It's not quite an aircraft carrier, but.....
- Thread starter noble cane
- Start date
Why is there a huge drawing of Jack Sparrow on that concrete wall?
I agree with Obama's view that this is the right moment to attempt an effect for the better in Cuba. I'm waiting to hear massive disagreement. His placement in that image was a major faux pas on his administrations part though.
"Take all you can, give nothing back." Jack Sparrow
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2016/03/20/dozens-of-cubans-arrested-amid-obamas-arrival/
Wives of political prisoners beaten and arrested prior to priceps' arrival in the socialist paradise
Wives of political prisoners beaten and arrested prior to priceps' arrival in the socialist paradise
....impossible. Castro said in his remarks in front of Obama that Cuba has no political prisoners.
I doubt it was a mistake... I imagine that Obama is truly flattered to have Che Guevara looking over his shoulder... All the kids wearing Che hats and t shirts will call him cool.
To be fair, it's not like Batista was any better than what they have now. A totalitarian dictator that's controlled by the Mob is somehow better than the crap they have now? I just see Cuba as a perpetual-show.
Tell me again, when did Batista bring Russian missiles to within 90 miles of our shore and cause a nuclear threat that almost caused World War III.
I get your point. But the cold war has been over for 20+ years now, and the cuban missle crisis was what, 60 years ago? We opened relations with Vietnam sooner than Cuba even though we actually were at war with them for more than a decade and they actually killed thousands upon thousands of US citizens.
Being bitter about Cuba is just dumb. Castro is on his death bed.
That's why the American hotel chains now licensed to operate there are Chinese owned?
Raul is going strong.
I agree being bitter with Cuba is dumb. But making deals without securing legitimate gains in democratic reforms, basic human rights, and political incarceration is dumber.
Raul looked pretty healthy when he grabbed Obama's arm.
The Cuban missile was about 52 or 53 years ago. Grenada was later. They messed around in Central America quite a bit later than that. Yes, I remember Vietnam, I used to chill with my buds on the Cambodian border. But even Uncle Ho didn't bring nuclear weapons to near Florida. Fortunately, Russia blinked first.
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I agree with you there. I would like to see more in this area, but I don't think Cuba was going to agree to anything unless the embargo was lifted.
Since Fidel and the Bay of Pigs attempted invasion, 50+ years of US policy has gotten us nowhere. Remember the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?
China is coming into Cuba and doing more and more business; does Taiwan ring a bell? US companies and even former pissed off Miami Cubanos are all pushing to open up business opportunities that they see China, Korea, Spain getting in on.
If one cared about Cubans suffering, think about the effects on the Cubans of being totally cut off from international credit and isolated in trade which has made it hugely expensive to buy foreign medical equipment, agricultural machinery, food, and infrastructure. It's an incredibly poor country; that much has worked but it takes its toll on the people, not Raoul.
If you don't like the Castros consider what led to their taking power: horrible income inequality and the concentration of wealth at the very top supporting a system of government corrupted by too much money. It should be a cautionary tale given the current trends in America. Are Trump and Bernie the forms that general anger takes against wealth and corruption in the US?
China is coming into Cuba and doing more and more business; does Taiwan ring a bell? US companies and even former pissed off Miami Cubanos are all pushing to open up business opportunities that they see China, Korea, Spain getting in on.
If one cared about Cubans suffering, think about the effects on the Cubans of being totally cut off from international credit and isolated in trade which has made it hugely expensive to buy foreign medical equipment, agricultural machinery, food, and infrastructure. It's an incredibly poor country; that much has worked but it takes its toll on the people, not Raoul.
If you don't like the Castros consider what led to their taking power: horrible income inequality and the concentration of wealth at the very top supporting a system of government corrupted by too much money. It should be a cautionary tale given the current trends in America. Are Trump and Bernie the forms that general anger takes against wealth and corruption in the US?
To be honest, the Cuban Missile Crisis was probably (at least partially) our fault. We embargoed them after the communist revolution. Then we sponsored a massive counter-revolution at the Bay of Pigs. That gave them the excuse to go to the USSR and ask that the missiles be placed there.
The US has always had problems in Cuba. That's what started the Spanish American war in 1898. We want to use them as a shield and they don't like that. They never have. It's probably better to have a least a cordial relationship that gives them a reason to deal with us rather than betray us with our enemies. I'd rather they be on our side than Russia or China's.
Another case of keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
I think of myself as a moderate actually.
I guess you could say, where we really were at fault was that the Bay of Pigs failed. If it had worked this discussion wouldn't be happening. But, when it did fail it meant something like the Missile Crisis was on the horizon for sure. Luckily that situation was concluded without a catastrophe. But, since then the embargo hasn't done anything to help the people of Cuba. In fact, it's probably hurt them.
Reagan's Secretary of State has said it should be repealed. The UN has said it should be repealed. The majority of the population has (via polling) said it should be repealed. It's just not something that's advantageous for either country. The US economy loses something like a billion dollars due to it, and what do we get?
Something we both can agree on. They won't change unless we lift the embargo and we won't lift the embargo unless they change.
It's called a Mexican stand-off. I don't know what it's called in Mexico.
I am in agreement on this. Time to put the first foot in and see if they will even half ass do the Hokey Pokey with us. In this situation investment might impower the people. Greed might influence the government to 'shake it all about' and come in accord on less human rights violations. It's time to try something new with them. We certainly don't want Cuba to be a haven for terrorists.
Ah..I see.. It's like the deal with Iran.... We give them back their money, remove the embargo, and get a promise from a rogue state that they won't make a bomb....
Pretty much. Monitor them closely and if they fall out of line, reimpose the sanctions.
It's kind of like taking away your teen's cellphone. Yes, they deserved to have it taken away, but eventually... them not having it might become impractical to both you and them. At some point you have to say... okay I'll give it back. But I'm keeping my eye on you.
My teen doesn't have a cell phone.
I made it through my teens without one.. So will he.
My grandpa used to say the same thing about air conditioning. I'd still rather have it lol.
