ADVERTISEMENT

ebola

aTUfan

I.T.S. Athletic Director
Apr 18, 2011
8,651
755
113
la la land
Jesse Jackson is comming to Dallas to help with the Ebola Crisis here?

That will fix everything.
 
I want Obama to go there too. You know its a serious affliction when your doctor wears a space suit on his required "rounds" and you are surrounded in a germ free bubble as well.

According to the medical officials there is little chance of contracting the disease, but reports have said that a person can be infected by touching a door knob 30 minutes after the carrier of the disease did. If that can occur, what about using a public restroom or dressing room? Are public restrooms really clean? What if you step in some germ infested vomit and later change shoes? There seem to be a variety of ways to contract that awful disease.
 
They determined that the patient came into contact with children that attend 5 different schools in the Dallas area, so the school officials directed that the schools to be closed and scrubbed to remove any chance of contamination.

The resident maintenance team at each school was expected to do the work. No other school workers volunteered to help and they did not get any help local health dept or the CDC. So the Department head ordered hasmat suits to protect the workers. Now they are in trouble for that action.



If the officials felt that the walls could contain contamination, then the workers needed to be provided with protection.
 
A lot of questions out there regarding current transmission vectors for this strain of Ebola. With health workers (who are taking biohazard precautions) becoming infected the normal rules of "only after symptoms show" and "only via body fluids" don't seem to apply.

AFRICOM (US Command for Africa) ain't happy with the deployment of 3000 - 4000 of our guys to a hot zone and SOUTHCOM is greatly concerned about the disease making it to Central America. It is troublesome when the military commands are worried about disease and the need for immigration controls to isolate same.

Big fun. Now all we need is an untested but widely distributed Ebola vaccine so we can make things worse.



SOUTHCOM Commander: Ebola Outbreak in Central America Could Cause Mass Migration to U.S.
By Sam LaGrone
October 7, 2014



WASHINGTON, D.C. - The head of U.S. Southern Command (SOUTHCOM) warned an Ebola outbreak in Central America or the Caribbean could trigger a mass migration to the U.S. of people fleeing the disease and implied established Central American illegal trafficking networks could introduce the infected into the U.S., during remarks at a Tuesday panel on security issues in the Western Hemisphere at the National Defense University.

"If it comes to the Western Hemisphere, the countries that we're talking about have almost no ability to deal with it - particularly in Haiti and Central America," SOUTHCOM Commander, Marine Gen. John F. Kelly, said in response to a question of his near term concerns in the region. "It will make the 68,000 unaccompanied minors look like a small problem."

An Ebola outbreak could encourage the poor and increasingly desperate populations in Central American countries - like Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador - to leave in droves.

"I think you've seen this so many times in the past, when in doubt, take off," he said.

Though an ocean away from Ebola hotspots in Africa, a growing numbers of West Africans are using the illicit trafficking routes through Central America to enter the U.S. illegally and could introduce the disease in the U.S. Kelly stressed through out the panel session at NDU how effective the criminal transportation networks were at moving people and material into the U.S. "We see a lot of West Africans moving in that network," he said.

Kelly passed on a story from a border checkpoint in Costa Rica - told to him by an American embassy official - in which five or six men from Liberia were waiting to cross into Nicaragua. The group had flown into Trinidad and then traveled to Costa Rica hoping to travel up the Central American isthmus and into the U.S. Given the length of the journey, "they could have been in New York City well within the incubation period for Ebola," Kelly said. The realities of a potential outbreak caused Kelly to ask his staff to start thinking about the affects to the SOUTHCOM area of operations (AO) and pay attention to the response of U.S. Africa Command (AFRICOM). The U.S. has sent 4,000 troops to West Africa to assist countries in dealing with the Ebola outbreaks in the region.

"The five services of the U.S. military will get it done and be a large solution to this problem," Kelly said.

In the meantime, SOUTHCOM is regular contact with AFRICOM in the event of the worst-case outcome.

"We're watching what AFRICOM is doing and their plan will be our plan," Kelly said. "The nightmare scenario, I think, is right around the corner."
 
Originally posted by rabidTU:

According to the medical officials there is little chance of contracting the disease, but reports have said that a person can be infected by touching a door knob 30 minutes after the carrier of the disease did. If that can occur, what about using a public restroom or dressing room? Are public restrooms really clean? What if you step in some germ infested vomit and later change shoes? There seem to be a variety of ways to contract that awful disease.
You can't contract the virus just by touching the same door knob as a carrier. It takes many steps before and beyond that point. Ebola is scary because of its mortality rate, but thankfully it's pretty difficult to transmit.
 
Originally posted by voetvoet:



Originally posted by rabidTU:

According to the medical officials there is little chance of contracting the disease, but reports have said that a person can be infected by touching a door knob 30 minutes after the carrier of the disease did. If that can occur, what about using a public restroom or dressing room? Are public restrooms really clean? What if you step in some germ infested vomit and later change shoes? There seem to be a variety of ways to contract that awful disease.
You can't contract the virus just by touching the same door knob as a carrier. It takes many steps before and beyond that point. Ebola is scary because of its mortality rate, but thankfully it's pretty difficult to transmit.
I'm certainly no doctor like yourself, but that is what was reported on the radio - I believe last Friday. But anytime something like this occurs, there is a lot of "fear reporting" and conjecture, I'm sure. But if there was no chance of contamination by touching feces, vomit and other body fluids, why do they go to so much trouble disinfecting the area? Could that be an attempt to sooth peoples fears even if it isn't needed?


This post was edited on 10/8 4:10 PM by rabidTU
 
Another unintended consequence of this may be an influx of people trying to illegally enter the US to get better medical care for the disease - like the African man who died today in Dallas. But a spike of sick illegals also would compound the problem for us and raise the risk of it spreading throughout this country. This has Obama's politically correct fingerprints all over it. Ignoring a serious problem. Clamping down on the media of a serious issue. An unsecure country along its borders.

Its now a scary mulligans stew of incompetence from our federal govt. and the way they've handled yet another crisis.
 
Originally posted by rabidTU:
But if there was no chance of contamination by touching feces, vomit and other body fluids, why do they go to so much trouble disinfecting the area? Could that be an attempt to sooth peoples fears even if it isn't needed?
Because if you somehow internalize those bodily fluids, then there's still a risk of infection. And for a virus that kills ~50% of those who contract it, you can't risk even one more person getting infected.
 
Originally posted by voetvoet:



Originally posted by rabidTU:


But if there was no chance of contamination by touching feces, vomit and other body fluids, why do they go to so much trouble disinfecting the area? Could that be an attempt to sooth peoples fears even if it isn't needed?
Because if you somehow internalize those bodily fluids, then there's still a risk of infection. And for a virus that kills ~50% of those who contract it, you can't risk even one more person getting infected.
OK, dumb question. Wouldn't you internalize those fluids if you touch them with your hand and then put that hand to your mouth? If those body fluids are all over the place, the bedroom of a victim for instance, isn't there a good chance that might occur at some point? Isn't there a short "shelf life" for the bacteria after it hits the air? 30 minutes maybe?


This post was edited on 10/8 8:23 PM by rabidTU
 
Unfortunately, the door knob scenario is entirely plausible as is the hand shake scenario and several others. Not sure where VV is getting information but mine comes from military doctors who are ramping up to deal with this issue as well as the CDC. An additional concern is that nobody has determined how health care workers (who are taking standard biohazard precautions) are becoming infected. Lots of theories (including a more robust form of the Ebola virus) but no real understanding at this time.

Transmission requires fluids (blood, stomach contents, whatever) that are "hot" (contain the pathogen) coming into contact with mucous membranes or broken skin. So:

1. Carrier managed to get hot bodily fluid on their hand
2. Carrier touches object
3. Victim has open cut on hand
4. Victim touches object
5. Hot fluid gets into cut

You can also run that scenario for a "touch the contaminated object then touch your eye" transmission and a host of others.

Ebola can survive in fluids at room temperature for several days and on dry surfaces at room temperature for several hours.

Ebola tends to die when exposed to sunlight, UV or EM radiation.

You can go to the CDC site and review the information for more details.

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/index.html

Additional information on transmission and how long the virus can survive outside the body can be found here:

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html

Hand sanitizers have to be at least 50% alcohol to be effective against Ebola.

Thanks!
 
Originally posted by old_goat_23:
Unfortunately, the door knob scenario is entirely plausible as is the hand shake scenario and several others. Not sure where VV is getting information but mine comes from military doctors who are ramping up to deal with this issue as well as the CDC. An additional concern is that nobody has determined how health care workers (who are taking standard biohazard precautions) are becoming infected. Lots of theories (including a more robust form of the Ebola virus) but no real understanding at this time.

Transmission requires fluids (blood, stomach contents, whatever) that are "hot" (contain the pathogen) coming into contact with mucous membranes or broken skin. So:

1. Carrier managed to get hot bodily fluid on their hand
2. Carrier touches object
3. Victim has open cut on hand
4. Victim touches object
5. Hot fluid gets into cut

You can also run that scenario for a "touch the contaminated object then touch your eye" transmission and a host of others.

Ebola can survive in fluids at room temperature for several days and on dry surfaces at room temperature for several hours.

Ebola tends to die when exposed to sunlight, UV or EM radiation.

You can go to the CDC site and review the information for more details.

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/index.html

Additional information on transmission and how long the virus can survive outside the body can be found here:

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html

Hand sanitizers have to be at least 50% alcohol to be effective against Ebola.

Thanks!
Thanks Old Goat. That clears up a lot. The "hot" term is a pretty good one imo. So my interpretation of this is that if the conditions are right, a person doesn't have to have "absolute" direct contact with a victim. That is scary, but also allows us to see the disease for what it really is and allow us a chance to beware of those "conditions" to protect the lives of our loved ones. Thats all we ask of our govt too. But they evidently have another agenda working here - the midterms maybe?



This post was edited on 10/9 9:23 AM by rabidTU
 
Just a bit of a follow up.

CDC (and others) have now confirmed that health workers (including the one who was just diagnosed in Dallas) were using "full CDC precautions" but still got infected. As noted, nobody seems to understand:

1. Which strain of Ebola we are dealing with (or we are dealing with multiple strains or a new strain or a new and an old strain .... there are five strains of Ebola identified thus far).

2. What the transmission protocols (and associated precautions) are for this variant or variants.

I've seen other tidbits regarding health workers being infected while adhering to normal protective measures but this is the first time the CDC or USAMRIID have made an official comment on the topic.

From WaPo. Link here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/10/12/dallas-health-care-worker-who-treated-thomas-eric-duncan-has-tested-positive-for-ebola/?wpisrc=al_national

A Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital worker who tested positive for
Ebola in a preliminary test treated Thomas Eric Duncan after his second
visit to the ER, on Sept. 28. The health worker was "following full CDC
precautions," including wearing a gown, gloves, a mask and a protective
face shield.



Health officials have begun the contact tracing process to identify and
check in with anybody who recently made contact with the health-care
worker. Those people "will be monitored based on the nature of their
interactions and the potential they were exposed to the virus," the
state's Department
of Health Services said.


I am really happy that I am not going to be one of the 4000 service people deployed to West Africa to help "contain" the Ebola outbreak. Not sure if I'd want to spend my days at MOPP 4. Those suits are freakin' hot.

Thanks!
 
Here's the link from NYTimes. The CDC seems to be holding onto the view that it is just bodily fluids and that someone made a mistake in following their protocols. Still raises questions about how Ebola is spread.

NYTimes New infection in Texas
 
Let me start off by saying that I am an ignorant layman. But I do know that when your hands are dirty your nose always itches.

Perhaps the person with the disease did make a protocol mistake. If large numbers of people interact with those ill and their bodily fluids for an extended period of time, the it is not unlikely that there will be more mistakes. The story keeps changing. CDC doesn't seem to have settled on a final answer. And once there is a mistake a person can come into contact with others before they know that they have the disease.

I have serious doubts sending thousands of US Military to West Africa is a good way to protect the United States. I'm concerned that it is not a proper role for the US Military.
 
There's a much larger agenda working here. Obama and his minions don't want to make his open borders policy seem to be part of the problem. (Therefor they have to say the protocols will work in spite of the evidence.) Closing borders is counter productive to his politics and of course those midterms coming up have to be considered. So he and those in his branch of govt make it seem that the disease can be delt with overseas since only a few unfortunate folks here have it so far and it is being defeated here. And of course, being Santa Claus, all we have to do to stop this terrible disease is to send in american reinforcements and taxpayer money - its only $750,000,000 - at least thats what they say it is - so far. Later on you can be assured it will be billions.

But guess where Obama is right now? C'mon, just take a guess. Option #1 - Oval Room. Option #2 - Democratic fund raiser. Option #3 - Golf Course.

Ding, ding ding. Yes, thats right! Door #3! After his photo op - on the phone with a serious look on his face, he was off to the first tee box. Time for a mulligan!


imo
 
The people in charge have no clue how to handle this. This includes the CDC, WHO, Dallas county health dept, the Hospital, . . .

And no. Not every hospital is equipted nor are the staff prepared to handle ebola patients.



The 48 civilians who came into contact with Mr Turner, and the 70 or so health workers were put on SELF monitoring for 21 days. The should have been quarantined; not getting on planes, not going to the mall, . . .

I saw that BHO canceled his campaign trips. I bet he can fix this.(it' Bush's fault)
 
Relax...................we have a lawyer with no medical experience in charge now. The only thing which apparently makes him more qualified than myself is that he is a longtime operative for the Democratic party.
 
There are two questions in my mind that Obama will not and can not answer because he has a greater political agenda.


1. How does allowing a possibly infected West African into the US, stop Ebola in West Africa?

2. How does allowing a possibly infected West African into the US, prevent Ebola from infecting americans?

Its even obvious to people that know nothing about the disease, that Obamas policy puts americans at greater risk - whether anything comes of it or not. The policy makes no sense and several other counties in Africa, Europe and S America know that.

But imo this is why Obama is a dangerous POTUS. He doesn't care about the average american in Dallas or anywhere else. As long as he gets his radical lieberal agenda in place, nothing else matters - your life, your kids or your loved ones wherever they are. Collateral damage.


The POTUS's first responsibility is to protect americans, not Africans or Europeans or South Americans. Its the POTUS and his policy that are the problem. There's no positive spin that can be put on a dead or serously sick innocent american citizen who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If the procedures, policies and so called "protocols" were the solution, then we wouldn't have this alarming problem and fear that accompanies it.

When the symptoms include everything from projectile vomiting, exploding diahria and nurses in space suits, there is no expalanation needed. A lieberal spinner can lieberally spin all day, but he'll have to defy common logic. Only the ideologically blind can accept this wo those 2 questions above.




This post was edited on 10/19 9:39 AM by rabidTU
 
I think today is the end of the self monitoring period for the 48 civilians who had some contact with the first patient, and there have been no new cases.

We are near the end of the self monitoring period for the 70 or so health care workers who took care of him, and again ther have been no new cases.

only have the two nurses who took care of him and both seem to be improving.
 
A bit more on the military response front (below).

Also have confirmed that the troops going to Africa will not be at MOPP-4 or 5 but instead wearing civilian masks and gloves only. MOPP = Mission Oriented Protective Posture. There are five levels from 0 where gear is available to 5 where all protective gear is worn. MOPP 5 is standard for areas in which a known chemical or biological hazard is present. Masks and gloves are not one of the defined MOPP levels so the troops will have zero training with the protocol in use. Troops will not be issued full MOPP gear for their sojourn to Africa. Whoever made this decision is an idiot.

Thanks!

Military Forms Domestic Ebola Rapid-Response Team


The Pentagon has ordered U.S. Northern Command to set up a 30-person military rapid-response medical team to bolster civilian hospitals in efforts to combat domestic cases of Ebola.

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel gave the order over the weekend to Army Gen. Charles Jacoby, the NorthCom commander with responsibility for homeland defense, said Rear Adm. John Kirby, the Pentagon press secretary. "They will not be sent to West Africa or elsewhere overseas and will be called upon domestically only if deemed prudent by our public health professionals," Kirby said Sunday of the "expeditionary" response team.

The team was formed at the request of the Department of Health and Human Services as a precautionary measure "to ensure our nation is ready to respond quickly, effectively and safely in the event of additional Ebola cases in the United States."

Jacoby was tasking the military services to provide the personnel for the joint team that will include 20 critical care nurses, five doctors trained in infectious disease, and five trainers in infectious disease protocols and personal protective equipment (PPE). It will take about a week to select the personnel, and they will then be sent to Fort Sam Houston in Texas for specialized training from the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID), Kirby said. The formation of the response team was another indication of the growing military commitment to combating Ebola -- thus far primarily through support of public health efforts in West Africa.

In his weekly address, which was devoted entirely to the Ebola epidemic, President Obama said: "We're sharing lessons learned so other hospitals don't repeat the mistakes that happened in Dallas." He referred to the Ebola cases at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas where a Liberian man, Thomas Eric Duncan, died of the disease on Oct. 8, and two nurses who treated him -- Nina Pham and Amber Vinson -- later contracted the virus.

The White House and the Centers for Disease Control have said that mistakes were likely made in the use of personal protective equipment by the Dallas hospital, which relied on guidelines from the CDC that have since been revamped.

The White House and the CDC have also said that the only effective method of containment was to focus on curbing the spread of Ebola in West Africa, where the virus has hit hardest in Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea.

More than 4,500 deaths and nearly 10,000 cases of infection have beenreported in those three countries, according to the World Health Organization.

The U.S. military currently has about 550 personnel in West Africa -- more than 400 in Liberia and about 100 in Senegal, which is serving as an intermediate staging base for the flow of personnel and supplies into the region.

The military's priority currently is to construct a 25-bed field hospital for the treatment of health care workers who may have contracted Ebola and also 17 treatment centers of 100 beds each.

This post was edited on 10/20 9:00 AM by old_goat_23
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT