Another Massive Factory Missed in Tulsa

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

Tesla, Panasonic, Volkswagen.

We have offered up close to 1,000,000,000 in incentives.

Why do we keep losing? At some point, it has to be about more than money, right ?

What are those things? Could these be some of them?

1. Given what our governor says about climate and renewable energy, do you think that has issues?

2. Do you think the constant blood letting related to education kills us ?

3. Do you think our legislature is front page nightmare ?

4. Does our workforce suck ?

You all bitch about a whole lot of things on this thread but this is a lot closer to us than so many of it.

 

[lawpoke87]

I’m more of a glass half full guy on this topic. We lose a bid to Canada. Were we out bid by Wichita. Austin is a tough competitor. Oklahoma has a sound strategic plan in place to attract industry. A plan which now includes financial incentives. The fact we are now making it to the Final Cut shows progress. Hopefully we win the prize sooner than later. Oklahoma is moving in the right direction here.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Tesla, Panasonic, Volkswagen.

We have offered up close to 1,000,000,000 in incentives.

Why do we keep losing? At some point, it has to be about more than money, right ?

What are those things? Could these be some of them?

1. Given what our governor says about climate and renewable energy, do you think that has issues?

2. Do you think the constant blood letting related to education kills us ?

3. Do you think our legislature is front page nightmare ?

4. Does our workforce suck ?

You all bitch about a whole lot of things on this thread but this is a lot closer to us than so many of it.

On #1, one of the main reasons stated is this,

• Widely decarbonized power mix (share of CO2-free generation at ~92%)

I'm guessing his policies on climate change and renewable energy is a major block to our efforts for a battery plant. Don't see him changing his stance on that, no matter what the Economic Development Select Committee finds.

 

[lawpoke87]

On #1, one of the main reasons stated is this,

• Widely decarbonized power mix (share of CO2-free generation at ~92%)

I'm guessing his policies on climate change and renewable energy is a major block to our efforts for a battery plant. Don't see him changing his stance on that, no matter what the Economic Development Select Committee finds.

Not in an O&G producing state. At least not in 2023. Interesting that no state in the US won that bid. There will be other opportunities. Need to keep the line in the water. Getting lots of bites

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Not in an O&G producing state. At least not in 2023.

What does that have to do with it? Still not close to 92% decarbonized power mix.

 

[lawpoke87]

What does that have to do with it? Still not close to 92% decarbonized power mix.

Because our state is still dependent on the production and use of fossil fuels. Am I reading the definition of “decarbonized power mix” incorrectly ?

I’m going to walk back my comment a bit after a little research. Oklahoma produced over 41% of its electricity from wind. One of the highest percentages in the country. Having no nuclear does hurt us. We have issues elsewhere with out carbon footprint but we have made great strides with wind power

State Electricity Generation Fuel Shares

Percent U.S. electricity generated by nuclear energy within the borders of each state.

www.nei.org

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Because our state is still dependent on the production and use of fossil fuels. Am I reading the definition of “decarbonized power mix” incorrectly ?

Texas is an oil & gas producing state, and I'm sure they are not close to 92%. They got Tesla, but I'm sure that was due to other factors. And I'm sure that Elon Musk was not as concerned with that as Volkswagen was, or Panasonic for that matter. You don't have to be an O&G producing state to be dependent on O&G. That just doesn't make sense to me, on stating whether you are an O&G producing state or not. I would think an O&G producing state would be more inclined to be dependent, if anything.

 

[lawpoke87]

Texas is an oil & gas producing state, and I'm sure they are not close to 92%. They got Tesla, but I'm sure that was due to other factors. And I'm sure that Elon Musk was not as concerned with that as Volkswagen was, or Panasonic for that matter. You don't have to be an O&G producing state to be dependent on O&G. That just doesn't make sense to me, on stating whether you are an O&G producing state or not. I would think an O&G producing state would be more inclined to be dependent, if anything.

Curious. Why is our rating low? Assuming it is. Certainly doesn’t appear to be related the production of electricity.

 

[TU 1978]

You should be on your knees daily thanking god that Tesla’s Ugly Ass Truck Factory went somewhere else. It remains to be seen if they’ll ever make it to market.

 

[lawpoke87]

You should be on your knees daily thanking god that Tesla’s Ugly Ass Truck Factory went somewhere else. It remains to be seen if they’ll ever make it to market.

Prototypes are built and being tested. Factory is built and functionally. Production set to begin this year. Why the hell wouldn’t we want one of the top vehicle manufacturing companies in the world in our state?

 

[TU 1978]

Prototypes are built and being tested. Factory is built and functionally. Production set to begin this year. Why the hell wouldn’t we want one of the top vehicle manufacturing companies in the world in our state?

🤣🤣🤣

How many recalls does it take before you drop the “top vehicle manufacturing companies” BS?

Man Accidentally Drove Away in Someone Else’s Tesla Using the Car’s App

The two Tesla reportedly looked very similar, but that shouldn't have been enough for the app to open either car.

jalopnik.com

 

[lawpoke87]

🤣🤣🤣

How many recalls does it take before you drop the “top vehicle manufacturing companies” BS?

Recalls are a sore subject for me right now as my Ford and Jeep are both in the shop for multiple recalls….and they don’t even have the new technology excuse of EVs. My F250 had three alone.

I’ll ask again….why would we not want an auto manufacturing plant in Oklahoma of an auto maker who sold 1.3M units last year ?

 

[drboobay]

I think we have both education and workforce issues here. It is a tight labor market and I would bet that there is concern over attracting folks to fill the professional jobs at the plant.

Pryor is not Tulsa either. Not even in the MSA as I recall.

 

[lawpoke87]

I think we have both education and workforce issues here. It is a tight labor market and I would bet that there is concern over attracting folks to fill the professional jobs at the plant.

Pryor is not Tulsa either. Not even in the MSA as I recall.

Those would be legitimate concerns for a plant in Pryor imo. I do believe we could attract quality workers to Tulsa. Pryor might be a stretch. Oklahoma did rank among the fastest growing states in terms of economic and population growth in 2022. People are moving here and businesses are growing. We are doing better than most.

 

[drboobay]

Those would be legitimate concerns for a plant in Pryor imo. I do believe we could attract quality workers to Tulsa. Pryor might be a stretch. Oklahoma did rank among the fastest growing states in terms of economic and population growth in 2022. People are moving here and businesses are growing. We are doing better than most.

OKC is growing much faster than Tulsa. Tulsa city proper has been losing a bit of population. Tulsa MSA is growing but not nearly like OKC MSA.

 

[lawpoke87]

Looks the opposite to me 🤷‍♂️. Am I misreading the numbers ?

Tulsa Metro Area Population 1950-2023

Chart and table of population level and growth rate for the Tulsa metro area from 1950 to 2023. United Nations population projections are also included through the year 2035.

www.macrotrends.net

Oklahoma City Metro Area Population 1950-2023

Chart and table of population level and growth rate for the Oklahoma City metro area from 1950 to 2023. United Nations population projections are also included through the year 2035.

www.macrotrends.net

 

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

Texas is an oil & gas producing state, and I'm sure they are not close to 92%. They got Tesla, but I'm sure that was due to other factors. And I'm sure that Elon Musk was not as concerned with that as Volkswagen was, or Panasonic for that matter. You don't have to be an O&G producing state to be dependent on O&G. That just doesn't make sense to me, on stating whether you are an O&G producing state or not. I would think an O&G producing state would be more inclined to be dependent, if anything.

Actually, Texas producers more renewable gigawatts than any other state. Their renewables account for nearly 30% of their state. Across the US, renewable utility scale projects by far the majority.

I am not sure when you read about CA they include houses. When you go out there, virtually every house seems to have it now.

 

[drboobay]

Well you got me. I am on a plane and not planning to dig in deeper right now.

Do you know how the city populations changed from 22 to 23? Tulsa go down again?

 

[drboobay]

L

Well you got me. I am on a plane and not planning to dig in deeper right now.

Do you know how the city populations changed from 22 to 23? Tulsa go down again?

Let me answer my own question. Looks like city population is trending up again after a short dip. Hope that sustains.

 

[drboobay]

+hopefully once we build out utilities at the Inola site we might see more success since it is Tulsa metro proper.

 

[HuffyCane]

I tried to move a 200 FTE business to Owasso that does servicing contracts in support of a Fortune 500 manufacturer.

My personal experience was moving a business to Oklahoma was Byzantine compared to Texas and Florida. The unnecessary red tape was out of control. I also ran into a lot of “you have to know someone to get that done without it costing you a fortune.” Tulsa’s business leaders I meet with for preliminary discussions came off insular and self serving.

Ultimately, the program went to a company in Utah because of two reasons: Oklahoma‘s antiquated workers comp and tax structure and concerns about workforce abilities due to the widespread availability and usage of cannabis.

 

[drboobay]

There is a lot of auto manufacturing in the south now - Mississippi and Alabama for example. Not exactly progressive states. I have no idea about their workers comp or tax structure though.

 

[lawpoke87]

There is a lot of auto manufacturing in the south now - Mississippi and Alabama for example. Not exactly progressive states. I have no idea about their workers comp or tax structure though.

Makes sense considering the population movement trends from north to south.

Southern states grew fastest in 2022, Census data shows

Southern states as a whole grew by 1.1%, driven largely by both domestic and international migration.

thehill.com

 

[HuffyCane]

There is a lot of auto manufacturing in the south now - Mississippi and Alabama for example. Not exactly progressive states. I have no idea about their workers comp or tax structure though.

Really, the question really came down to: "Do we want our names on heavy machinery manufactured for America's soldiers to be crafted and assembled by people who are/might be stoned? Do we want to take the chance that we can't find enough people at the right price who can pass the drug tests? Are there cheaper alternatives without these unnecessary risks? We probably could have taken the time and expense to get the tax rebates to make the money work and hired locals to get us through the red tape. Oklahoma probably, maybe, will come to the same conclusion that Montana and to a lesser extent, Colorado finally realized. The pot thing has a lot of downsides that nobody wants to talk about. Its an opportunity to expand the tax base, but the juice likely isn't worth the squeeze.

 

[lawpoke87]

Really, the question really came down to: "Do we want our names on heavy machinery manufactured for America's soldiers to be crafted and assembled by people who are/might be stoned? Do we want to take the chance that we can't find enough people at the right price who can pass the drug tests? Are there cheaper alternatives without these unnecessary risks? We probably could have taken the time and expense to get the tax rebates to make the money work and hired locals to get us through the red tape. Oklahoma probably, maybe, will come to the same conclusion that Montana and to a lesser extent, Colorado finally realized. The pot thing has a lot of downsides that nobody wants to talk about. It’s an opportunity to expand the tax base, but the juice likely isn't worth the squeeze.

My office smells like a dispensary at times. It is what it is. Lots of young people are taking CBDs. The requirements to get a card in Oklahoma are downright silly. Everyone knows which doctors to see and what to say. I would be concerned as well if I were a manufacturing company. There’s a dispensary on every corner for a reason. Lots is users.

 

[HuffyCane]

My office smells like a dispensary at times. It is what it is. Lots of young people are taking CBDs. The requirements to get a card in Oklahoma are downright silly. Everyone knows which doctors to see and what to say. I would be concerned as well if I were a manufacturing company. There’s a dispensary on every corner for a reason. Lots is users.

If I was going to invest in Oklahoma right now, I would open a dispensary inside of another dispensary to try to entice people to buy from me and beat the wait from the line out the door.

 

[lawpoke87]

If I was going to invest in Oklahoma right now, I would open a dispensary inside of another dispensary to try to entice people to buy from me and beat the wait from the line out the door.

Something interesting re grow and dispensary facilities, title companies will not insure these facilities. As a result, acquisitions or construction of these type of facilities are either cash based or through lenders which do not require title insurance….lenders which will hold their own paper.

 

[HuffyCane]

Something interesting re grow and dispensary facilities, title companies will not insure these facilities. As a result, acquisitions or construction of these type of facilities are either cash based or through lenders which do not require title insurance….lenders which will hold their own paper.

And by that you mean straw entities controlled by international cartels operating within the United States. The cannabis economy is/was, amongst other things, a massive money laundering operation. But hey, it created a bunch of small businesses we can tax, so good, right?

 

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

Those would be legitimate concerns for a plant in Pryor imo. I do believe we could attract quality workers to Tulsa. Pryor might be a stretch. Oklahoma did rank among the fastest growing states in terms of economic and population growth in 2022. People are moving here and businesses are growing. We are doing better than most.

I think this is, unfortunately, entirely because of OKC.

 

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

I think people are making too much about the stoned deal. You act like the whole population just walked in stoned all day. It's ridiculous. Our friggin legislature doesn't shut up about it. People having cards doesn't make them 24/7 users. It's ridiculous to think so.

 

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

Looks the opposite to me 🤷‍♂️. Am I misreading the numbers ?

Tulsa Metro Area Population 1950-2023

Chart and table of population level and growth rate for the Tulsa metro area from 1950 to 2023. United Nations population projections are also included through the year 2035.

www.macrotrends.net

Oklahoma City Metro Area Population 1950-2023

Chart and table of population level and growth rate for the Oklahoma City metro area from 1950 to 2023. United Nations population projections are also included through the year 2035.

www.macrotrends.net

Unfortunately, I think most of the population growth has come in OKC 500k. That isn't much compared to a Utah 1.1m persay or a place like a Texas 9m(austin 1.1) or GA 2.6M

Oklahoma isn't doing the right things. Sorry folks. It is time to start being reflective.

 

[lawpoke87]

I think people are making too much about the stoned deal. You act like the whole population just walked in stoned all day. It's ridiculous. Our friggin legislature doesn't shut up about it. People having cards doesn't make them 24/7 users. It's ridiculous to think so.

I can only speak about the people who work at my company. The ones I know who have cards partake on a daily basis in most cases. Now I have know idea how stoned they are from day to day. Probably don’t want to know. The amount of CBD products being sold in the state relative to our population tells me there is a problem there.

 

[lawpoke87]

Unfortunately, I think most of the population growth has come in OKC 500k. That isn't much compared to a Utah 1.1m persay or a place like a Texas 9m(austin 1.1) or GA 2.6M

Oklahoma isn't doing the right things. Sorry folks. It is time to start being reflective.

Did you even look at the links I posted regarding population growth of the Tulsa and OKC metro areas?

Disagree regarding Oklahoma not doing the right things. We now have a strategic plan in place with financial incentives. Oklahoma continues to outpace the majority of other states in population growth. Progress is being made and the population growth shows it.

 

[astonmartin708]

I can only speak about the people who work at my company. The ones I know who have cards partake on a daily basis in most cases. Now I have know idea how stoned they are from day to day. Probably don’t want to know. The amount of CBD products being sold in the state relative to our population tells me there is a problem there.

I had a work colleague who was the most talented engineer we had on staff. He had back problems and multiple back surgeries… he partook daily but he didn’t do so during working hours and I never perceived that it effected the quality of his work… in fact it probably would have been more effected if he were having to use prescription medication to deal with the back pain.

Of course I’m of the perspective that employees should be allowed to have a beer at lunch, but if their drinking affects their work or the workplace environment, then they should suffer the consequences.

 

[lawpoke87]

I had a work colleague who was the most talented engineer we had on staff. He had back problems and multiple back surgeries… he partook daily but he didn’t do so during working hours and I never perceived that it effected the quality of his work… in fact it probably would have been more effected if he were having to use prescription medication to deal with the back pain.

Of course I’m of the perspective that employees should be allowed to have a beer at lunch, but if their drinking affects their work or the workplace environment, then they should suffer the consequences.

I completely agree. Still not a fan of the office smelling like a dispensary but as long as it doesn’t affect one’s work performance to each his own.

 

[HuffyCane]

I had a work colleague who was the most talented engineer we had on staff. He had back problems and multiple back surgeries… he partook daily but he didn’t do so during working hours and I never perceived that it effected the quality of his work… in fact it probably would have been more effected if he were having to use prescription medication to deal with the back pain.

Of course I’m of the perspective that employees should be allowed to have a beer at lunch, but if their drinking affects their work or the workplace environment, then they should suffer the consequences.

Coors used to serve beer at lunch - until somebody killed a bunch of people with a forklift.

 

[Clong83a]

I can only speak about the people who work at my company. The ones I know who have cards partake on a daily basis in most cases. Now I have know idea how stoned they are from day to day. Probably don’t want to know. The amount of CBD products being sold in the state relative to our population tells me there is a problem there.

The CBD stuff doesn't contain THC, from what I understand. So it isn't something used to get high. My mom uses CBD lotion for sore muscles, and she it pretty much a teetotaler. So I don't know if CBD products are really a good metric for determining drug abuse.


Anyway, recruitment can be difficult if you require negative drug tests, and for government subcontracts you very well might.

But I think this is actually an argument for ditching a lot of those standards in the workplace. Nobody cares if you smoke weed anymore, just don't show up to work high and it shouldn't be an issue.

The fact that we don't really have an intoxication test for weed like we do with alcohol is a problem, but I think it is mostly an issue for DUIs. In the workplace, if someone is blazing up in on the loading docks, or has an obvious drug abuse issue, it shouldn't be an issue to fire them the same way you would fire an alcoholic or pill popper that was letting their problem interfere with their work. I have sympathy for addicts, but I don't owe them a job under my projects if they can't get it done.

For security clearances and the like, I understand it as a reasonable litmus test for trustworthiness. It is still against federal law, so if you aren't willing to follow that federal law, why should you be trusted with following other laws regarding safeguarding classified materials?


But there will come a point where recruitment is hit hard enough in the government sector that changing the law is easier than trying to quixotically enforce a law that is becoming more and more obsolete and arcane by the day.

 

[lawpoke87]

I was referring to full spectrum CBD products.

 

[Clong83a]

I was referring to full spectrum CBD products.

Wow, I didn't know that was a thing under the "CBD" label. Shows you how hip and with it I am with this topic.

But that's another reason to avoid such products in my book. I don't need to fail a drug test and lose my clearance and career because I used the wrong CBD product.

 

[astonmartin708]

Coors used to serve beer at lunch - until somebody killed a bunch of people with a forklift.

Cool…. They must not operate heavy machinery in Germany…