Disgusting......Sick....Despicable Joke

[TU_BLA]

Lol no kidding the throw away year when everyone knows the coach won’t work out but you need to give them one chance to turn it around (do they ever??) are the worst! We’ve had a lot recently. BB’s year 4, wojick year 4-7, Phillips year 4, Monty year 4 and 5... that’s the real killer about a bad hire, you’re guaranteed at least two years of misery and usually three, the bad year and the throw away year and the first year under the new guy who’s trying to restock and get his feet wet. Bad hires have a lot of downside. At least in the NBA when you tank you get a lottery pick, the throw away years get us nothing.

The Wojcik years were especially hard because we knew we weren't reaching the promised land, but things were never truly awful. That type of move was a pretty bold one for TU and mid-majors in general. I'm by no means saying it wasn't the right decision but it raised a lot of eyebrows outside of TU.

All the others deserved their fates. Phillips just wasn't anything near a D1 coach. Blankenship and Monty (should Monty get fired) was mostly due to their stubbornness and inability/unwillingness to adapt their personal styles or let anyone else in to provide insight.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Chito for AD!

Lol how hard can it be, right??? That’s usually the evil angel sitting on the entrepreneur’s shoulder when he adds a “wave magic wand” stage. You ask and the answer is “how hard can it be?” And the answer is “really, really, really fu&@ing hard, harder than anything you’ve ever done.” But they don’t believe it. Some figure it out and most become project managers at mid tier big companies. Turns out that really good things that everyone want are really, really hard to get because everyone is chasing them. That’s why I think Gragg has to go. He should be working 225% every day to have us ready for a change next year. I’m skeptical.

 

[chito_and_leon]

The Wojcik years were especially hard because we knew we weren't reaching the promised land, but things were never truly awful. That type of move was a pretty bold one for TU and mid-majors in general. I'm by no means saying it wasn't the right decision but it raised a lot of eyebrows outside of TU.

All the others deserved their fates. Phillips just wasn't anything near a D1 coach. Blankenship and Monty (should Monty get fired) was mostly due to their stubbornness and inability/unwillingness to adapt their personal styles or let anyone else in to provide insight.

Agree 100%. Wojick is the reason I think Monty winning 4 or god forbid 5 next year is the nightmare scenario.

 

[TU_BLA]

Lol how hard can it be, right??? That’s usually the evil angel sitting on the entrepreneur’s shoulder when he adds a “wave magic wand” stage. You ask and the answer is “how hard can it be?” And the answer is “really, really, really fu&@ing hard, harder than anything you’ve ever done.” But they don’t believe it. Some figure it out and most become project managers at mid tier big companies. Turns out that really good things that everyone want are really, really hard to get because everyone is chasing them. That’s why I think Gragg has to go. He should be working 225% every day to have us ready for a change next year. I’m skeptical.

His coaching hires haven't been the issue I've had with Gragg. He is too passive within the community. It seems our best marketing strategy "For our City" was more a partnership between Clancy and Bynum.

I understand why Gragg was hired. But he has pigeon-holed himself as a compliance guy and we just haven't seen the results in the other areas where TU is in most need- more fans and more donors.

 

[TU4ever2]

It's hard to convince the entire campus community an IPF project and raising $30+M for it is worth it when you've laid off a ton of people in the last 2 years, budgets are frozen and you have to write an essay to get personnel replaced or even office supplies, or heaven forbid, a more expensive piece of equipment or computer programming that you know will enhance the lives of current students, faculty, and/or staff.

I'm all for TU building one to give the football, soccer, etc. another chip to recruit with. In due time though. It has to be the right time for TU as a whole.

Of course having a coach who has more than one winning season usually helps with getting private donations for those sort of things.

Skelly did not turn in to Chapman magically, it was transformed when we won and the community saw we were serious about football.

Think anybody in the community feels that way right now? Wonder how that big donation drive is going now. Think it might be bigger if we were actually doing something?

I wasn't kidding when I said that keeping him will cost us more than firing him.

 

[cmullinsTU]

Of course having a coach who has more than one winning season usually helps with getting private donations for those sort of things.

Skelly did not turn in to Chapman magically, it was transformed when we won and the community saw we were serious about football.

Think anybody in the community feels that way right now? Wonder how that big donation drive is going now. Think it might be bigger if we were actually doing something?

I wasn't kidding when I said that keeping him will cost us more than firing him.

We’d have to replace him with someone who’ll accept under $1 million per year. That isn’t going to get us a coach that will win. Those with deep pockets understand the current position the athletic dept is in and will wait. It will not cost us more to keep him another season.

My source? A member of the BoT that I have known for over half my life. Same person was instrumental in the funding for the renovation that made the stadium name Chapman.

 

[cmullinsTU]

It will not cost us more to keep him another season.

That being said it is painful as a fan because I do not foresee next season being better than this one due to the poor offensive play.

 

[chito_and_leon]

We’d have to replace him with someone who’ll accept under $1 million per year. That isn’t going to get us a coach that will win. Those with deep pockets understand the current position the athletic dept is in and will wait. It will not cost us more to keep him another season.

My source? A member of the BoT that I have known for over half my life. Same person was instrumental in the funding for the renovation that made the stadium name Chapman.

Successful intelligent people understand the difference between foolishly rushing in with a half baked idea because they can’t delay gratification and strategically playing the long game with a well considered plan for success. That’s because they’re intelligent and why they’re successful. Not everyone is like that.

 

[4tu2]

We’d have to replace him with someone who’ll accept under $1 million per year. That isn’t going to get us a coach that will win. Those with deep pockets understand the current position the athletic dept is in and will wait. It will not cost us more to keep him another season.

My source? A member of the BoT that I have known for over half my life. Same person was instrumental in the funding for the renovation that made the stadium name Chapman.

Speculating here, but could it be that Montgomery's (and Haith's) negotiated "volunteered" pay cut came with job protection.

 

[cmullinsTU]

Speculating here, but could it be that Montgomery's (and Haith's) negotiated "volunteered" pay cut came with job protection.

I don’t know specifics but that is certainly plausible, the university would’ve had to concede something for them to agree to the cut. And it would’ve be something that didn’t impact the annual budget. Otherwise Haith would’ve likely left, he could’ve gotten a job somewhere that would’ve matched his pre-salary cut amount.

 

[HuffyCane]

If at any time either of them had any leverage to go any other place in the country to make what they were being paid before the cuts, they’d be there by now ...

If there was any type of job security, that would have been in the form of a contract extension, which the school refuses to discuss at this point for Haith in particular but also for Montgomery. They refused to discuss it or commit to it at the time of the “cuts” and there was bewilderment at that amongst some of the press as they walked in the hallway after the announcement .

Also, there is no publicly available evidence, yet, that these are truly “cuts” or just delayed compensation or a re-structuring of the amount paid to TU if they leave early. (Hypothetical: I make $1.5 million now. I agree to take $1 million this year, I get that $500,000 back from any buy out off the top if I leave plus another $250,000. If your fund raising improves you can pay me the $500,000 at any time plus 8 points and avoid the $250,000 if I leave in the future).

FWIW, Gragg’s total compensation package has been voluntarily reduced several times before that announcement.

So to answer you directly: highly unlikely any increase in job security. Nobody wants these guys for an amount equal to or greater than what we got snookered into paying. Not an enough evidence at this point that anybody else in the future will be willing to bail us out and pay for us on the back end what we shouldn’t have paid in the first place.

 

[HuffyCane]

Otherwise Haith would’ve likely left, he could’ve gotten a job somewhere that would’ve matched his pre-salary cut amount.

*cough*. His previous career decisions indicate that if this was true, he’d already be gone.

 

[TUMe]

Did we really need another thread like this?

Well, shucks this is a place to talk about football and we can't talk about which bowl we will be going to.

 

[chito_and_leon]

*cough*. His previous career decisions indicate that if this was true, he’d already be gone.

Frank usually doesn’t leave until just before he’s going to be fired. So it would have been too early for him to move.

 

[jerandlaur]

Not so sure Marion has the resume yet to be a QB coach or an OC for us. He would be a great WR coach though. Maybe a bit more time as OC for W&M will get him that experience

Seriously? Gus had one year at Arkansas before coming to Tulsa. Chad Morris came right out of high school ball. The Milkman should have been hired a couple of years ago when he was petitioning so hard for a place on the staff.

 

[TULSARISING]

Heard from a source ( someone that is a donates to the athletic department) that next year is Monty's last chance or he is gone.

 

[TU 1978]

Heard from a source ( someone that is a donates to the athletic department) that next year is Monty's last chance or he is gone.

We heard that after last year from some as well. I’m beginning to believe it’s not true.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

We heard that after last year from some as well. I’m beginning to believe it’s not true.

Next year will be his last unless we go to a bowl. It’s pretty widely understood among boosters/admin and probably Montgomery himself.

 

[chito_and_leon]

We heard that after last year from some as well. I’m beginning to believe it’s not true.

I don’t recall hearing that. I recall a lot of people saying he SHOULD be gone (people on here who don’t have pull) but not that he WOULD be gone.

 

[rusty-c]

I don’t recall hearing that. I recall a lot of people saying he SHOULD be gone (people on here who don’t have pull) but not that he WOULD be gone.

He should go hire an OC and let a bit of the offensive play calling control loose and manage the game. Hell, as the HC he can always overrule. I'm afraid his inability to let loose of the reigns a bit is going to be the final nail in his downfall.

 

[TulsaAM]

I think everyone is missing the point when it comes to TU Sports.

Coaching and the AD isn't the problem, not having the fan base to give the University the sports revenue to compete in major college football is. You can be successful in basketball because you really only need a few high-quality players to win consistently and you can do it with 15 scholarships (relatively inexpensive to comply with Title IX). This is why you have 63% more NCAA Basketball programs (347) than football programs (129).

Having to be in compliance with Title IX and considering all the OSU and OU in-city grads churned out every year, TU must put a consistent (yearly) championship-contending football team on the field to draw fans. OSU hasn't done crap in football but they have a fan base that would keep them in money even without Pickens. Tulsa could win the BCS and still wouldn't be able to draw away Poke-a-Dopes because it is their alma mater.

In short, the University of Tulsa needs more students and since the name recognition has shrunk over the years it will take drastic measures to get that to happen. Drop the tuition drastically, remove faculty, drop the numbered for degree programs, offer online degrees (the current mint in higher education), etc.

 

[chito_and_leon]

I think everyone is missing the point when it comes to TU Sports.

Coaching and the AD isn't the problem, not having the fan base to give the University the sports revenue to compete in major college football is. You can be successful in basketball because you really only need a few high-quality players to win consistently and you can do it with 15 scholarships (relatively inexpensive to comply with Title IX). This is why you have 63% more NCAA Basketball programs (347) than football programs (129).

Having to be in compliance with Title IX and considering all the OSU and OU in-city grads churned out every year, TU must put a consistent (yearly) championship-contending football team on the field to draw fans. OSU hasn't done crap in football but they have a fan base that would keep them in money even without Pickens. Tulsa could win the BCS and still wouldn't be able to draw away Poke-a-Dopes because it is their alma mater.

In short, the University of Tulsa needs more students and since the name recognition has shrunk over the years it will take drastic measures to get that to happen. Drop the tuition drastically, remove faculty, drop the numbered for degree programs, offer online degrees (the current mint in higher education), etc.

I thought one of the connected people said next years class is the biggest in years. Which would make me wonder about the premise that “it will take drastic measures to get that to happen.”

I can’t imagine anyone seriously suggesting that we do the things you mention just to make sports better. Ruin the university to maybe get better at sports? No thanks. Besides there’s far from any certainty that would help anyway. We’d just be a mid sized mediocre school. Seems like we’d be giving away what we have that’s great to be average in every way.

 

[drboobay]

We’d have to replace him with someone who’ll accept under $1 million per year. That isn’t going to get us a coach that will win. Those with deep pockets understand the current position the athletic dept is in and will wait. It will not cost us more to keep him another season.

My source? A member of the BoT that I have known for over half my life. Same person was instrumental in the funding for the renovation that made the stadium name Chapman.

Successful intelligent people understand the difference between foolishly rushing in with a half baked idea because they can’t delay gratification and strategically playing the long game with a well considered plan for success. That’s because they’re intelligent and why they’re successful. Not everyone is like that.

But I thought it was all about personality T

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I think everyone is missing the point when it comes to TU Sports.

Coaching and the AD isn't the problem, not having the fan base to give the University the sports revenue to compete in major college football is. You can be successful in basketball because you really only need a few high-quality players to win consistently and you can do it with 15 scholarships (relatively inexpensive to comply with Title IX). This is why you have 63% more NCAA Basketball programs (347) than football programs (129).

Having to be in compliance with Title IX and considering all the OSU and OU in-city grads churned out every year, TU must put a consistent (yearly) championship-contending football team on the field to draw fans. OSU hasn't done crap in football but they have a fan base that would keep them in money even without Pickens. Tulsa could win the BCS and still wouldn't be able to draw away Poke-a-Dopes because it is their alma mater.

In short, the University of Tulsa needs more students and since the name recognition has shrunk over the years it will take drastic measures to get that to happen. Drop the tuition drastically, remove faculty, drop the numbered for degree programs, offer online degrees (the current mint in higher education), etc.

Yeah, let's turn it into University of Pheonix at Tulsa so we can have better sports program.

 

[chito_and_leon]

But I thought it was all about personality T

Lol, which dark side characteristic relates to reckless impulsivity? I think that would be our winner!

 

[Tulsa_]

It's hard to convince the entire campus community an IPF project and raising $30+M for it is worth it when you've laid off a ton of people in the last 2 years, budgets are frozen and you have to write an essay to get personnel replaced or even office supplies, or heaven forbid, a more expensive piece of equipment or computer programming that you know will enhance the lives of current students, faculty, and/or staff.

I'm all for TU building one to give the football, soccer, etc. another chip to recruit with. In due time though. It has to be the right time for TU as a whole.

BAHS has one... it was not $30 million.

$5.3 Million evidently.... http://www.wallacesc.com/inspire/br...s-indoor-athletic-facility-and-outdoor-track/

 

[goldenhurricane2]

BAHS has one... it was not $30 million.

$5.3 Million evidently.... http://www.wallacesc.com/inspire/br...s-indoor-athletic-facility-and-outdoor-track/

The price tag is a little higher for the one we wanted to install due to the amount of “additional use” it would need to receive. This makes it more of a multi purpose building than just an IPF.

 

[TU_BLA]

BAHS has one... it was not $30 million.

$5.3 Million evidently.... http://www.wallacesc.com/inspire/br...s-indoor-athletic-facility-and-outdoor-track/

That's not nearly big enough for an FBS program.

This is what Liberty did. This is probably the minimum of what TU should do.
http://www.liberty.edu/flames/index.cfm?PID=38092

 

[astonmartin708]

The price tag is a little higher for the one we wanted to install due to the amount of “additional use” it would need to receive. This makes it more of a multi purpose building than just an IPF.

Screw additional use. If the difference between getting it done and not getting it done is additional use which also entails an extra 25 million dollars. Then don’t make it additional use. We don’t need 70’ cieleng clearance just so our punters can practice.

 

[TU1NNJ]

I have no engineering background so this may be a naive question for posters that are engineers. Couldn’t some type of roofing structure be placed over Chapman (not fully enclosed just covering) at a price comparable to building a full IPF?

Many of the airports in the US are building canopy systems over portions of their parking decks (RDU has one that provides cover across the parking area between 2 terminals more than several football fields apart). I looked at a couple of websites that talked about air pressure roofing for stadiums that on the surface seemed feasible. Not sure if the cost is less than an IPF but it eliminates finding space on campus or acquisition of land near the campus.

If this could be done it could also enhance game day experience with shade for the east side. Also makes the facility more useful for practice during snow, rain or other weather issues. Could be used for other student or school related activities.

Just my crazy thought of the day.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

Screw additional use. If the difference between getting it done and not getting it done is additional use which also entails an extra 25 million dollars. Then don’t make it additional use. We don’t need 70’ cieleng clearance just so our punters can practice.

I’m just telling you part of the problem. They even wanted it to have classrooms in it at one point.

 

[astonmartin708]

I have no engineering background so this may be a naive question for posters that are engineers. Couldn’t some type of roofing structure be placed over Chapman (not fully enclosed just covering) at a price comparable to building a full IPF?

Many of the airports in the US are building canopy systems over portions of their parking decks (RDU has one that provides cover across the parking area between 2 terminals more than several football fields apart). I looked at a couple of websites that talked about air pressure roofing for stadiums that on the surface seemed feasible. Not sure if the cost is less than an IPF but it eliminates finding space on campus or acquisition of land near the campus.

If this could be done it could also enhance game day experience with shade for the east side. Also makes the facility more useful for practice during snow, rain or other weather issues. Could be used for other student or school related activities.

Just my crazy thought of the day.

TU doesn't have a civil engineering or an architecture program. The world may never know.

 

[chito_and_leon]

I have no engineering background so this may be a naive question for posters that are engineers. Couldn’t some type of roofing structure be placed over Chapman (not fully enclosed just covering) at a price comparable to building a full IPF?

Many of the airports in the US are building canopy systems over portions of their parking decks (RDU has one that provides cover across the parking area between 2 terminals more than several football fields apart). I looked at a couple of websites that talked about air pressure roofing for stadiums that on the surface seemed feasible. Not sure if the cost is less than an IPF but it eliminates finding space on campus or acquisition of land near the campus.

If this could be done it could also enhance game day experience with shade for the east side. Also makes the facility more useful for practice during snow, rain or other weather issues. Could be used for other student or school related activities.

Just my crazy thought of the day.

In the tundra where I live, all the major high schools have temporary domes they put up in the winter and take down in the spring. They cover several football fields and are maybe 30 or 40 feet of vertical clearance inside. So like you say, this seems like a solvable problem.

 

[TU_BLA]

TU doesn't have a civil engineering or an architecture program. The world may never know.

Mechanical engineering should be able to handle that question

 

[Gmoney4WW]

It sounds possible, but maybe the cost of automating it makes it unfeasible? If they have to put a crew on it and spend a day getting it ready, then that wouldn't be good for practical reasons.

 

[TU1NNJ]

This the system used at DIA may not be aesthetically pleasing but could likely be modified to look better.

https://cozine.com/2014-september/dia-story-behind-tents/

 

[HuffyCane]

Ge

Skelly did not turn in to Chapman magically, it was transformed when we won and the community saw we were serious about football..

Skelly became Chapman when TU issued bonds to pay for it. The donations you speak of were not even half of the cost of the renovations. TU is having trouble generating revenue to pay down those bonds (and other projects as well) without impacting current programming. That is why you are seeing salary reductions, retirements, etc. We bought a stadium on our credit card. Now we have to pay the balance off after we got demoted at our job.

However, You are correct that winning will help with small and mid tier donations.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Ge

Skelly became Chapman when TU issued bonds to pay for it. The donations you speak of were not even half of the cost of the renovations. TU is having trouble generating revenue to pay down those bonds (and other projects as well) without impacting current programming. That is why you are seeing salary reductions, retirements, etc. We bought a stadium on our credit card. Now we have to pay the balance off after we got demoted at our job.

However, You are correct that winning will help with small and mid tier donations.

Thanks for the info, had no idea the renovations weren't paid for, and there were bonds issued. Makes some of the teeth grinding between academia and the athletic program a little more understandable.

 

[Raisin_Cane]

Thanks for the info, had no idea the renovations weren't paid for, and there were bonds issued. Makes some of the teeth grinding between academia and the athletic program a little more understandable.

It wasn’t strictly athletic related problems. It was Stead and the powers at the time approving all sorts of building projects including the apartments, renovations to existing buildings, the new engineering buildings, and of course the biggest donation blunder the PAC.

 

[HuffyCane]

It wasn’t strictly athletic related problems. It was Stead and the powers at the time approving all sorts of building projects including the apartments, renovations to existing buildings, the new engineering buildings, and of course the biggest donation blunder the PAC.

Somewhat correct. Bonds were not issued for all of the projects. Some of the building was fully financed. Some it was partial and the amount of bonds as a percentage of overall financing, and whether those bonds were tied to student tuition revenue for repayment, varied. You can see the details over on the General Board. The unanswered question is whether TU will have sufficient funds ten years from now to maintain programming, expand when strategically sound, AND funds to refurbish or replace the apartments when they start to show disrepair. They look great now but nothing looks shabbier than aging housing units. And we’ve built them right on the “front door”. We made the same mistake with the basketball arena and were caught short on cash when some things needed to be upgraded. It took too long to get that problem fixed and will likely need similar renovations about the time the apartment go crappy.

All of that said, I don’t think there’s a single chance in 1000 that an IPF is built while Clancy/Leavitt is at the helm. Even if I still have cash left over from the powerball after Gold and LEC and I get back from Mexico and offer to pay for it all, they still wouldn’t be in position to accept it.

I suppose it’s possible if it becomes a multituse facility with academic offices and classrooms but then you are talking about a Lorton priced building with limited space near the stadium. But you are still going to have to divert substantial funds from the new media deal to maintain something like that, even if you can work out the donations and financing on the actual building, as well as the debt relief on existing obligations.