Challenging the election.

[TU_BLA]

I am not a political person nor really interested in being involved in "how" one gets into power. I am a trained and practicing behavioral scientist. Instead I have always looked first at honesty and character. From that lense, I look at the Republicans in 4 groups now.

1. Principled Resisters - Kasich is #1 in this group because he was morally consistent from the beginning. I changed my registration to Independent when it became clear that Trump would be the nominee mostly because so few people acted as Kasich did. Although he had a dalliance with Trump for the cabinet job, Romney is a close second here. Jeff Flake is another. These are the kinds of people that would motivate me to join a political party again if they were part of a center-right effort.
2. Moderate Distancers - This would be people like Ben Sasse who played along but never embraced Trump too warmly. Not delighted with them, but would be OK with them in the team.
3. Late Comers - This is the bulk of the Senate such as McConnell. Glad they turned yesterday, but hard to see them being invited.
4. Trumpists - People who due to power or principle held up the electoral counting. They can go to hell.

I liked Kasich and was hoping he would win the GOP nomination in 2016 as I was pretty sure I would have voted for him over HRC. I disagree with his political viewpoint on abortion but he was so more central than any of the other candidates. Flake is spineless. He may be more moderate but he never spoke up until after he left. Same with Paul Ryan in WI. They both left political life rather than stand up for their beliefs and those of the constituents that elected them. Is anyone really surprised that Arizona went blue this time around. Let's be honest, they had elected 2 moderate senators for years in Flake and McCain. McSally was appointed after McCain died and never won an election. Arizona now has 2 Democratic Senators. It is seeing the same shift that Colorado did about 10 years ago.

Each of the 13 Senators who started this will all be primaried by more moderate GOP and attacked for their roles in what happened yesterday. They will forever be tied to the chaos Trump created in our nation. And the Dems are going to have a field day should they make it out of their primaries. (I guess it's only 12 since Loeffler got her ass kicked in Georgia on Tuesday).

The next shift from red to blue will be Texas. The exploding tech sectors in the major cities will bring younger people to live in that state and individuals who tend to vote for Democrats...plus with the voter turnout success that Stacey Abrams showed is possible in Georgia, you will have influencers in Texas who will push hard in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio to not only get people registered but to show up for all elections now and they have the ability to demonstrate their vote counts and means something.

 

[HuffyCane]

I am a trained and practicing behavioral scientist.

I’m sure you find all of us on here fascinating. Indeed, am I a pawn? Did you create this board?

 

[drboobay]

I’m sure you find all of us on here fascinating. Indeed, am I a pawn? Did you create this board?

I will have more to say when I have access to a keyboard. In summary though, many would consider ME a pawn

 

[drboobay]

I usually work with corporations and to a lesser degree government entities. My team develops assessment systems involving all kinds of testing - intellectual, personality, physical, job simulations - to make selection and promotion decisions. Thus many with other kinds of social or behavioral science backgrounds might think of me as a "pawn" or "sellout" at times. But we are all about merit and workforce quality.

I cannot help but analyze Trump and politicians with the same perspective, or even to make my voting decisions with that same perspective - meaning, what do we know about leadership in the literature and in practice, and who aligns best with what we know. This led me to abandon the Republican party in 2016 when it became clear who would be the nominee. And from my angle, yesterday's debacle was a not-too-shocking outcome of putting that much power in the hands of somebody who obviously had little self awareness/self monitoring ability and clearly sociopathic tendencies and limited intelligence.

I have no grand social agenda, left or right. Just recognize that things can get screwed up pretty bad with poor leadership.

 

[URedskin54]

I usually work with corporations and to a lesser degree government entities. My team develops assessment systems involving all kinds of testing - intellectual, personality, physical, job simulations - to make selection and promotion decisions. Thus many with other kinds of social or behavioral science backgrounds might think of me as a "pawn" or "sellout" at times. But we are all about merit and workforce quality.

I cannot help but analyze Trump and politicians with the same perspective, or even to make my voting decisions with that same perspective - meaning, what do we know about leadership in the literature and in practice, and who aligns best with what we know. This led me to abandon the Republican party in 2015 when it became clear who would be the nominee. And from my angle, yesterday's debacle was a not-too-shocking outcome of putting that much power in the hands of somebody who obviously had little self awareness/self monitoring ability and clearly sociopathic tendencies and limited intelligence.

I have no grand social agenda, left or right. Just recognize that things can get screwed up pretty bad with poor leadership.

I did some limited coursework in Organizational Behavior and one of the things that always stuck with me was when we discussed personality profiles of different types of leaders. Ever since then I’ve tried to actively push myself away from liking any kind of charismatic leader, especially if they manage to make me feel any kind of way emotionally.

 

[drboobay]

I did some limited coursework in Organizational Behavior and one of the things that alway stuck with me was when we discussed personality profiles of different types of leaders. Ever since then I’ve tried to actively push myself away from liking any kind of charismatic leader, especially if they manage to make me feel any kind of way emotionally.

We are all human and vulnerable to some degree. It requires a lot of energy and focus to avoid falling for these deceptions and many are unable, unwilling, or uninterested in that investment.

Side note that a similar level of scrutiny is needed when consuming news nowdays. It is almost a full time job to be alert to deceptions, intended or otherwise.

 

[HuffyCane]

I did some limited coursework in Organizational Behavior and one of the things that always stuck with me was when we discussed personality profiles of different types of leaders. Ever since then I’ve tried to actively push myself away from liking any kind of charismatic leader, especially if they manage to make me feel any kind of way emotionally.

I don’t know if it’s still true, but the intelligence community used to recruit a lot of people out of TU who excelled at that course. You’d spend your days in Langley piecing together intelligence reports and open source media to try to build a profile on how certain leaders or future leaders will react to certain situations. Seems like a fantastically interesting and equally boring career.

 

[aTUfan]

There is some statistical data that raise a red flag. I just don't see Biden ever getting more votes than bho.

 

[drboobay]

All I can say to that is #goTU without sounding condescending.

 

[rivalcane]

They spent 2 years as a minority party in both houses of Congress. 2 more of the years were spent trying the case against the president which was legitimate, but the same spineless senators from this afternoon saved his bacon.

the mueller investigation was initiated with a fake document and investigated with bias; as documented in emails, depositions and testimony.

The impeachment was based on some third party statement. The charges were an extrapolation and a juxtaposition of the actual statements in the phone call. and the outcome was predetermined and conducted by a biased body.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

This led me to abandon the Republican party in 2015 when it became clear who would be the nominee. And from my angle, yesterday's debacle was a not-too-shocking outcome of putting that much power in the hands of somebody who obviously had little self awareness/self monitoring ability and clearly sociopathic tendencies and limited intelligence.

Amen

 

[Gmoney4WW]

The charges were an extrapolation and a juxtaposition of the actual statements in the phone call. and the outcome was predetermined and conducted by a biased body.

Can you even accurately define all the three dollar words you used here.

 

[drboobay]

the mueller investigation was initiated with a fake document and investigated with bias; as documented in emails, depositions and testimony.

The impeachment was based on some third party statement. The charges were an extrapolation and a juxtaposition of the actual statements in the phone call. and the outcome was predetermined and conducted by a biased body.

You may be surprised to get this reply but I agree with much of what you have written here. But it is absolutely irrelevant to my post about Trump and his disgraceful behavior from day one on the scene.

 

[TUMe]

A Congressional Police Officer has died from violence at the Capitol Riot.

 

[astonmartin708]

A Congressional Police Officer has died from violence at the Capitol Riot.

Bludgeoned with a fire extinguisher in the name of Donald Trump and tyranny.

 

[aTUfan]

You may be surprised to get this reply but I agree with much of what you have written here. But it is absolutely irrelevant to my post about Trump and his disgraceful behavior from day one on the scene.

True.

 

[HuffyCane]

I think the statute is on point. If that call isn’t an attempt to change the outcome of an election (“go find 11,000 votes”), then I don’t know what would be. As with a lot of federal law, an attempt can also be a criminal act. Likewise, there are other state statutes involved.

I believe this is the entry point, not the end analysis. Trump made dozens of calls (if not more) like this. Are there other tapes?

The best argument I have heard so far is that the same Nixon era DOJ policy which prevents prosecution of a President in office would prevent prosecution of this. That isn’t a law. Likewise, a “self pardon” is untested. We don’t know how any of this plays out. Anyone that says they do is lying.

I have heard that Biden doesn’t want to spend his time in office dealing with this. But I think he should. So much of what Trump has done directly violates state and federal law. The law matters to me more than the political side. We can’t allow people to run roughshod over the law.

Your statement about defamation is mostly a non sequitur, but since you bring it up: 1) there is a statute of limitations and no requirement to immediately bring a civil lawsuit and 2) there are state statutes which make defamation a crime in addition to a civil cause of action.

I think we will see state criminal investigations and perhaps charges in various states for conspiracy to interfere with the civil rights of voters who participated in the 2020 general election. He can’t pardon himself from those charges. I investigated election fraud professionally. Later I prosecuted it. Put people in jail for it. Prison for a few. It exists. But the proof you have to have of intent is very very high. For the statutes you are quoting, you need proof of state of mind and knowledge of the illegality of your acts. That’s a steep hill to climb here. Those elements aren’t present with conspiracy. And you can bring in evidence of why the law was passed and how the President’s conduct might be similar to those abuses during Jim Crow. That’s the safer and best charge for the jury.

It’s starting to leak that there were multiple calls to multiple states by multiple people. Not just the President. Should be interesting as more of the people on the other end of those calls, some of whom were flattered by the calls and eager to help, seek to distance themselves from the behavior or blow the whistle to make a name for themselves.

Stay tuned.

 

[Gold*]

I think we will see state level tax evasion charges in about 11-12 days. That’s one part of the government you don’t piss off.

 

[rivalcane]

if you poke a bear enough time, at some point he quits growling and decides to attack.

 

[URedskin54]

if you poke a bear enough time, at some point he quits growling and decides to attack.

“We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.”

-Ronald Reagan


“People were mean so I hurt a bunch of people” is never going to fly with me and it shouldn’t with you

 

[TUMe]

if you poke a bear enough time, at some point he quits growling and decides to attack.

Or someone who has the IQ of a bear.

 

[rivalcane]

I think we will see state level tax evasion charges in about 11-12 days. That’s one part of the government you don’t piss off.

do you think that a cpa/tax firm would prepare returns with illegal data.

 

[Gold*]

do you think that a cpa/tax firm would prepare returns with illegal data.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahabaha

 

[aTUfan]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahabaha

View embedded media

I said illegal. I read an article in Money magazine. They presented tax info about a family to a number of cpa/tax accountants. The results ranged from the family owing lots to they got a large refund.

 

[Gold*]

I said illegal. I read an article in Money magazine. They presented tax info about a family to a number of cpa/tax accountants. The results ranged from the family owing lots to they got a large refund.

No.

 

[aTUfan]

No.

View embedded media

Yes. I believe the article was written by Sylvia Porter, a financial advisor. It points out how vague and subject to interpretation some of the tax laws are. Even the professionals don't always agree

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Yes. I believe the article was written by Sylvia Porter, a financial advisor. It points out how vague and subject to interpretation some of the tax laws are. Even the professionals don't always agree

Does your doctor carry 30 year old magazines?

 

[Gold*]

Yes. I believe the article was written by Sylvia Porter, a financial advisor. It points out how vague and subject to interpretation some of the tax laws are. Even the professionals don't always agree

 

[HuffyCane]

View embedded media

Is that one of the lizard people?

 

[rivalcane]

Does your doctor carry 30 year old magazines?

no. I read the article 30 years ago.

 

[Gold*]

Is that one of the lizard people?

I believe it’s a very ripe lime. Which can cause you to believe in Q. You may not get scurvy, but is that better than being dumb enough to believe in Q?

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Yeah, I think I'd mention the article was MORE than 30 years old. She died around 1990.(Porter)

 

[rivalcane]

my point is that tax law is not an exact science; then and now..

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Oh, so that was your point.

It was so unclear, thanks for clarifying.

 

[watu05]

Half of Republicans believe false accounts of deadly U.S. Capitol riot: Reuters/Ipsos poll

Half of Republicans believe false accounts of deadly U.S. Capitol riot-Reuters/Ipsos poll

Since the deadly Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, former President Donald Trump and his Republican allies have pushed false and misleading accounts to downplay the event that left five dead and scores of others wounded. His supporters appear to have listened.

flip.it

 

[aTUfan]

You get a clean election when you have a clean system.