Coach Manning

[jwlineberger]

Hey Tulsa fans, a Wake Forest fan here.

I just wanted to get some thoughts from you all on Danny Manning. Wake is coming off of our worst stretch in program history under (maybe subjectively, but not really) one of the worst coaches to ever be a part of the college game, and who set our program back terribly. Manning, in his first year and the beginning of this season, hasn't done anything to warrant any truly dissenting feelings yet in Winston-Salem, but fans are starting to question a few things. I was hoping you could provide some insights.

First of all, how did you all feel about his recruiting? This is where we thought he would excel, and while he has brought in a pretty good 2015 class and a 2014 class that has outplayed their rankings, he has been missing a lot on the big time talent that we have gone after. This is partially due to the sad state of our program, but we were all excited about the hopeful jump in the recruiting rankings. We have not seen this so far. The 2016 class, as it sits now, is very Bzdelik-esque.

Secondly, what did you think about his in-game coaching? This has been the biggest complaint. We have been losing to less talented teams, and many point to Manning's odd subbing patterns and ineffective line ups. He has been giving bad players a lot of minutes, and refuses to give extended time to some of our better players. He also doesn't manage time outs well. What did you all think about Manning's rotations and lineups at Tulsa?

Thirdly, preparation. Our defense this year has been abysmal. I know that you guys had a big rise in defensive rankings between year one and year two, and that is something we were hoping for. Do you think he truly is a good defensive coach? Turnovers were a weakness on his Tulsa teams, and are now for Wake. I'd love thoughts on this as well.

Your team now looks very good so far, especially with the upset of Wichita State. How sad were you all to see Manning go? How do you think he compares to Haith?

I'd appreciate any input. Good luck with the rest of your season!

 

[soccrcubs7]

1. Manning's recruiting FOR THE MOST PART was a huge epic fail (I believe 3/5 he recruited are no longer here
2. Manning didn't seem that interested in being here a long time because he left us with a ton of seniors (way to balance out the classes)
3. His coaching seemed OK for the most part, but the year we went to the NCAA tourney with him, we weren't even in position for the postseason (even NIT) until our late season run.
4. Our defense probably looked good because we were in a pretty bad league, not the ACC like you guys.
5. I think we were down when he left, but Haith has seemingly installed a much better sytem for our players, and his recruiting on paper seems good so far.

 

[soccrcubs7]

Granted, I think Manning really preached defense, bc our players now are locking up teams so far.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Who?

It was pretty clear he wasn't the guy.

 

[soccrcubs7]

Don't think he ever really wanted to be at Tulsa. It was pretty clear he wasn't thinking long term or even past year 2.

 

[el duran]

1. Manning's recruiting FOR THE MOST PART was a huge epic fail (I believe 3/5 he recruited are no longer here
2. Manning didn't seem that interested in being here a long time because he left us with a ton of seniors (way to balance out the classes)
3. His coaching seemed OK for the most part, but the year we went to the NCAA tourney with him, we weren't even in position for the postseason (even NIT) until our late season run.
4. Our defense probably looked good because we were in a pretty bad league, not the ACC like you guys.
5. I think we were down when he left, but Haith has seemingly installed a much better sytem for our players, and his recruiting on paper seems good so far.

Manning did sign Shaq Harrison, Rashad Ray, TK Edogi and Marquel Curtis. He wasn't Bill Self or even Woj on the recruiting trail but "huge epic fail" is a bit strong. He was a solid in game bench coach.

 

[tufan56]

Hey Tulsa fans, a Wake Forest fan here.

I just wanted to get some thoughts from you all on Danny Manning. Wake is coming off of our worst stretch in program history under (maybe subjectively, but not really) one of the worst coaches to ever be a part of the college game, and who set our program back terribly. Manning, in his first year and the beginning of this season, hasn't done anything to warrant any truly dissenting feelings yet in Winston-Salem, but fans are starting to question a few things. I was hoping you could provide some insights.

First of all, how did you all feel about his recruiting? This is where we thought he would excel, and while he has brought in a pretty good 2015 class and a 2014 class that has outplayed their rankings, he has been missing a lot on the big time talent that we have gone after. This is partially due to the sad state of our program, but we were all excited about the hopeful jump in the recruiting rankings. We have not seen this so far. The 2016 class, as it sits now, is very Bzdelik-esque.

Secondly, what did you think about his in-game coaching? This has been the biggest complaint. We have been losing to less talented teams, and many point to Manning's odd subbing patterns and ineffective line ups. He has been giving bad players a lot of minutes, and refuses to give extended time to some of our better players. He also doesn't manage time outs well. What did you all think about Manning's rotations and lineups at Tulsa?

Thirdly, preparation. Our defense this year has been abysmal. I know that you guys had a big rise in defensive rankings between year one and year two, and that is something we were hoping for. Do you think he truly is a good defensive coach? Turnovers were a weakness on his Tulsa teams, and are now for Wake. I'd love thoughts on this as well.

Your team now looks very good so far, especially with the upset of Wichita State. How sad were you all to see Manning go? How do you think he compares to Haith?

I'd appreciate any input. Good luck with the rest of your season!

At the time of his departure I think in general most of us were bummed to see him go, though most also became bitter about him leaving so quickly. He had just led us to our first NCAA tournament appearance in 10 years and had basically the entire roster returning the next year.

I always thought his in game coaching was a strength of his, particularly when it came to switching defenses (man to zone, vice versa etc...) at the right time. We really improved defensively under Manning, a lot of our current roster became great defenders under his watch.

Overall I think he was a solid coach for us, but he definitely left a bad taste in our mouths with his abrupt departure and poor recruiting.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

I think we all expected recruiting to be his strength (esp big men) but that fell short of expectations. I thought game management exceeded expectations and he made great strides in defensive play.

I will echo the late recruiting gems he found in his first year. Don't know where we would be without those young men. Was glad he held onto Woj's three recruits when he was hired too.

He def left us in a better place and I was disappointed he just wasn't that into us.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

I'm not sure I was bitter when he left...just surprised that it was so soon and his stock could have been a lot higher after another season or two. Wake wasn't a dream job kind of step and I think it probably hurts his career in the short term. Maybe long term too.

Also on the defense question...he had the talent to take it up a notch already IMO. Shaq is SO long and Ray is just a pest. Brandon had great instincts but needed refining to not foul like crazy. Woodard has great instincts on where to be for steals and rebounds too. Dre was the one who didn't improve like we thought he would as the center under Manning but he's playing with a lot more confidence overall under Haith.

On the flip side, our offense was pretty atrocious at times...

 

[TU_BLA]

I can agree. His in game coaching and adjustments defensively were his strong suit and a stark contrast to his predecessor here, who made almost no in game adjustments and his version of big offensive possession was give the ball to Clarkson and let him dribble for 25-30 seconds (or Uzoh or Hurtt). Manning's overall recruiting was a little bit of a disappointment considering his reputation at Kansas. He added some late guys when he was hired, some of them were probably considered fringe. Harrison, IMO, ended up being an absolute steal and under Haith's tutelage (and probably that of Kim English and Shea Seals), he is becoming a solid well-rounded player. I think Haith's system fits this makeup of the team better than Manning's.

No knock on Wake as it is a great school, but you're in the same boat as Tulsa in terms of academic restrictions and trying to recruit against Duke, UNC, NCSt, etc. in the ACC. IMO, Wake will struggle to rise above #7 in the ACC with the quality of programs in that league with the addition of Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame on top of the traditional powers mentioned previously. On top of that, the guys who can really recruit usually have dynamic personalities as well and I never felt Manning really had a dynamic personality that really drew individuals in. His college and NBA legacies are certainly appealing, his knowledge of the game as well. Heck, combine Manning's coaching abilities with Josh Pastner and you have the perfect coach. Pastner has the engaging personality (although most of is in Tulsa think he's a clown) and his recruiting record shines because of it (but he can't coach himself or his team out of a Wheaties box).

Good luck. Personally I think Wake jumped on Manning 2 years too early for a major rebuilding project. He is still in his head coaching infancy and needs to hone his craft a bit more.

 

[ctt8410]

If it makes you feel better, he was 27-28 here until halfway through his second year. People were starting to sour until he ran off 11 straight wins to end the season.

 

[jwlineberger]

Thanks a lot for all of the responses. This has been great. I am hopeful that coach can live up to hid reputation as a defensive minded coach and will start to manage games more consistently.

From a recruiting standpoint, all three of our guys in last year's class were better than advertised. We are not sure if the staff has an eye for under the radar talent or if this was just an anomaly. We hope it's legit since our 2016 class looks pretty bad on paper. The consensus on Manning's recruiting seems fairly negative, but was this something you all saw at all with Manning during his time there?

 

[TU_BLA]

He grabbed some under the radar guys when he got here. One was 2nd team all AAC last year and will push for 1st team this year. Not too bad.

Hate to say it for Wake fans, but there's not likely a Tim Duncan, Chris Paul, or even a Mugsy Bogues coming to Winston/Salem anytime soon. Those type of kids are one and doners these days and Calipari has the market cornered on those guys. He promises them they will never have to go to class.

 

[jwlineberger]

He grabbed some under the radar guys when he got here. One was 2nd team all AAC last year and will push for 1st team this year. Not too bad.

Hate to say it for Wake fans, but there's not likely a Tim Duncan, Chris Paul, or even a Mugsy Bogues coming to Winston/Salem anytime soon. Those type of kids are one and doners these days and Calipari has the market cornered on those guys. He promises them they will never have to go to class.

The number one player in the country was in our own back yard and eventually chose Duke over Wake Forest, so it's hard to argue that point. I do think that a good coach at Wake should be capable of picking up a few guys each year ranked in the top 50 to top 75 that can be solid four year guys. Our current freshmen were four stars that seem to fit that mold. We all thought that the 2016 class would be another step up, but were disappointed.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

Maybe I'm not reading that right but it seems that Manning not closing out a top recruit vs Duke proves BLA's point precisely.

Just pretend he said Coach K instead. Cal was just an example re: elite players in 2015.

 

[jwlineberger]

Maybe I'm not reading that right but it seems that Manning not closing out a top recruit vs Duke proves BLA's point precisely.

Just pretend he said Coach K instead. Cal was just an example re: elite players in 2015.

Sorry, I didn't phrase that very clearly -- meant that I agree. We are not going to be competing with UK or Duke for top 5 players anytime soon.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

We hoped for, but didn't expect four and five star players, but I myself, expected a four star big man. I expected that his prowess in bringing along big men would swing a four star recruit our way. Alas it did not. We did not even see a dominant big man. We had some decent bigs, but they were long and athletic, and didn't have the muscle to be dominant.

 

[I.I.]

Oddly enough, compared to some of the WF thoughts on Danny, I thought he was an excellent bench coach and made great adjustments but failed severely in recruiting bigs. By the way how is our Florida PG that committed to Tulsa and then left with Danny?

 

[TUBballJunkie]

I was wondering the same thing about him, II.

 

[el duran]

I was wondering the same thing about him, II.

Wilbekin has played well for Wake.