And All the King's Men...

[astonmartin708]

Two "coffee boys" go down in one day...

Trump's (and evidently Hannity's) Personal Attorney
Trump's campaign chief

Add them to the list of Gates, Popodopolous, and Flynn just to name the biggies.

I think this one's different though. Cohen's plea directly implicates the President of The United States in illegal activity that occurred BEFORE his taking office... which would mean he's not protected from it by executive privilege (as we know from Bill Clinton's time in office). It's getting harder and harder to see how Trump sidesteps this and to top it all off he still has the Russian investigation looming.

I find it fitting that the another Republican president is going to get ousted for another campaign coverup. First it was stealing campaign secrets in a campaign that wasn't even competitive in the first place. Now it's paying off porn stars. The GOP at large needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask itself, "How / why do we keep falling for this?"

 

[aTUfan]

Does this make a connection between Trump and Russian Colusion.

 

[astonmartin708]

Does this make a connection between Trump and Russian Colusion.

Why does that matter. It is a crime unrelated to the larger crime Trump may or may not (probably did) commit.

 

[cmullinsTU]

I think this one's different though. Cohen's plea directly implicates the President of The United States in illegal activity that occurred BEFORE his taking office

From a PR perception I agree 100%. From a legal perspective it does not, he didn’t name Trump explicitly and from what I’ve gathered there’s not yet enough evidence to prove Trump actually told him to go through with it.

One important piece too is that his plea did not include working with the FBI. Which, seems rather odd that they’d agree to the plea and to not include that.

 

[aTUfan]

After Mueller is done with the King, will he start investigating the Queen?

 

[Gmoney4WW]

From a PR perception I agree 100%. From a legal perspective it does not, he didn’t name Trump explicitly and from what I’ve gathered there’s not yet enough evidence to prove Trump actually told him to go through with it.

One important piece too is that his plea did not include working with the FBI. Which seems rather odd that they’d agree to the plea and to not include that.

I believe I heard he wanted 3 years jail time and they(the FBI) wanted 4 years and 2 mo. Seems like a silly thing to not come to an agreement over.

 

[astonmartin708]

From a PR perception I agree 100%. From a legal perspective it does not, he didn’t name Trump explicitly and from what I’ve gathered there’s not yet enough evidence to prove Trump actually told him to go through with it.

One important piece too is that his plea did not include working with the FBI. Which, seems rather odd that they’d agree to the plea and to not include that.

That doesn't mean there won't be a case made against Trump in the near future.

 

[lawpoke87]

You’re not going to charge the POTUS for his attorney paying hush money to a porn star he banged years before. Now Russian collusion is another story altogether. Still waiting on any evidence of that.

There’s no way imo that Mueller uses Cohen to prosecute Trump after the press conference I just wintnesswf where they went after his credibility and character. Would make zero sense.

 

[aTUfan]

How does paying hush money to prostitutes translate to colusuin with the Russians?

 

[astonmartin708]

You’re not going to charge the POTUS for his attorney paying hush money to a porn star he banged years before. Now Russian collusion is another story altogether. Still waiting on any evidence of that.

There’s no way imo that Mueller uses Cohen to prosecute Trump after the press conference I just wintnesswf where they went after his credibility and character. Would make zero sense.

Why not? We know that it was illegal. As we've seen from today's admission of guilt.

 

[astonmartin708]

How does paying hush money to prostitutes translate to colusuin with the Russians?

WHO CARES?

If Trump went out and pushed a guy in a wheelchair over then took his wallet and kicked him in the face... people would say... "But this doesn't prove collusion!"

Collusion isn't the only illegal thing Trump is capable of committing. Today's news has literally nothing to do with collusion... that doesn't make them less illegal.

 

[lawpoke87]

Why not? We know that it was illegal. As we've seen from today's admission of guilt.

You don’t destroy the accusers credibility if you plan on using him as a witness in a prosecution.

 

[astonmartin708]

You don’t destroy the accusers credibility if you plan on using him as a witness in a prosecution.

That may be true, but it won't matter if they DON'T find collusion with Russia. Then Trump got away with major campaign finance violations if nothing else(which seem like they continue to go on, based on Amarosa's own tapes) which should have been prosecuted.

 

[aTUfan]

WHO CARES?

If Trump went out and pushed a guy in a wheelchair over then took his wallet and kicked him in the face... people would say... "But this doesn't prove collusion!"

Collusion isn't the only illegal thing Trump is capable of committing. Today's news has literally nothing to do with collusion... that doesn't make them less illegal.

Colusion was what Mueller was charged to investigate. Now he is just throwing mud at a wall to see what sticks.

Not exactly how Columbo would approach it. More like Bernie Fife.

 

[astonmartin708]

Colusion was what Mueller was charged to investigate. Now he is just throwing mud at a wall to see what sticks.

Not exactly how Columbo would approach it. More like Bernie Fife.

That's why the Cohen thing wasn't pursued by Mueller, it was referred to another entity as it was outside his charge.

 

[aTUfan]

This is like an offensive lineman getting called for holding, but the ref blames the quarterback.

 

[cmullinsTU]

Colusion was what Mueller was charged to investigate. Now he is just throwing mud at a wall to see what sticks.

Not exactly how Columbo would approach it. More like Bernie Fife.

No, it isn’t like Barney Fife

 

[cmullinsTU]

This is like an offensive lineman getting called for holding, but the ref blames the quarterback.

No, not at all

 

[Clong83a]

You’re not going to charge the POTUS for his attorney paying hush money to a porn star he banged years before. Now Russian collusion is another story altogether. Still waiting on any evidence of that.

There’s no way imo that Mueller uses Cohen to prosecute Trump after the press conference I just wintnesswf where they went after his credibility and character. Would make zero sense.

We are definitely still waiting on the Russian collusion. But I also think it might make sense we haven't seen that yet. If you are Mueller, you are going to want to play your cards as close to the vest as possible. If you can take down all Trump's associates (and maybe get them to cooperate in a larger case) without actually going there and being forced to reveal evidence/sources, then why would you? Just charge them on their own criminality, and keep your powder dry for as long as possible.

I'm not saying Mueller has an iron-clad collusion case against Trump. He could very well have nothing at all. I'm just saying it wouldn't necessarily be inconsistent with what we see so far. Of course, I am not an attorney, so I'll defer to you if my assumptions are way off-base.

 

[aTUfan]

We are definitely still waiting on the Russian collusion. But I also think it might make sense we haven't seen that yet. If you are Mueller, you are going to want to play your cards as close to the vest as possible. If you can take down all Trump's associates (and maybe get them to cooperate in a larger case) without actually going there and being forced to reveal evidence/sources, then why would you? Just charge them on their own criminality, and keep your powder dry for as long as possible.

I'm not saying Mueller has an iron-clad collusion case against Trump. He could very well have nothing at all. I'm just saying it wouldn't necessarily be inconsistent with what we see so far. Of course, I am not an attorney, so I'll defer to you if my assumptions are way off-base.

If he had anything linking Trump to Russian Colusion, he would have leaked it already. This man has a leaking problem even a depends can't help.

 

[aTUfan]

I bet you could dig into most politicians and find this sort of campaign finance, 3 card monte.

 

[astonmartin708]

I bet you could dig into most politicians and find this sort of campaign finance, 3 card monte.

So do it. It's not ok to give people hush money. If you are found doing it (or instructing someone to do it on your behalf), you should be punished. Simple as that. This isn't jay walking or a speeding ticket... it's an actual serious crime.

 

[astonmartin708]

Seems to me like Mueller is going at this like our investigators used to go after the organized crime families. (That's basically what the Trump family and their associates are).

Trump is basically what happens when Fredo becomes the Godfather instead of Michael.

 

[Clong83a]

I bet you could dig into most politicians and find this sort of campaign finance, 3 card monte.

Maybe so. Just look at Duncan Hunter, who was (allegedly) using campaign funds to pay for dental work and family vacations. But also not the point. Corruption is a problem in our politics and it needs to be rooted out. Find me a crooked Dem with the same amount of evidence against them and I'll be first in line to string them up. Corruption is not a partisan issue, and we shouldn't excuse it from anyone at all.

If you want to argue that prosecutors are looking too closely at Rs and not Ds, well okay, but I'm just happy for every rotten apple thy throw out. Don't worry, if we stop tolerating this behavior, the D's will get theirs too eventually. I have no doubt there are some very crooked D's out there. Again, it's not a partisan issue.

 

[lawpoke87]

So do it. It's not ok to give people hush money. If you are found doing it (or instructing someone to do it on your behalf), you should be punished. Simple as that. This isn't jay walking or a speeding ticket... it's an actual serious crime.

Was the payment illegal or the fact that you're required to report the payment to comply with federal campaign finance laws illegal?

 

[aTUfan]

So do it. It's not ok to give people hush money. If you are found doing it (or instructing someone to do it on your behalf), you should be punished. Simple as that. This isn't jay walking or a speeding ticket... it's an actual serious crime.

NDAs ate legal documents

 

[Watu3]

I don't recall anyone here complaining here about the years and years of investigations and Congressional scrutiny given HRC. Recall that she testified repeatedly under oath before Republican led committees and was grilled for three hours by the FBI about emails and Bengazi. Yet Trump hides behind Guilianni and a passel of lawyers who are terrified that he will even be questioned.

It should not be a partisan issue, but Trump has successfully made it into one.

 

[aTUfan]

Maybe so. Just look at Duncan Hunter, who was (allegedly) using campaign funds to pay for dental work and family vacations. But also not the point. Corruption is a problem in our politics and it needs to be rooted out. Find me a crooked Dem with the same amount of evidence against them and I'll be first in line to string them up. Corruption is not a partisan issue, and we shouldn't excuse it from anyone at all.

If you want to argue that prosecutors are looking too closely at Rs and not Ds, well okay, but I'm just happy for every rotten apple thy throw out. Don't worry, if we stop tolerating this behavior, the D's will get theirs too eventually. I have no doubt there are some very crooked D's out there. Again, it's not a partisan issue.

You want a d to throw under the bus, i give you hrc, etal.

 

[astonmartin708]

Was the payment illegal or the fact that you're required to report the payment to comply with federal campaign finance laws illegal?

Just guessing... both?

 

[astonmartin708]

NDAs ate legal documents

Largely unenforceable.

 

[lawpoke87]

Just guessing... both?

I’m pretty sure I can enter into a confidentiality agreement with another party and give them consideration for entering into said agreement. The problem arises when it’s done during an election campaign and not reported pursuant to campaign financing laws. At least that’s my understanding.

 

[cmullinsTU]

I’m pretty sure I can enter into a confidentiality agreement with another party and give them consideration for entering into said agreement. The problem arises when it’s done during an election campaign and not reported pursuant to campaign financing laws. At least that’s my understanding.

I thought the consideration given as part of the confidentiality agreement was out of campaign financing, which I think is illegal.

I could be mistaken but that’s how I interpreted what I read (ok skimmed) yesterday after the news came out on the verdicts.

@aTUfan stop with the partisan BS. As an American you should want the FBI to do an investigation and ensure Russia didn’t interfere with our election. That is a SERIOUS PROBLEM that can impact our country for the future. We get it, you like Trump, that’s fine, and think this is a witch hunt. But don’t let that blind you to the fact the investigation is still ongoing because more and more evidence is being found. Perhaps Trump was not at all involved, I don’t care, but whoever was involved needs to be tried and held accountable.

 

[aTUfan]

And the reverse to that is, you do some work for someone. Instead of direct payment, they contribute to your campaign.

 

[aTUfan]

I thought the consideration given as part of the confidentiality agreement was out of campaign financing, which I think is illegal.

I could be mistaken but that’s how I interpreted what I read (ok skimmed) yesterday after the news came out on the verdicts.

@aTUfan stop with the partisan BS. As an American you should want the FBI to do an investigation and ensure Russia didn’t interfere with our election. That is a SERIOUS PROBLEM that can impact our country for the future. We get it, you like Trump, that’s fine, and think this is a witch hunt. But don’t let that blind you to the fact the investigation is still ongoing because more and more evidence is being found. Perhaps Trump was not at all involved, I don’t care, but whoever was involved needs to be tried and held accountable.

Not being partisan. If the fbi can prove that Trump violated the law, then he should be removed from office, immediately.

Mannifort is a bad dude. He got what he deserved.

 

[lawpoke87]

I thought the consideration given as part of the confidentiality agreement was out of campaign financing, which I think is illegal.

I could be mistaken but that’s how I interpreted what I read (ok skimmed) yesterday after the news came out on the verdicts.

@aTUfan stop with the partisan BS. As an American you should want the FBI to do an investigation and ensure Russia didn’t interfere with our election. That is a SERIOUS PROBLEM that can impact our country for the future. We get it, you like Trump, that’s fine, and think this is a witch hunt. But don’t let that blind you to the fact the investigation is still ongoing because more and more evidence is being found. Perhaps Trump was not at all involved, I don’t care, but whoever was involved needs to be tried and held accountable.

I could be wrong but I didn’t think the money was paid from the campaign but since it was paid by a candidate who was running for office to protect his public image any payment would be considered part of the overall campaign and subject to campaign financing laws regardless of the origins of those funds. As such, the payment should have been disclosed. Like I said that could be incorrect though.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

If he had anything linking Trump to Russian Colusion, he would have leaked it already. This man has a leaking problem even a depends can't help.

That's BS and u are too simple/troll to realize. He is very careful, whatever he allows to leak out is not protected.

 

[Watu3]

Apart from legality is anyone bothered by the President's vehement denials followed by a slow string of admissions about his lies as the truth came out?

 

[astonmartin708]

I’m pretty sure I can enter into a confidentiality agreement with another party and give them consideration for entering into said agreement. The problem arises when it’s done during an election campaign and not reported pursuant to campaign financing laws. At least that’s my understanding.

I'm pretty sure the actual nature of the agreement is illegal as far as campaign finance goes as well... you can't just use campaign money for anything you want. There are rules as to what it can be used for.

 

[cmullinsTU]

Apart from legality is anyone bothered by the President's vehement denials followed by a slow string of admissions about his lies as the truth came out?

Absolutely. But I’ve been bothered by that about Trump since he announced his candidacy.

 

[Watu3]

A graphic of the Cohen transactions:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...hael-cohen-fits-into-stormy-daniels-case.html