Happy End of Democracy Day

[astonmartin708]

1) There are many poor female athletes who rely on athletics as a path to a college degree. Shame on you for attempting to turn back the strides females have made in athletics. Title9 be damned apparently

2) A below average male collegiate swimmer is an elite female college swimmer. Times are times in swimming. Pretty easy to compare.

Females competing in soccer against males from the age of 14-15 and up are certainly at a significantly higher risk of serious bodily injury. The differences in size, speed, strength are immense. Other contact sports would be the same.

Paths to college shouldn’t rely on title 9, at all. It’s your political party complaining about merit. College is about academics. I would personally get rid of title 9 and moreover athletic scholarships in general at non-profit institutions, especially in the age of NIL. There’s no reason to waste ladies time having to play sports, attend practices, travel and miss classes just so they can go to school. Just give them an academic scholarship and let them go to school. Those who want to play a sport should be able to, but it shouldn’t be the only condition available to them for an education.

You said women were at risk of getting hurt. You can’t get hurt by a swimmer in another lane. Most Olympic collegiate sports for women are non contact. Even the contact sports could see smaller males who couldn’t compete with the Lebron James or Travis Kelce’s of the world play. Why are short Asian men not typically able to play collegiate sports ? They couldn’t play the highest caliber men, but they might compete against high caliber women.

Females competing with SOME males in a few sports are at risk of injury. Many males are not much bigger than females….

Did you know that the TU women’s team under Mossman use to recruit smaller male students who had played in high school for the team to scrimmage against? No one cared.

 

[lawpoke87]

Paths to college shouldn’t rely on title 9, at all. It’s your political party complaining about merit. College is about academics. I would personally get rid of title 9 and moreover athletic scholarships in general at non-profit institutions, especially in the age of NIL. There’s no reason to waste ladies time having to play sports, attend practices, travel and miss classes just so they can go to school. Just give them an academic scholarship and let them go to school. Those who want to play a sport should be able to, but it shouldn’t be the only condition available to them for an education.

You said women were at risk of getting hurt. You can’t get hurt by a swimmer in another lane. Most Olympic collegiate sports for women are non contact. Even the contact sports could see smaller males who couldn’t compete with the Lebron James or Travis Kelce’s of the world play. Why are short Asian men not typically able to play collegiate sports ? They couldn’t play the highest caliber men, but they might compete against high caliber women.

Females competing with SOME males in a few sports are at risk of injury. Many males are not much bigger than females….

Did you know that the TU women’s team under Mossman use to recruit smaller male students who had played in high school for the team to scrimmage against? No one cared.

I never said female swimmers were at a greater risk of being injured competing against male athletes. Quit misstating my remarks.

I did say a low level male collegiate swimmer is an elite female swimmer. This is not subjective. Times are times.

I also stated high level female soccer players after a certain age are at a much higher risk for serious injury competing against high level male players due to disadvantages in size, speed, strength, physicality, etc… Not much debating this either for anyone who has a ounce of knowledge about the sport.

Most of us simply want some restrictions put in place. We just had a male collegiate athlete who took some hormones and in 18 months was allowed to compete as a female with predictable results. More troublesome was the number of people who supported such an action and result. If this precedent is followed and expanded, women sports would be in serious jeopardy.

 

[TU_BLA]

let science(DNA) prevail.

MAGAts don't believe in science. You can't pick and choose what to believe because it defends your position and then deny scientific study and outcomes in other areas because it doesn't back your given biases.

And by the way, and this might blow your mind, there are plenty of individuals in the world where their genotype and phenotype don't match what you'd expect to see. Genetics is pretty complex and I don't expect you to understand that things go wrong all the time in meiosis, fertilization, gene transcription and protein synthesis and thus the expression of genes is sometimes incomplete.

 

[TU_BLA]

Paths to college shouldn’t rely on title 9, at all. It’s your political party complaining about merit. College is about academics. I would personally get rid of title 9 and moreover athletic scholarships in general at non-profit institutions, especially in the age of NIL. There’s no reason to waste ladies time having to play sports, attend practices, travel and miss classes just so they can go to school. Just give them an academic scholarship and let them go to school. Those who want to play a sport should be able to, but it shouldn’t be the only condition available to them for an education.

You said women were at risk of getting hurt. You can’t get hurt by a swimmer in another lane. Most Olympic collegiate sports for women are non contact. Even the contact sports could see smaller males who couldn’t compete with the Lebron James or Travis Kelce’s of the world play. Why are short Asian men not typically able to play collegiate sports ? They couldn’t play the highest caliber men, but they might compete against high caliber women.

Females competing with SOME males in a few sports are at risk of injury. Many males are not much bigger than females….

Did you know that the TU women’s team under Mossman use to recruit smaller male students who had played in high school for the team to scrimmage against? No one cared.

Your argument is losing me, it's just all over the place. And please if you don't truly understand Title IX, then stop using it as a scapegoat for whatever you're trying to argue. Title IX isn't only about athletics and unfortunately 75% of individuals only know about it because of its implication in college athletics and not the fact that it actually protects women and their right to seek an education free from bias or prejudice or feeling threatened.

 

[lawpoke87]

MAGAts don't believe in science. You can't pick and choose what to believe because it defends your position and then deny scientific study and outcomes in other areas because it doesn't back your given biases.

And by the way, and this might blow your mind, there are plenty of individuals in the world where their genotype and phenotype don't match what you'd expect to see. Genetics is pretty complex and I don't expect you to understand that things go wrong all the time in meiosis, fertilization, gene transcription and protein synthesis and thus the expression of genes is sometimes incomplete.

Case in point on how complicated these situations can get…. Baby is born with both male and female genitalia. The child is medically raised as a male given testosterone through puberty. The kid reaches a point where he/she decides to play soccer on the girls side. Changes her name, reclassifies, etc… remember genetically there isn’t a true determination of gender. From a physical standpoint, this player looks and moves like a male. Should this player now be allowed to compete as a female after benefiting from testosterone injections growing up? The player is a really nice kid and great teammate btw.

 

[aTUfan]

MAGAts don't believe in science. You can't pick and choose what to believe because it defends your position and then deny scientific study and outcomes in other areas because it doesn't back your given biases.

And by the way, and this might blow your mind, there are plenty of individuals in the world where their genotype and phenotype don't match what you'd expect to see. Genetics is pretty complex and I don't expect you to understand that things go wrong all the time in meiosis, fertilization, gene transcription and protein synthesis and thus the expression of genes is sometimes incomplete.

DNA: male or female.

 

[TU_BLA]

DNA: male or female.

Right but bozos like you don't matter what's on the inside. The DNA makeup (genotype, I know it's a big word but you can look it up) doesn't match the phenotype. XX genotype says female, but this individual has a penis (phenotype male). Sorry that you can't comprehend that this actually happens because things occur in nature that are out of the ordinary.

Again, you can't holler about believing in the science of DNA and genetics and having it be the be all and end all of your argument, and then in the same breath denying vaccine efficacy because RFK, Jr and his brain worm told you it was dangerous (without any actual scientific research studies backing said claim). Or that climate change is not real because oil companies and Republicans who make their money in oil and gas told you not to believe it so they can continue to poison the planet for profit. Or that the leading cause of death among children in the US is gun violence just so you can go and buy a small arsenal of guns to prove your manhood.

 

[TU_BLA]

Case in point on how complicated these situations can get…. Baby is born with both male and female genitalia. The child is medically raised as a male given testosterone through puberty. The kid reaches a point where he/she decides to play soccer on the girls side. Changes her name, reclassifies, etc… remember genetically there isn’t a true determination of gender. From a physical standpoint, this player looks and moves like a male. Should this player now be allowed to compete as a female after benefiting from testosterone injections growing up? The player is a really nice kid and great teammate btw.

Again, I don't know all the answers to the ethical questions on this. And I honestly don't know how I'd personally feel if it happened in a competition one of my kids was part of.

 

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

I think the "agendas" are run by ignoramuses trying to be held as discriminatory or wanting to be viewed that way. It is ridiculous.

We continue to be such a tiny, small sliver of society. It is ridiculous. I guess this is good for the coffee shop and message boards.

If you have a hot dog between your legs, it is straightforward. You play with the boys. Otherwise, play with the girls.

Trust me, I am all about being able to wear a dress, take hormones and understand gender vs sex. Those are different things. I don't know why this is hard to understand, either. Gender is a social construct. Sex is biological. Sex gives you different hormones. Men are more physical. Wahhhhh. I also don't think we should be giving kids hormone injections before 18 or chopping hot dogs off before then, either. Just treat them as humans and move on. Those are life-altering decisions that should not be made by the parent but by the child when they are old enough to understand, possibly even at 21. They don't need to be made at 13.

Fox and idiots are interviewing the crazies of crazy left-wing people and acting like it is everywhere. So now, rural communities, such as Russian State TV, Putin, and Victor Orbiin (they talk about it in speeches and interviews, but I am not joking), are convinced it is happening everywhere in America. Ya'll be nuts.

Title IX has been a good thing for society. It isn't like men have been hurt. Coaches are getting paid 10s of millions. Now, male athletes are getting paid millions in college. Male athletes are getting paid 100s of millions in contracts. Trust me, whiney ass, you are alright.

 

[lawpoke87]

Again, I don't know all the answers to the ethical questions on this. And I honestly don't know how I'd personally feel if it happened in a competition one of my kids was part of.

My daughter competes against this player at least twice a year and I’m still not sure how I feel about it. Just a complex issue

 

[TU_BLA]

My daughter competes against this player at least twice a year and I’m still not sure how I feel about it. Just a complex issue

And you're in a better position to understand and have an opinion. I have a hard time taking a side on mere hypotheticals because there isn't an emotional investment into a hypothetical situation...

I am curious as to how parents and opponents found out about this individual.

 

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

My daughter competes against this player at least twice a year and I’m still not sure how I feel about it. Just a complex issue

As a father of a daughter that

Case in point on how complicated these situations can get…. Baby is born with both male and female genitalia. The child is medically raised as a male given testosterone through puberty. The kid reaches a point where he/she decides to play soccer on the girls side. Changes her name, reclassifies, etc… remember genetically there isn’t a true determination of gender. From a physical standpoint, this player looks and moves like a male. Should this player now be allowed to compete as a female after benefiting from testosterone injections growing up? The player is a really nice kid and great teammate btw.

I would say no, unfortunately. Sounds like a slightly complicated issue. I also think this is a one-off just me, though, so I will not get bent out of shape.

But call me back to 13 years, when my daughter is 15 and competing in ECNL against someone such as this, and I am much older and angrier. These genetic mismatches will be everywhere because of these COVID-19 vaccines and the lack of fluoride in the water.

 

[astonmartin708]

Your argument is losing me, it's just all over the place. And please if you don't truly understand Title IX, then stop using it as a scapegoat for whatever you're trying to argue. Title IX isn't only about athletics and unfortunately 75% of individuals only know about it because of its implication in college athletics and not the fact that it actually protects women and their right to seek an education free from bias or prejudice or feeling threatened.

What I’m saying is that the athletics aspect of title 9 has promoted athletics over academics. Kids (girls) from the inner city should not be pushed towards athletics and have their academic options in college limited because of the investment necessary in athletics in terms of time.

 

[aTUfan]

does a guy on girls team count as a male or female under title IX?

 

[aTUfan]

Right but bozos like you don't matter what's on the inside. The DNA makeup (genotype, I know it's a big word but you can look it up) doesn't match the phenotype. XX genotype says female, but this individual has a penis (phenotype male). Sorry that you can't comprehend that this actually happens because things occur in nature that are out of the ordinary.

Again, you can't holler about believing in the science of DNA and genetics and having it be the be all and end all of your argument, and then in the same breath denying vaccine efficacy because RFK, Jr and his brain worm told you it was dangerous (without any actual scientific research studies backing said claim). Or that climate change is not real because oil companies and Republicans who make their money in oil and gas told you not to believe it so they can continue to poison the planet for profit. Or that the leading cause of death among children in the US is gun violence just so you can go and buy a small arsenal of guns to prove your manhood.

nice rant

 

[astonmartin708]

does a guy on girls team count as a male or female under title IX?

What mixed doubles in Tennis? How does that count?

 

[aTUfan]

What mixed doubles in Tennis? How does that count?

you never answer a question, you just give a dumb ass response.

 

[astonmartin708]

you never answer a question, you just give a dumb ass response.

Wait a minute I thought you hated DEI. Title 9 is the original DEI.


Or is it just that you hate when inclusion means brown people rather than females?

Are you trying to tell me that a women’s rower from an athletics program that is a money sink has more merit than a men’s basketball player?

 

[astonmartin708]

Nothing screams “a commitment to democracy and the freedom of speech” like trying to deport non-violent protestors (student aliens) who disagree with the prolonged killing of children.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-cancel-student-visas-all-hamas-sympathizers-white-house-2025-01-29/

Doing something like this during a time where the US was not actually involved in any combat seems like something a dictator would do… and even if the US had been involved in combat it would still be close to some of the most hated laws in history the Alien and Sedition Acts and the Sedition Act of 1918.

Even more ironic is that a big reason Trump won was because of these people and their friends causing dissension in the Democratic Party about Biden’s kid-glove handling of Israel. A real “Leopards Ate My Face” moment. Same thing goes for the poor people who complained about inflation and had it replaced with inflation and Tarrifs, and the immigrants who switched sides only to lose birthright citizenship.

 

[lawpoke87]

Nothing screams “a commitment to democracy and the freedom of speech” like trying to deport non-violent protestors (student aliens) who are openly supporting a terrorist organization and holding Americans hostages and have a clear and stated goal of destroying the U.S.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-cancel-student-visas-all-hamas-sympathizers-white-house-2025-01-29/

FIFY. That said, unless we can show a non-citizen is inciting or planning violence by supporting a terrorist organization they should be able to say whatever they want.

Shall I point out your hypocrisy by screaming freedom of speech after your consistent support of the federal government violating our first amendment rights over the past four years?

 

[lawpoke87]

Aston…congrats on being part of the 22%

 

[astonmartin708]

FIFY. That said, unless we can show a non-citizen is inciting or planning violence by supporting a terrorist organization they should be able to say whatever they want.

Shall I point out your hypocrisy by screaming freedom of speech after your consistent support of the federal government violating our first amendment rights over the past four years?

Shall I point out your hypocrisy while screaming about Dems not caring about freedom of speech and then ignoring your favorite dictator (after day 1) doing the same?

P.S. criticizing Israel is not the same as supporting a terrorist organization. Both sides can be wrong (and most of the time they are)

 

[astonmartin708]

Aston…congrats on being part of the 22%

View embedded media

I’m happy with my decisions. I would agree that about 80% of men are dumber than I am…. So that tracks…

Also, wrong thread. This thread is reserved for acts of tyranny by the Cheeto bandito.

 

[lawpoke87]

Shall I point out your hypocrisy while screaming about Dems not caring about freedom of speech and then ignoring your favorite dictator (after day 1) doing the same?

P.S. criticizing Israel is not the same as supporting a terrorist organization. Both sides can be wrong (and most of the time they are)

Can you not read? My exact words:

“That said, unless we can show a non-citizen is inciting or planning violence by supporting a terrorist organization they should be able to say whatever they want.”

I assume those words would be clear even to someone who’s as partisan as yourself.

Serious question….your responses have been all over the place of late and often borderline incoherent (this one for example). Earlier statements re succession as another. Are you that upset with Trump or something else going on?

 

[astonmartin708]

Can you not read? My exact words:

“That said, unless we can show a non-citizen is inciting or planning violence by supporting a terrorist organization they should be able to say whatever they want.”

I assume those words would be clear even to someone who’s as partisan as yourself.

Serious question….your responses have been all over the place of late and often borderline incoherent (this one for example). Earlier statements re succession as another. Are you that upset with Trump or something else going on?

Just busy.... so much concerning news coming these days, it's hard to focus on any one thing.

Meanwhile Trump breaking records..... it took Adolf a whole two months after taking office to authorize his first concentration camps....

Trump order to turn Guantánamo Bay into migrant detention center prompts outcry – live

US president signs executive order to use camp to detain deportees, sparking concerns and condemnation

www.theguardian.com

 

[lawpoke87]

Just busy.... so much concerning news coming these days, it's hard to focus on any one thing.

Meanwhile Trump breaking records..... it took Adolf a whole two months after taking office to authorize his first concentration camps....

Trump order to turn Guantánamo Bay into migrant detention center prompts outcry – live

US president signs executive order to use camp to detain deportees, sparking concerns and condemnation

www.theguardian.com

You don’t appear to be focusing on anything
😂😂😂😂

Looks like you may finally get the Cuban vacation you’ve talked about

 

[astonmartin708]

You don’t appear to be focusing on anything
😂😂😂😂

Looks like you may finally get the Cuban vacation you’ve talked about

What's that phrase that the 2nd amendment folks used to love to put on T shirts? Molon Labe?

 

[lawpoke87]

What's that phrase that the 2nd amendment folks used to love to put on T shirts? Molon Labe?

I’m probably one of the few males who has lived in Oklahoma all their life who has never owned or even shot a gun. My ten year old is dying to learn how to hunt though. Trying to convince him taking pictures of the animals is just as much fun. Not having much success

 

[noble cane]

I’m probably one of the few males who has lived in Oklahoma all their life who has never owned or even shot a gun

I would invite you to the range, but, i lost all of mine in a tragic boating accident.

 

[astonmartin708]

I would invite you to the range, but, i lost all of mine in a tragic boating accident.

Is this you?

 

[TU_BLA]

Shall I point out your hypocrisy while screaming about Dems not caring about freedom of speech and then ignoring your favorite dictator (after day 1) doing the same?

P.S. criticizing Israel is not the same as supporting a terrorist organization. Both sides can be wrong (and most of the time they are)

You can support Israel and it's right to exist as a nation BUT also criticize some of their tactics in trying to root out Hamas and Hezbollah and whatever other terrorist groups are operating in the area because you don't believe 10 civilian casualties to every 1 terrorist killed is an acceptable method. On top of that, allowing Israel to continue using those tactics puts a target on the US because it's US supplied weapons being used to kill said civilians.

And the whole "free speech" thing is BS. Allowing oligarchs the ability to push untrue propaganda in the name of government is garbage. Hate speech is also not protected under the 1st Amendment. SCOTUS ruled on that a long time ago. And if you really think it is protected, wait until some white dude kills a black dude and uses a free speech defense. And the free speech argument right now is a good for me not for thee thing. Trump and Musk believe they can say whatever the hell they want with no consequences but the second someone calls them a Nazi or unfit or uses their own words/actions against them, they threaten to sue. In OK, Ryan Walters is about to find out you just can't accuse people of things that are not true. Lawpoke you should be familiar with this since it's in Bixby.

 

[lawpoke87]

You can support Israel and it's right to exist as a nation BUT also criticize some of their tactics in trying to root out Hamas and Hezbollah and whatever other terrorist groups are operating in the area because you don't believe 10 civilian casualties to every 1 terrorist killed is an acceptable method. On top of that, allowing Israel to continue using those tactics puts a target on the US because it's US supplied weapons being used to kill said civilians.

And the whole "free speech" thing is BS. Allowing oligarchs the ability to push untrue propaganda in the name of government is garbage. Hate speech is also not protected under the 1st Amendment. SCOTUS ruled on that a long time ago. And if you really think it is protected, wait until some white dude kills a black dude and uses a free speech defense. And the free speech argument right now is a good for me not for thee thing. Trump and Musk believe they can say whatever the hell they want with no consequences but the second someone calls them a Nazi or unfit or uses their own words/actions against them, they threaten to sue. In OK, Ryan Walters is about to find out you just can't accuse people of things that are not true. Lawpoke you should be familiar with this since it's in Bixby.

I’ve said it a thousand times. You have the right to say just about anything you want (subject to a few limitations). The right to say something doesn’t protect you from consequences resulting from that speech. We have seen media outlets over the past few years sued and paying out large settlements for speech. Walter’s is about to discover those consequences as well.

The basic tenant of free speech is the protection of a country’s citizens from oppression at the hands of those in charge. History shows us time and time again the importance of dissenting voices and the results when authoritative regimes silence those critical voices. We’ve seen it first hand these past few years. The number of partisan extremist who forget history and now support censorship of speech based on solely on their political leanings is troublesome. That is censorship at its worst and most dangerous.

I do see a difference between private citizens censoring speech opposed to actors for those in charge (government). Any censorship or silencing of speech by the government actors must be viewed under strict scrutiny…which is the standard.

Now will those who supported censorship under the Biden Admin now support the same under Trump?

 

[TU_BLA]

I do see a difference between private citizens censoring speech opposed to actors for those in charge (government). Any censorship or silencing of speech by the government actors must be viewed under strict scrutiny…which is the standard.

So first, please elaborate on the censorship under Biden.

Most of all of this comes from the tech oligarchs now caving to Trump and being used to spread his propaganda BS. FB used to have high standards regarding hate speech and misinformation (which really should be termed disinformation...misinformation implies a mistake, disinformation, IMO, is an intentionality to mislead). Now, at Trump and Musk's urging, they've removed that but there are subtle hints Meta is trying to suppress voices on the opposite side. Such as elimination of anything with the word Democrat in it on IG...there are others, also presumably under the thumb of Musk. Musk and Trump know that probably 50% of the GOP base can't distinguish truth from BS because they read at a 6th grade level or lower (this is an actual stat for the US in general). They know if they flood the place with disinformation they can sneak the things that will adversely affect their base through without them batting an eye.

Seriously, I don't know how people continue to vote for Republicans, especially Trump, right now. I know the good Christian line is to vote GOP for family values, which from my viewpoint is farcical. And if people are still voting GOP on the single issue of abortion...well that seems like people are willing to cut off their own hands to make sure their big toe remains intact. The recent proposed Trump tax cut will presumably harm almost everyone on this board. I know in my case, it will raise my tax obligation to the federal government by $1800/yr...and possibly more because they also want to do away with the mortgage interest tax credit, and one thing I keep hearing is adding a tax to scholarship moneys received by students. That would put my son, a FT student, in a tax bracket similar to me. How are any of these things making life better for average Americans, you know, the middle 70% of Americans? And people will be like "We didn't know he'd try to cut Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security, VA benefits, etc. We ****ing told you...hell Trump and Project 2025 told you.

 

[lawpoke87]

So first, please elaborate on the censorship under Biden.

Most of all of this comes from the tech oligarchs now caving to Trump and being used to spread his propaganda BS. FB used to have high standards regarding hate speech and misinformation (which really should be termed disinformation...misinformation implies a mistake, disinformation, IMO, is an intentionality to mislead). Now, at Trump and Musk's urging, they've removed that but there are subtle hints Meta is trying to suppress voices on the opposite side. Such as elimination of anything with the word Democrat in it on IG...there are others, also presumably under the thumb of Musk. Musk and Trump know that probably 50% of the GOP base can't distinguish truth from BS because they read at a 6th grade level or lower (this is an actual stat for the US in general). They know if they flood the place with disinformation they can sneak the things that will adversely affect their base through without them batting an eye.

Seriously, I don't know how people continue to vote for Republicans, especially Trump, right now. I know the good Christian line is to vote GOP for family values, which from my viewpoint is farcical. And if people are still voting GOP on the single issue of abortion...well that seems like people are willing to cut off their own hands to make sure their big toe remains intact. The recent proposed Trump tax cut will presumably harm almost everyone on this board. I know in my case, it will raise my tax obligation to the federal government by $1800/yr...and possibly more because they also want to do away with the mortgage interest tax credit, and one thing I keep hearing is adding a tax to scholarship moneys received by students. That would put my son, a FT student, in a tax bracket similar to me. How are any of these things making life better for average Americans, you know, the middle 70% of Americans? And people will be like "We didn't know he'd try to cut Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security, VA benefits, etc. We ****ing told you...hell Trump and Project 2025 told you.

1) Do you have an official link to the tax proposal? Doing away with the mortgage tax credit would be extremely harmful to my business.

2) I’ve spoke at length about censorship and the Biden Admin. The twitter files are a decent resource as are Zucks latest comments regarding the pressure from the Biden Admin to censor dissenting voices.

3) I don’t believe it’s so much people voting for Pubs opposed to people voting against Dems. The Dems have lost the working class and are well on their way to losing Hispanics. The demographics which looked so good for the Dems now may favor the Pubs. The Dems obsession with fringe social issues put off a number of working class and Hispanic voters. They know this but as of today haven’t been able to help themselves. I know they’re talking about a change of direction but will/can they follow through?