Joe Manchin

[TUMU]

I just listened to a Joe Manchin interview.
IMO, he's one of the most sensible politicians in America.
He said we need to act in the best interest of America, doesn't matter which party you vote or Independent.
He also said our debt is the biggest threat to America, more than any enemy of America. He said every man, woman and child in America owns $104,000 of debt.
He spoke about Tuesday evening.

 

[lawpoke87]

I just listened to a Joe Manchin interview.
IMO, he's one of the most sensible politicians in America.
He said we need to act in the best interest in America, doesn't matter which party you vote or Independent.
He also said our debt is the biggest threat to America, more than any enemy of America. He said every man, woman and child in America owns $104,000 of debt.
He spoke about Tuesday evening.

He not wrong about the debt. Just FYI…we have $7T in debt maturing over the next 6 months. Debt which is currently financed at rates much lower than the current borrowing costs. Debt service is about to get a lot more expensive.

 

[aTUfan]

replace the B, M, T with the cotrect number of zeros on all gov documents

so 12T becomes
$12,000,000,000,000,000.00

 

[astonmartin708]

I just listened to a Joe Manchin interview.
IMO, he's one of the most sensible politicians in America.
He said we need to act in the best interest of America, doesn't matter which party you vote or Independent.
He also said our debt is the biggest threat to America, more than any enemy of America. He said every man, woman and child in America owns $104,000 of debt.
He spoke about Tuesday evening.

And yet, he had no problem using public funds to artificially prop up industry in his state.

 

[TUMU]

And yet, he had no problem using public funds to artificially prop up industry in his state.

I don't know anything about that. Not saying it's not true.
What I have heard from him during interviews on several networks has been consistent and moderate. Not a bunch of left or right craziness.
I'm not big on political parties.
I don't know much about him. He's only caught my interest the past couple of years from interviews I have heard.

 

[astonmartin708]

I don't know anything about that. Not saying it's not true.
What I have heard from him during interviews on several networks has been consistent and moderate. Not a bunch of left or right craziness.
I'm not big on political parties.
I don't know much about him. He's only caught my interest the past couple of years from interviews I have heard.

He’s not really moderate. Almost every policy position he holds aligns with the conservative wing of politics.

Energy, Immigration, spending & economics, Healthcare, gun rights, abortion rights, tax reform for the wealthy, civil rights…

Honestly there are very few policy positions that he held that actually aligned with Democrats at all. The only things he ever did to align were voting for their federal appointees, support government spending to increase growth, and not balk at spending on renewables (but only as he horse traded renewable investment for tax credits to carbon capture (sequestration) which helped him personally as a coal business owner / investor….

Oh, and he voted to convict Trump which shouldn’t have been a partisan position at all given what happened in 2021.

 

[TUMU]

He's moderate to me.
Even after reading your comments, he has some moderate tendencies compared to most members of the Democrat and Republican elected politicians.
He's no Majorie Tayler Greene or AOC.

 

[lawpoke87]

He’s as moderate as they come in the Senate or Congress

 

[Gmoney4WW]

He's moderate to me.
Even after reading your comments, he has some moderate tendencies compared to most members of the Democrat and Republican elected politicians.
He's no Majorie Tayler Greene or AOC.

Good god, that that's what we have to measure him against today. Maybe Aston is possibly going with the old standards of measurement we had. Goetz, Taylor Green, Boebart, AOC, Omar etc. I agree with you, you have to be malleable and go with today's standards if you want to get back to those old standards. I think Manchin is a moderate Republican by today's standards, and is in the proper party now. I didn't really ever consider him a moderate Democrat. I considered him a very conservative Democrat.

 

[lawpoke87]

Good god, that that's what we have to measure him against today. Maybe Aston is possibly going with the old standards of measurement we had Goetz, Taylor Green, Boebart, AOC, Omar etc. I agree with you, you have to be malleable and go with today's standards if you want to get back to those old standards. I think Manchin is a moderate Republican by today's standards, and is in the proper party now. I didn't really ever consider him a moderate Democrat. I considered him a very conservative Democrat.

Very few moderates left in either party….unfortunately

 

[astonmartin708]

He’s as moderate as they come in the Senate or Congress

I would argue that Tester from Montana was truly more centrist.... and ultimately it didn't help him.

 

[lawpoke87]

I would argue that Tester from Montana was truly more centrist.... and ultimately it didn't help him.

He held on as a Dem for 18 years in a very conservative state by being a moderate Dem. I would say he fared quite well considering.

 

[TULSARISING]

He held on as a Dem for 18 years in a very conservative state by being a moderate Dem. I would say he fared quite well considering.

Very few of these kind of democrats left

 

[drboobay]

I have always liked Manchin.

My kind of politician. GT Bynum is right there too.

If they are not moderate I don't know how to define it.

Today's politics sickens me.

 

[astonmartin708]

View embedded media

Very few of these kind of democrats left

Very few Republicans with a spine left....

Murkowski and Collins are obviously there, but the amount of times they've been "extremely concerned" without actually doing anything about it is ridiculous.

McCain is gone. The republican party has targeted those willing to even entertain a disagreement with Trump, like Liz Cheney.

There are more centrist Dems coming to the table these days than there are centrist Pubs, and that might be part of the party's problem.

 

[astonmartin708]

I’ll bite….who are the centrist Dems in the Senate?

• 12 Dem Senators just voted for the Laken Riley Act.
  • Masto (NV)
  • Fetterman (PA)
  • Gallego (AZ)
  • Hassan (NH)
  • Kelly (AZ)
  • Ossof (GA)
  • Peters (MI)
  • Rosen (NV)
  • Shaheen (NH)
  • Slotkin (MI)
  • Warner (VA)
  • Warnock (GA)
• 11 Signed a letter expressing their desire to work with Republicans upon the next round of tax proposals to reduce the deficit.
  • Raphael Warnock (Ga.),
  • Tim Kaine (Va.),
  • John Hickenlooper (Colo.),
  • Mark Kelly (Ariz.),
  • Gary Peters (Mich.),
  • Jacky Rosen (Nev.),
  • Ruben Gallego (Ariz.),
  • Elissa Slotkin (Mich.)
  • Jon Ossoff (Ga.).
• You previously had Tester, Manchin, Sinema. You would have probably had more moderate Dems had they not been defeated by staunch conservatives in races in the last few cycles. I think the problem isn't so much that moderate Dems don't exist.... it's that states keep not electing them in favor dyed in the wool conservatives.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

• 12 Dem Senators just voted for the Laken Riley Act.
  • Masto (NV)
  • Fetterman (PA)
  • Gallego (AZ)
  • Hassan (NH)
  • Kelly (AZ)
  • Ossof (GA)
  • Peters (MI)
  • Rosen (NV)
  • Shaheen (NH)
  • Slotkin (MI)
  • Warner (VA)
  • Warnock (GA)
• 11 Signed a letter expressing their desire to work with Republicans upon the next round of tax proposals to reduce the deficit.
  • Raphael Warnock (Ga.),
  • Tim Kaine (Va.),
  • John Hickenlooper (Colo.),
  • Mark Kelly (Ariz.),
  • Gary Peters (Mich.),
  • Jacky Rosen (Nev.),
  • Ruben Gallego (Ariz.),
  • Elissa Slotkin (Mich.)
  • Jon Ossoff (Ga.).
• You previously had Tester, Manchin, Sinema. You would have probably had more moderate Dems had they not been defeated by staunch conservatives in races in the last few cycles. I think the problem isn't so much that moderate Dems don't exist.... it's that states keep not electing them in favor dyed in the wool conservatives.

You consider Warnock a moderate? You definitely are using modern comparisons with him. Just because they want to work with Republicans just means they are desperate to have a voice, not that they are moderate.

Murkowski and Collins are obviously there, but the amount of times they've been "extremely concerned" without actually doing anything about it is ridiculous.

Murkowski and Collins may not have a choice if they want to have any kind of a voice.

 

[astonmartin708]

You consider Warnock a moderate? You definitely are using modern comparisons with him. Just because they want to work with Republicans just means they are desperate to have a voice, not that they are moderate.


Murkowski and Collins may not have a choice if they want to have any kind of a voice.

Warnock is a blue politician in a red state. His votes are going to be closer to the middle because his constituency wants him to be closer to the middle. Same with several of the others. I do agree that some of those names aren't particularly "moderate" but that is a good list of people willing to reach across the aisle. Murkowski and Collins are useless, but they are essentially the corollary to the list I mentioned. Republicans in blue-ish or independently minded states. Grassley is somewhat of another, though he's ancient and not vary outgoing these days.

By the way... "moderate" does not mean "conservative that also is okay with Gay Marriage / pro-choice"... that's why I have a problem calling Manchin a moderate. He was a conservative Democrat in the same way the Byrd was a conservative Democrat before him.

 

[TULSARISING]

Very few Republicans with a spine left....

Murkowski and Collins are obviously there, but the amount of times they've been "extremely concerned" without actually doing anything about it is ridiculous.

McCain is gone. The republican party has targeted those willing to even entertain a disagreement with Trump, like Liz Cheney.

There are more centrist Dems coming to the table these days than there are centrist Pubs, and that might be part of the party's problem.

I agree with the few republicans with a spine left as well, I’m not a republican, just because I don’t support todays Democratic Party does not mean I am a republican, I will quote what Gmoney tells ol Heff on the sports board , and that is not everything is black and white these days

 

[drboobay]

I agree with the few republicans with a spine left as well, I’m not a republican, just because I don’t support todays Democratic Party does not mean I am a republican, I will quote what Gmoney tells ol Heff on the sports board , and that is not everything is black and white these days

They never were black and white.

 

[TULSARISING]

They never were black and white.

This probably deserves its own thread , but One thing I have really learned the last couple of years with my mom passing away is how screwed up our health system really is ( and how much I respect healthcare workers more than ever now because of how great they took care of my mother ) how screwed up is it that so many people die because they can’t afford life saving treatment ? I probably lean more towards democrats with that , I know there probably isn’t a 100 percent right way to fix it , but you shouldn’t be bankrupt because you end up with cancer or have a heart attack , etc

 

[drboobay]

This probably deserves its own thread , but One thing I have really learned the last couple of years with my mom passing away is how screwed up our health system really is ( and how much I respect healthcare workers more than ever now because of how great they took care of my mother ) how screwed up is it that so many people die because they can’t afford life saving treatment ? I probably lean more towards democrats with that , I know there probably isn’t a 100 percent right way to fix it , but you shouldn’t be bankrupt because you end up with cancer or have a heart attack , etc

So much to say here! We have had discussions here before on it.

 

[TULSARISING]

So much to say here! We have had discussions here before on it.

I will get fired up talking about it lol

 

[aTUfan]

He’s as moderate as they come in the Senate or Congress

how did that work out for Cristan Senima?

 

[astonmartin708]

This probably deserves its own thread , but One thing I have really learned the last couple of years with my mom passing away is how screwed up our health system really is ( and how much I respect healthcare workers more than ever now because of how great they took care of my mother ) how screwed up is it that so many people die because they can’t afford life saving treatment ? I probably lean more towards democrats with that , I know there probably isn’t a 100 percent right way to fix it , but you shouldn’t be bankrupt because you end up with cancer or have a heart attack , etc

I'm sorry to hear about your mom. I agree, having had several similar experiences, that the healthcare system is in dire need of an overhaul.