be lapped up on fox news. Not statistically relevant, but because it's a pretty white girl with children, it will have fox brethren seething mad at illegal immigrants. That's just stupid.
 
I found it of interest for the same reason.

I just am sighing resolutely at how this will be lapped up on fox news. Not statistically relevant, but because it's a pretty white girl with children, it will have fox brethren seething mad at illegal immigrants. That's just stupid.
You could say the same thing about CNN and MSNBC with a mass shooting in the burbs. 60 people can get shot over the 4th of July weekend in Chicago and it won’t be mentioned. 7 people shot in the burbs by a crazy white guy with a semi auto and those outlets will talk about it for weeks. Same concept just completely different sides. Both for the same reasons.
 
Meh, there isn’t a large enough data set to draw conclusions. Neither DHS nor the states maintain such data in that format. The only state that does is Texas and due to litigation its disorganized so the figures can’t be used to draw useful conclusions. However, those numbers, in one context, suggest a homicide rate lower than the general population. But not by much. Which makes sense. People are people regardless if they can register to vote. And people who don’t want to get deported are often more careful about getting caught than those who travel freely.

But it’s a mistake to say that their crime rate is lower. We simply don’t know. This is a common theme when common sense starts to drift into public policy debate. The first theme they roll out for the casual observer is that if there isn’t statistical evidence gathered by government workers, then the problem doesn’t exist. The bureaucracy counts everything that perpetuates their continued expansion. They can tell you how many TVs and Pampers they bought for asylum seekers, literally in granular detail. Not just the exact number but where. But they have no idea how many have been convicted of murder and will be turned loose next week. They don’t even know definitively that the person who checked in on their phone before coming is the person sitting in front of them. But they know they spent $931.35 per day on this person for the last 39 days, so off he goes.

So raise your antenna when pressure groups go to court to stop states from gathering evidence like this. Why is it worth millions in legal fees to them to stop a court from checking a box that the murderer is not lawfully present? Why do they sue to prevent prisons from deporting murderers when their sentence is done and they have a lawful order of removal? Why does ICE have to stake out police stations, for hours and days on end with multiple officers waiting for a convicted criminal to walk out because the cops can’t hold them pending ICE pick up? Because you could count that is one reason why, among many.

But back to the debate, the same studies that document that the murder rate amongst illegal aliens is lower than the population at large, didn’t exactly highlight the fact that it is twice the rate of legal immigrants. If you vet folks, if they have means to support themselves, if you verify they have a place to live and are authorized to work, BEFORE they enter, and you don’t have to scramble to try and give these things to them, then they are a lot less murdery.

Last point, CBP tracks the monthly rates of people they arrest at the border with deportable convictions and breaks that out by crime. Murder manslaughter etc was about 3 per year for decades. Until 2021. It’s been about 60 per year continuously since then. Thats just the ones they caught or turned themselves in trying to use asylum to con their way in and get better treatment. It doesn’t count the thousands that evade capture between ports of entry or don’t murder until they get to the interior.

The Biden immigration policy is a failure by any calculation.
 
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You could say the same thing about CNN and MSNBC with a mass shooting in the burbs. 60 people can get shot over the 4th of July weekend in Chicago and it won’t be mentioned. 7 people shot in the burbs by a crazy white guy with a semi auto and those outlets will talk about it for weeks. Same concept just completely different sides. Both for the same reasons.
I just ignore that crap, they've(Democrats) been going off about gun control for years and got nowhere with it. They(Trumplicans) did some henky crap the last time trump was in office, and then pulled back on it. This time I don't foresee them pulling back.
 
Meh, there isn’t a large enough data set to draw conclusions. Neither DHS nor the states maintain such data in that format. The only state that does is Texas and due to litigation its disorganized so the figures can’t be used to draw useful conclusions. However, those numbers, in one context, suggest a homicide rate lower than the general population. But not by much. Which makes sense. People are people regardless if they can register to vote. And people who don’t want to get deported are often more careful about getting caught than those who travel freely.

But it’s a mistake to say that their crime rate is lower. We simply don’t know. This is a common theme when common sense starts to drift into public policy debate. The first theme they roll out for the casual observer is that if there isn’t statistical evidence gathered by government workers, then the problem doesn’t exist. The bureaucracy counts everything that perpetuates their continued expansion. They can tell you how many TVs and Pampers they bought for asylum seekers, literally in granular detail. Not just the exact number but where. But they have no idea how many have been convicted of murder and will be turned loose next week. They don’t even know definitively that the person who checked in on their phone before coming is the person sitting in front of them. But they know they spent $931.35 per day on this person for the last 39 days, so off he goes.

So raise your antenna when pressure groups go to court to stop states from gathering evidence like this. Why is it worth millions in legal fees to them to stop a court from checking a box that the murderer is not lawfully present? Why do they sue to prevent prisons from deporting murderers when their sentence is done and they have a lawful order of removal? Why does ICE have to stake out police stations, for hours and days on end with multiple officers waiting for a convicted criminal to walk out because the cops can’t hold them pending ICE pick up? Because you could count that is one reason why, among many.

But back to the debate, the same studies that document that the murder rate amongst illegal aliens is lower than the population at large, didn’t exactly highlight the fact that it is twice the rate of legal immigrants. If you vet folks, if they have means to support themselves, if you verify they have a place to live and are authorized to work, BEFORE they enter, and you don’t have to scramble to try and give these things to them, then they are a lot less murdery.

Last point, CBP tracks the monthly rates of people they arrest at the border with deportable convictions and breaks that out by crime. Murder manslaughter etc was about 3 per year for decades. Until 2021. It’s been about 60 per year continuously since then. Thats just the ones they caught or turned themselves in trying to use asylum to con their way in and get better treatment. It doesn’t count the thousands that evade capture between ports of entry or don’t murder until they get to the interior.

The Biden immigration policy is a failure by any calculation.
There are respected economists who argue that the current immigration trend in the US is something that actually helped keep the country out of a recession.

I’m not arguing that every person coming in is a saint, nor am I disagreeing that there could be more criminals coming into the country…. But if the group as a whole is a benefit to society rather than a detriment, then why should I be against that?

Many historic immigrants who built this country’s canals, bridges, railroads, and skyscrapers came here running from past criminal episodes…. The Irish and their descendants even wrote songs about it…

My name is Seamus Ryan from a farm outside Lockray.
And I always intended to live there all my days.
But when I was young, just twenty one, in a drunken barroom fight,
I killed a man and away I ran; I was hunted day and night.

I sailed away, to Americay, to the sidewalks of New York.
So far away from Galway Bay, from Dublin and from Cork....
And I can't go back, for love or craic, to my native land again.
I'm a Yankee now, and that is how I'll stay 'til my life's end.

And now the name I gave myself to lead an exile's life.
And I never told another soul, and never took a wife.
I thumbed my way through the USA, I roamed from coast to coast.
So all alone, so far from home, I was called the Galway Ghost.

In Americay, I went astray, and battled men and law.
With gun and knife, I carved my life, it was my tragic flaw.
In Albany I tried to flee, the warden's on my trail.
But they captured me, they shackled me, they entombed me in this jail.

When I was young and on the run, from the life I left behind,
I'd rather drink than think the thoughts, that now prey on my mind,
Of the Galway sky and days gone by and the girl who loves me most,
So raise your glass to the haunted past of Seamus Ryan's ghost.
 
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