Flu shot benefits...Corona virus

[tbryce]

Appears to reduce likelihood of hospitalization.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

 

[tbryce]

Counties that voted for Trump are those worst hit by the virus... Forest Gump could figure that out.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-11-05/counties-with-worst-virus-surges-overwhelmingly-voted-trump

 

[URedskin54]

El Paso County and NYC say hi

 

[tbryce]

From Johns Hopkins:

UNITED STATES
The US CDC reported 9.46 million total cases and 233,129 deaths. The US reported 106,537 new cases yesterday, the first country to surpass 100,000 cases in a single day. The daily COVID-19 incidence continues to increase and set new records, now up to an average of 89,912 new cases per day. The reported incidence is expected to increase even further in the updates posted today. Additionally, the US reported more than 1,000 deaths for the second consecutive day and the fifth time in the last 8 days. The US COVID-19 mortality has climbed steadily since October 18, up from approximately 700 deaths per day to 869. This represents an increase of nearly 25% and the highest average since September 2.

 

[URedskin54]

The Republican stronghold of Illinois had more than 12,000 cases today

 

[tbryce]

Rather than single data points, take a look at how the virus has spread state by state since June. The chart is normalized using cases/100,000 of population. It takes a a minute or two to progress from June to now. The trend is clear: states that bought into the White House approach are suffering the most. Those that took public health recommendations seriously did better.

COVID Cases since June by state partisanship

Animated bar graph chart of total COVID cases, state-by-state, since June 1

dangoodspeed.com

 

[URedskin54]

Rather than starting from an arbitrary point in time (the equivalent of picking out single data points) or measuring something as irrelevant as total confirmed cases(heavily influenced by testing numbers), you should look at the entirety of the pandemic and something relevant like deaths per million.

What you’re doing is dishonest. No other way to describe it.

 

[maverickfp]

U see all those dems partying in the streets! Look at that social distancing!

 

[URedskin54]

U see all those dems partying in the streets! Look at that social distancing!

So many people so eager to kill grandma

 

[tbryce]

Rather than starting from an arbitrary point in time (the equivalent of picking out single data points) or measuring something as irrelevant as total confirmed cases(heavily influenced by testing numbers), you should look at the entirety of the pandemic and something relevant like deaths per million.

What you’re doing is dishonest. No other way to describe it.

Actually starting in June helps Republican led, central US states in total cases because the virus did not reach them until later in the year. They start off low but pass by states hit early pretty quickly.

Is your point that social distancing, masks and lock down do not reduce viral spread? That data supporting that view is necessarily 'dishonest'? Here are more ways of looking at that data.

1) here are deaths/M since the virus was discovered in March. Testing independent.

2) Here are new cases/M/week since March 1.

3) Here is a rolling 90 day chart factoring deaths and cases

4) Here are total cases starting in July to compare with a June start date.

If you have data that contradicts the value of public health recommendations, please post.

 

[URedskin54]

Actually starting in June helps Republican led, central US states in total cases because the virus did not reach them until later in the year. They start off low but pass by states hit early pretty quickly.

Is your point that social distancing, masks and lock down do not reduce viral spread? That data supporting that view is necessarily 'dishonest'? Here are more ways of looking at that data.

1) here are deaths/M since the virus was discovered in March. Testing independent.

2) Here are new cases/M/week since March 1.

3) Here is a rolling 90 day chart factoring deaths and cases

4) Here are total cases starting in July to compare with a June start date.

If you have data that contradicts the value of public health recommendations, please post.

WATU always gives himself away with the straw men. I’m going to ignore everything after your first paragraph because they are not a response to what I said.

Now, ignoring the fact that breaking things down into red states vs blue states is dumb because the cities within many red states are very blue and in most cases have been allowed to implement the policies they see fit, no a cutoff of June 1st does not help red states. It’s obvious why. Prior to June testing levels were much lower than they are now and they grew pretty much linearly over time. So that means every blue state that was hit hard prior to June detected a much lower percentage of their actual cases than states that were hit later. This skews the number downward for blue states and skews it upward for red states. It’s not an apples to apples comparison. This is an obvious observation, and because I assume you’re not dumb I’m going to assume you’re being intentionally dishonest.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

WATU always gives himself away with the straw men. I’m going to ignore everything after your first paragraph because they are not a response to what I said.

Now, ignoring the fact that breaking things down into red states vs blue states is idiotic because the cities within many red states are very blue and in most cases have been allowed to implement the policies they see fit, no a cutoff of June 1st does not help red states. It’s obvious why. Prior to June testing levels were much lower than they are now and they grew pretty much linearly over time. So that means every blue state that was hit hard prior to June detected a much lower percentage of their actual cases than states that were hit later. This skews the number downward for blue states and skews it upward for red states. It’s not an apples to apples comparison. This is an obvious observation, and because I assume you’re not dumb I’m going to assume you’re being intentionally dishonest.

Bias affects honesty to one's own self.

 

[aTUfan]

The Republican stronghold of Illinois had more than 12,000 cases today

Is every case. Sick?

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Is every case. Sick?

Don't know, you go to Chi town and check em all.

Get back to me and let me know what you find out.

Just keep your six posts of distance when you let me know.

 

[TULSARISING]

Don't know, you go to Chi town and check em all.

Get back to me and let me know what you find out.

Just keep your six posts of distance when you let me know.

It’s pretty unbelievable how much death and sickness this is causing only for people to still claim this is “ no big deal”

 

[Gmoney4WW]

It’s pretty unbelievable how much death and sickness this is causing only for people to still claim this is “ no big deal”

It's only a big deal to him if he thinks it's costing him money.

 

[tbryce]

I’m going to ignore everything after your first paragraph because they are not a response to what I said.

My apologies. I thought you had a problem with the data. My view is that where we don't pay attention to our world leading public health officials, people die.

 

[lawpoke87]

So now we’ve moved the goal posts from deaths to cases? New York, New Jersey and Mass still leading the way in deaths per capita.

 

[tbryce]

The data is what the data is. If you want to complain about moving goal posts but using deaths, take it up with Ured who bitched about testing being used. There are several additional cuts at the data on the site with other sequences.

The overall trends are clear. Public health recommendations work and ignoring them is deadly.

 

[URedskin54]

The data is what the data is. If you want to complain about moving goal posts but using deaths, take it up with Ured who bitched about testing being used. There are several additional cuts at the data on the site with other sequences.

The overall trends are clear. Public health recommendations work and ignoring them is deadly.

btw, the very very red state of Connecticut, which already has one of the worst death rates at 1300 deaths per million, reported 3300 new cases on Monday. The state is almost 500K people smaller than Oklahoma. The deeeeep red state of New Jersey, which at 1800+ deaths per million has the country’s worst death rate, reported 4200 cases today. New Jersey is roughly twice the size of Oklahoma.

 

[URedskin54]

More than 15,000 cases today in republican dominated Illinois. It’s a shame. If they had only followed #science the virus would have been eliminated from their state already

 

[maverickfp]

More than 15,000 cases today in republican dominated Illinois. It’s a shame. If they had only followed #science the virus would have been eliminated from their state already

Love the sarcasm. And im sure hillary wouldve squashed covid at less than 100 patients. And it wouldve stopped at 1 death.

 

[lawpoke87]

The data is what the data is. If you want to complain about moving goal posts but using deaths, take it up with Ured who bitched about testing being used. There are several additional cuts at the data on the site with other sequences.

The overall trends are clear. Public health recommendations work and ignoring them is deadly.

Public health recommendations have constantly changed and haven’t worked in the US or in Europe.

More testing will stop or slow the spread .... false
Masks will stop or slow the spread ... false.

The policies of a certain state is dictated by said state. The fact that blue states haven’t faired any better than red states is very telling.

The only effective measure here or in Europe has been shut downs...and that isn’t changing.

 

[shon46]

Bias affects honesty to one's own self.

Yup, you need to stop just saying and or writing these words and actually ingest these words into your consciousness. Be/do better!

 

[tbryce]

Public health recommendations have constantly changed and haven’t worked in the US or in Europe.

More testing will stop or slow the spread .... false
Masks will stop or slow the spread ... false.

The only effective measure here or in Europe has been shut downs...and that isn’t changing.

The recommendations have changed with the science but have been remarkably consistent given the opposition from the White House. As for contract tracing check out the S. Korean experience and understand that the US has basically done close to zero contact tracing as we never even got close to sufficient numbers. The S.Korean approach would never be accepted in the US (way too invasive of privacy) , but when done thoroughly their example shows that it works.

Picking at what the rest of the world considered as the world's most sophisticated medical establishment (ours) because they didn't publicly nail a totally new virus in all respects immediately is unrealistic, especially given the antagonistic political interference. Trump actively suppressed how bad it would be starting in late Feb and until he went into hiding was claiming the surge we are now experiencing wasn't going to happen.

 

[shon46]

Public health recommendations have constantly changed and haven’t worked in the US or in Europe.

More testing will stop or slow the spread .... false
Masks will stop or slow the spread ... false.

The policies of a certain state is dictated by said state. The fact that blue states haven’t faired any better than red states is very telling.

The only effective measure here or in Europe has been shut downs...and that isn’t changing.

No elections here in Europe yet we are locked down and the virus is spreading same way here as it is in the US. This manipulation of stats and fake news gaslighting is nothing more than an information warfare campaign, designed to deflate Republicans through blame and shame. It’s literally right out of the psychological warfare strategy playbook we used on the Japanese and Germany after WWII. Just as you have done, expose the tactic and redirect. It can only work if people allow it to!

 

[maverickfp]

Good lord youre thick. TDS does not explain why blue states are rapidly rising in cases like everwhere else. Read his words. Trump is a moron, duh. 80% of california thinks so too and still are rising in their cases. Do you condemn the blue idiots that were celebrating bidens victory in the streets? hundreds of them in tight proximity?

 

[tbryce]

Good lord youre thick. TDS does not explain why blue states are rapidly rising in cases like everwhere else. Read his words. Trump is a moron, duh. 80% of california thinks so too and still are rising in their cases. Do you condemn the blue idiots that were celebrating bidens victory in the streets? hundreds of them in tight proximity?

Getting together groups is not a good idea regardless of political party. (It was a single event organized outdoors where people could drive in, sit on their cars, and most wore masks. Not great, but a step up and not to be repeated. Contrast with Trump's campaign rallies which were held several times a day toward the end.)

As for California or any state, none of them are composed 100% of a single party. Trump still has 70 million supporters out there, many of whom consider public health measures an invasion of their privacy, are leaving it up to god, or are following Trump's example.. Fauci, every other credible health official and the CDC predicted this would happen everywhere and it is.

The problem now is that all states are being hit at the same time, so one state can borrow resources from a less affected state as was the case in the spring.

 

[shon46]

Getting together groups is not a good idea regardless of political party. (It was a single event organized outdoors where people could drive in, sit on their cars, and most wore masks. Not great, but a step up and not to be repeated. Contrast with Trump's campaign rallies which were held several times a day toward the end.)

As for California or any state, none of them are composed 100% of a single party. Trump still has 70 million supporters out there, many of whom consider public health measures an invasion of their privacy, are leaving it up to god, or are following Trump's example.. Fauci, every other credible health official and the CDC predicted this would happen everywhere and it is.

The problem now is that all states are being hit at the same time, so one state can borrow resources from a less affected state as was the case in the spring.

Several people have responded to you but I haven’t seen your response. You say this outbreak is brought on by people not following Fauci but what about obedient Europe? They followed all things Fauci and China recommended and are in no better place than the US.

 

[URedskin54]

As for California or any state, none of them are composed 100% of a single party. Trump still has 70 million supporters out there, many of whom consider public health measures an invasion of their privacy, are leaving it up to god, or are following Trump's example..

This is a perfect illustration of a point I’ve made before: just like in every society since the beginning of man, a plague gives people the opportunity to cast blame on undesirables/enemies and we’ve done the same this year. It’s a cop out that people run to because they’d prefer not to think too hard and they really want to see their political opposites as evil. There is this superstitious/magical thinking that pretends “if only those dumb rednecks in Lubbock would follow science, there wouldn’t be a massive outbreak El Paso”

 

[lawpoke87]

The recommendations have changed with the science but have been remarkably consistent given the opposition from the White House. As for contract tracing check out the S. Korean experience and understand that the US has basically done close to zero contact tracing as we never even got close to sufficient numbers. The S.Korean approach would never be accepted in the US (way too invasive of privacy) , but when done thoroughly their example shows that it works.

Picking at what the rest of the world considered as the world's most sophisticated medical establishment (ours) because they didn't publicly nail a totally new virus in all respects immediately is unrealistic, especially given the antagonistic political interference. Trump actively suppressed how bad it would be starting in late Feb and until he went into hiding was claiming the surge we are now experiencing wasn't going to happen.

Just stop with the South Korea stuff. Culturally and politically they bear little resemblance to the US. Europe is our measuring stick and always will be. Trump had zero effect on the way they’re handling the pandemic. Trump had very little effect on the way many of those blue states handled shutdowns, restrictions, etc... Blaming this surge on Trump when an identical situation is occurring across Europe is beyond dishonest. You’re better than this.

 

[maverickfp]

Just stop with the South Korea stuff. Culturally and politically they bear little resemblance to the US. Europe is our measuring stick and always will be. Trump had zero effect on the way they’re handling the pandemic. Trump had very little effect on the way many of those blue states handled shutdowns, restrictions, etc... Blaming this surge on Trump when an identical situation is occurring across Europe is beyond dishonest. You’re better than this.

No better than tufan. Blinded by ideology.

 

[lawpoke87]

LOL! Why not compare us only with Brazil or Sweden or Yemen? That should really be our basis of comparison; the lowest of the low? We'd come out about the same: 4% of the world's population and 25% of the deaths and cases.

What did I say? I said Europe. Never mentioned any of those countries. What the hell are you talking about? Europe will always be our best comparison due to multiple reasons.

 

[Weatherdemon]

Man, just so much we still don't know about COVID-19.

Study: Respiratory failure in COVID-19 usually not driven by cytokine storm

The turning point for people with COVID-19 typically comes in the second week of symptoms. As most people begin to recover, a few others find it increasingly difficult to breathe and wind up in the hospital. It has been theorized that those whose lungs begin to fail are victims of their own...

medicalxpress.com

 

[tbryce]

Speaking of getting together without masks...this won't play out well.

Trump Supporters, Counterprotesters Clash At D.C. Rally Contesting Biden's Victory

Right-wing activists and protesters designated as hate groups echoed the president's false claims of a stolen election. As night fell, clashes between Trump fans and counterprotesters turned violent.

www.npr.org

 

[tbryce]

Europe will always be our best comparison due to multiple reasons.

OK, what are they?

Also why is S. Korea, a industrialized democracy and ally of the US, necessarily eliminated as an example of how contact tracing can be used to control the virus?

 

[URedskin54]

Speaking of getting together without masks...this won't play out well.

Trump Supporters, Counterprotesters Clash At D.C. Rally Contesting Biden's Victory

Right-wing activists and protesters designated as hate groups echoed the president's false claims of a stolen election. As night fell, clashes between Trump fans and counterprotesters turned violent.

www.npr.org

I must have missed your outrage about the mass maskless celebrations after Biden’s victory. If you create a set of rules that only apply to the people you don’t like, they stop caring.

This means going beyond saying “well I don’t agree with those either” when it gets brought up. Our moral betters must act like the moral betters they think they are by coming down on and shaming their side just as harshly as they shame those icky Trump supporters.

 

[lawpoke87]

OK, what are they?

Also why is S. Korea, a industrialized democracy and ally of the US, necessarily eliminated as an example of how contact tracing can be used to control the virus?

Population, culture, size, genetics, similar experience with pandemics like SARS...should I continue? It’s fairly evident. I would argue culture is probably the most important factor. Not sure about genetics.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Population, culture, size, genetics, similar experience with pandemics like SARS...should I continue? It’s fairly evident.

That's not a very comprehensive list of reasons. 😜

 

[tbryce]

Population, culture, size, genetics, similar experience with pandemics like SARS...should I continue? It’s fairly evident.

Let's take the racial (genetic and cultural) issues out and look at the science.

More testing. The US has not and is not testing enough to provide the data in enough numbers and rapidly enough. Inadequate testing is not proof that testing doesn't work.

Masks do slow the spread. Again Trump and his followers have opposed and even ridiculed mask use. while public health officials supported their use. So...non-users such as Trump and much of the White House were infected. North Dakota spiked after their motor cycle weekend, and OK after Trump's rally. We now have rigorous testing that supports that masks protect both the users and others. You are critical of changes in public health recommendations, but the public health recommendations have been far, far more consistent since February (wash hands, wear a mask, socially distance, etc.), and their predictions more accurate than Trump's claims that the virus wasn't serious, would go away in the spring, would go away in the summer, was only the flu, etc. etc.. None of which were true.

Contact tracing. Contact tracing works before the virus has spread into the community to keep it from spending into the community Once a virus is out in the general population, it is too late.. Countries and communities that locked down early and used contact tracing have controlled the virus. The key difference between Korea and the US was not genetics or culture but if the country had leadership and acted quickly to take public health measures. Trump, Pence, Kusher, etc. were clueless and ignored the pandemic play book that was sitting on the White House shelf.

As the Woodward book testifies, Trump knew in February that the virus was deadly and decided not only to conceal the facts but to actively lie about them right until the bitter end....whenever that is.