World's Happiest Countries

[WATU2]

Evidently high tax rates, government run health insurance and Bernie Sander's type of "socialism" do not destroy happiness in other countries.

""There is a very strong message for my country, the United States, which is very rich, has gotten a lot richer over the last 50 years, but has gotten no happier," said Professor Jeffrey Sachs, "

 

[TUBballJunkie]

Isn't it a given that money doesn't buy happiness?

I was pretty happy as a broke six year old.

It's what you make of it.

 

[noble cane]

I guess if you don't mind the government owning your ass and want to be a perpetual child, then socialism is your best choice.

 

[URedskin54]

If you're referring to Scandinavian countries, that's pretty much a myth caused by cultural differences in answering surveys. They actually aren't particularly happy. You're also less likely to be happy if you dream big rather than accept mediocrity.

 

[TUMe]

Here is this weeks happiness forecast . Increasing happiness towards Friday afternoon with periods of dread on Sunday evening . A decreasing chance of happiness on April 15 . The long-term happiness forecast is delayed due to troubles with the happiness projection equipment . 17% of the American population refused to have their happiness measured using the latest equipment . Some parents have refused to allow their children to be tested for happiness because they fear that they might be traumatized by discovering that their friends are happier .

Results from some countries were thrown out due to evidence of doping people with happy pills .

 

[TUBballJunkie]

You're also less likely to be happy if you dream big rather than accept mediocrity.

Good point. Low expectations are easy to surpass and feel successful.

I feel like social media has also taken keeping up with the Joneses in the U.S. to new heights.

 

[WATU2]

If you're referring to Scandinavian countries, that's pretty much a myth caused by cultural differences in answering surveys. They actually aren't particularly happy. You're also less likely to be happy if you dream big rather than accept mediocrity.

Denial is the first stage of dealing with a terminal illness.

 

[WATU2]

These posts one again confirm the inability of Americans to even consider much less learn from what works outside the tiny bubble they live in. At least there's Trump to rely on.

 

[URedskin54]

Denial is the first stage of dealing with a terminal illness.

I didn't expect a thoughtful response. You never disappoint. There actually are cultural differences that cause people in these countries to refuse to admit being unhappy when they are surveyed. And there are other reasons for differences as well. What to make of the fact that religious people in America tend to be happier than non-religious people? Are they living in a different America where people have better lives or is there just something that makes them more content with life? The myth of the Scandinavian utopia never goes away.

 

[TUMe]

These posts one again confirm the inability of Americans to even consider much less learn from what works outside the tiny bubble they live in. At least there's Trump to rely on.

You publish an unreferenced statement that people are happier in other countries without any evidence or any metric to prove it. Then you expect everyone to accept what you say and if we do not then we live in a tiny bubble . Your post was an absolute joke. Some doctor that I'm not familiar with, maybe you are, has said that people are happier elsewhere . How do you measure happiness who decides whether happiness in New Zealand matches the standard of happiness in Egypt . It seems that you think anything you say should be taken as gospel .

 

[noble cane]

The myth of the Scandinavian utopia never goes away.

I have met a lot of scandanvian oilfield workers in my life... Most of them were trying to get work visas and American citizenship...most complained about their tax rates and the lack of opportunity for personal advancement..

 

[URedskin54]

Makes sense. Those societies look down on competition and high achievement

 

[URedskin54]

Idk but they do have some of the highest rates of anti-depressant use

 

[WATU2]

No country is ideal, not one, but some countries do things better than the US does. Why not look at them? Ike did. He saw how effective the German Autobahn system was during WW2, so he launched our modern interstate system in the 50's when the US approach was small town to small town. What else could we learn? Germany's apprentice system for manufacturing? France's medical history on a card for medical technology? What Scandinavian 'socialism' means?

 

[rabidTU]

I get the idea that WATU is now open to moving to the island paradise of Cuba. OK. I'm good with that! Bon Voyage!

Sorry. Couldn't resist. As Bonney Fwank once said - "I Apowagise!"

 

[TUMe]

Part of the reason that those countries have it so nice is that they don't speak Russian. From the end of World War II until the fall of the USSR they were under the umbrella of NATO. We all agree that an attack on one is an attack on all. Stalin and Khrushchev didn't have a great fear of the Danish military. The bill was not small for the 7th Army spending 50 years in Germany, along with Air Force and Navy. One of the greatest acts of kindness in the 20th Century was the Marshall Plan.

If we had been selfish or less security conscious Europe might not be as well off and Social Security and Medicare might have been a much better deal and yes we might have had universal coverage.

The Europeans are our good friends and long time allies. But remember that Ford made a lot of Jeeps* and trucks. We were turning out airplanes from our capitalist plants faster than the Germans and Japs could shoot them down. [Roosevelt told Marshall he want 50,000 planes the next year and Marshall said I don't have 50,000 pilots and to train them I'd have to pull pilots. The point is America had a great industrial base from our capitalist system.]

*Yes, I know Overland had the patent on Jeeps but Ford actually had to make several times more because they had the manufacturing capacity.

 

[WATU2]

I didn't expect a thoughtful response. You never disappoint. There actually are cultural differences that cause people in these countries to refuse to admit being unhappy when they are surveyed. And there are other reasons for differences as well. What to make of the fact that religious people in America tend to be happier than non-religious people? Are they living in a different America where people have better lives or is there just something that makes them more content with life? The myth of the Scandinavian utopia never goes away.

And you have evidence of this outside of your own personal beliefs?

 

[WATU2]

Part of the reason that those countries have it so nice is that they don't speak Russian. From the end of World War II until the fall of the USSR they were under the umbrella of NATO. We all agree that an attack on one is an attack on all. Stalin and Khrushchev didn't have a great fear of the Danish military. The bill was not small for the 7th Army spending 50 years in Germany, along with Air Force and Navy. One of the greatest acts of kindness in the 20th Century was the Marshall Plan.

If we had been selfish or less security conscious Europe might not be as well off and Social Security and Medicare might have been a much better deal and yes we might have had universal coverage.

The Europeans are our good friends and long time allies. But remember that Ford made a lot of Jeeps* and trucks. We were turning out airplanes from our capitalist plants faster than the Germans and Japs could shoot them down. [Roosevelt told Marshall he want 50,000 planes the next year and Marshall said I don't have 50,000 pilots and to train them I'd have to pull pilots. The point is America had a great industrial base from our capitalist system.]

*Yes, I know Overland had the patent on Jeeps but Ford actually had to make several times more because they had the manufacturing capacity.

QED, there is nothing to be learned by seeing what works in other counties?

 

[URedskin54]

And you have evidence of this outside of your own personal beliefs?

There are plenty of articles out there, some from liberal sources and some that are still very flattering to those countries. Why should I provide them for you when you haven't sourced a thing? Try skepticism of your own beliefs and look it up on your own.

 

[lawpoke87]

Shouldn't we be evaluating larger more diverse countries and their systems of government when trying to compare the same to the U.S.? There are plenty of other examples of socialism and have been throughout history in countries much more similar to the U.S. in size, population, etc... Looking at the Scandinavian countries is nice but I don't see much of an apples to apples comparison.

 

[TUMe]

QED, there is nothing to be learned by seeing what works in other counties?

Sure you can see what works in other countries. You can also see what works in this country. Your original post was that they are happier than we are. You make the assumption that they are happier because they get free health care in exchange for higher taxes. They could be happier because they like fish for breakfast and it gives them better health. Maybe they are happier because they blab less of their personal business on Facebook. Maybe they are happier because they like their Fiords better than we like our Ford.

Cross cultures, nationalities, and experiences it's hard to measure happiness. Topless women, palm trees and great weather with no health care at all made Fletcher Christian happy in Tahiti. A Muslim becomes happier if he goes to Mecca. An American teenager is unhappy if they have never been to Disney World. You and I enjoy this on Crossfire [or we wouldn't be here year after year] some people would be very unhappy if compelled to read it. In fact, I don't know if the moderators still read here but if they do they are long suffering.

 

[WATU2]

There are plenty of articles out there, some from liberal sources and some that are still very flattering to those countries. Why should I provide them for you when you haven't sourced a thing? Try skepticism of your own beliefs and look it up on your own.

Always the answer when one has nothing. Weak.

 

[URedskin54]

Always the answer when one has nothing. Weak.

I'll give you publications to be nice. The Atlantic, NPR, Washington Post, The Guardian, a book titled The Almost Nearly Perfect People, The Boston Globe, The NY Post, The Weekly Standard and on and on. And you still have provided no sources of your own. Why are liberals so lazy?

 

[WATU2]

Sure you can see what works in other countries. You can also see what works in this country. Your original post was that they are happier than we are. You make the assumption that they are happier because they get free health care in exchange for higher taxes. They could be happier because they like fish for breakfast and it gives them better health. Maybe they are happier because they blab less of their personal business on Facebook. Maybe they are happier because they like their Fiords better than we like our Ford.

Cross cultures, nationalities, and experiences it's hard to measure happiness. Topless women, palm trees and great weather with no health care at all made Fletcher Christian happy in Tahiti. A Muslim becomes happier if he goes to Mecca. An American teenager is unhappy if they have never been to Disney World. You and I enjoy this on Crossfire [or we wouldn't be here year after year] some people would be very unhappy if compelled to read it. In fact, I don't know if the moderators still read here but if they do they are long suffering.

And maybe they are just happier? "It's hard to measure happiness" Why? You can just ask.

Our current politics reflect how Americans are a really happy lot? Trump and Bernie both are successful because most people are pleased with the way things are going? The vein of anger, violence and xenophobia that has overridden the establishment control of the Republican party is a reflection of how pleased people are with their lives? The violent confrontations at Trump rallies are a positive sign? Bernie's call for revolution and pointing out the economic inequities of the past 30 years is a smiley face?

Why is it that the idea that some people overseas may have found ways of living or have ideas that work from them, suddenly posters on this board are experts on why that can't be true? No data, no interest in learning, no curiosity, just a continual stream of rationalizations.

Innovative companies worry about the NIH (not invented here) syndrome destroying their creativity and success.

 

[lawpoke87]

Wouldn't China be the best comparison to the U.S. as to how socialism would work in a country with comparable economic numbers, land mass, military, etc...?

 

[TUMe]

Quoting Jeff Sachs for one sentence doesn't make something so. You do not stick to what you require from others. Why do people want to come to this country? Do they not expect to be happier here.

I guess one just walks up to a Swede, an Irishman, and Pole and asks each if they are at a 7.5 on a international happiness scale. Or maybe it is all nonsense. Maybe Germans are happier because they have world class beer.

 

[WATU2]

Wouldn't China be the best comparison to the U.S. as to how socialism would work in a country with comparable economic numbers, land mass, military, etc...?

Curious approach.

Why not look at countries, particularly, those that rank higher, and study, what they think works well, their people value most, or do differently from us in areas where we already know we need improvement? Heck it is what companies in the US do all the time. It is often called "bench marking" and the best here are happy to learn from the best in other countries. If it works in the private sector why not try it in other areas?

 

[TUBballJunkie]

Because things like life expectancy, workplace efficiency, productivity, etc etc are actually objective metrics.

What makes all people happy along with arbitrary self reporting is not.

 

[lawpoke87]

Curious approach.

Why not look at countries, particularly, those that rank higher, and study, what they think works well, their people value most, or do differently from us in areas where we already know we need improvement? Heck it is what companies in the US do all the time. It is often called "bench marking" and the best here are happy to learn from the best in other countries. If it works in the private sector why not try it in other areas?

I assume the same reason a large corporation looks at what other successful large companies do rather than the mom and pop shop down the street. Similar to TU looking at the models of other small private universities rather than a Texas or Ohio State. While its possible to come away with ideas from those places, looking at what works and doesn't work for similarly situated entities makes more sense imo as they are impacted by the same external and internal factors.

In my business, I can learn much more by studying the business models of successful small companies in my industry as we have similar resources, clients and limitations than I can by looking at national organzations. I'm not arguing that we shouldn't look at the models of the Scandinavian countries just that it's not an apples to apples comparison. China, Russia, etc.. are much more inline with our size and resources.

 

[WATU2]

Curious approach.
If it works in the private sector why not try it in other areas?

It's easy to criticize the government as being big and bureaucratic; it is. We like to claim the private sector can do it better, yes?

So why not do what the private sector does and scour the world for what works, especially when we know things aren't working well here?

 

[TUMe]

It's easy to criticize the government as being big and bureaucratic; it is. We like to claim the private sector can do it better, yes?

So why not do what the private sector does and scour the world for what works, especially when we know things aren't working well here?

So we know the private sector is doing things that "aren't working well here." "So why not do what the private sector does". Your convoluted logic paints you into a corner.

This is not a thread about happiness, it is just another pitch for single provider [government] insurance.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

What works for making people happy (and self reporting that happiness level) isn't something that can be measured and compared.

Having children makes some people "happy". Others don't want that. I love cats and they make me "happy". Other people think they're the worst. The mountains and snow make some people "happy", other people love warm climates. Tulsa basketball makes me "happy", watching boring golf makes other people "happy".

There is not right and wrong when it comes to "happy". This seems painfully clear.

 

[noble cane]

I always love the talk about the socialist paradises in Europe.... We could do the same thing here ... All it would take is opening up the eastern GOM, California coastline, ANWR and the East Coast to oil and gas exploration.

North Sea oil pays for their party.

 

[TUMe]

And you have evidence of this outside of your own personal beliefs?

I'm sorry, but you have presented no evidence yourself. One sentence from Jeff Sachs is not evidence. What study was this?

Professor Sachs is also a big proponent of foreign aid to end world poverty. I wonder about where all the money for his programs will come from.

 

[astonmartin708]

I always love the talk about the socialist paradises in Europe.... We could do the same thing here ... All it would take is opening up the eastern GOM, California coastline, ANWR and the East Coast to oil and gas exploration.

North Sea oil pays for their party.

North sea oil is on its last legs. It may pay for a couple of the country's programs, but places like France & Germany aren't really hamstrung by their dependence on the North Sea. Even the Netherlands has Shell who is international.

Mainly you'd be referring to the UK, Denmark, and Norway. But those aren't the only countries that have progressive social programs in Western Europe.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

So to be clear ...the stretch has become that socialized medicine and high taxes leads to increased "happiness" and if we had those things, people would be less unhappy, thus eliminating anger/racism/fear/hate/ignorance and the votes for Trump? Do I have that right?

 

[astonmartin708]

Since so many people are scrambling to get here any way they can, you would think here would be a happy place.

I haven't heard any evidence of this in recent years. People are struggling to get away from places with violence and poverty. (Mexico / Latin America, or Syria) for example. You don't hear of a ton of ethnic Europeans clamoring to get to the U.S. these days.

 

[astonmartin708]

So to be clear ...the stretch has become that socialized medicine and high taxes leads to increased "happiness" and if we had those things, people would be less unhappy, thus eliminating anger/racism/fear/hate/ignorance and the votes for Trump? Do I have that right?

It certainly makes life a bit easier. No more messing around with insurance companies + people actually being able to go to the doctor when they're sick, no more massive debts when you have major medical events.

Same thing for government funded universities, no more worrying about how you're going to pay for school... and once you get out you don't have to be in debt up to your eyeballs.

Of course you're right... your taxes go up. Is it worth it? That's what America has to decide.

As far as racism and social tension between economic classes, I'm not sure that is something that is 'solvable' per se. Europe certainly still has all those problems.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

But if you are angry about health insurance/bankrupt because of medical expenses you aren't in the Trump camp. I guess maybe you're angry that immigrants are using our healthcare but that's the opposite of giving it away to everyone.

This started out as a "these people are allegedly happy over here" statement and devolved to "support for Trump wouldn't exist if only we were Sweden".

 

[Gmoney4WW]

When I spent a year in Europe(1990) they had less severe problems with racism. Due to both of our backslides, we are in a nice competition now, but I still think we are winning.(ie we have more racism) Tension between classes has always been competitive between us. One thing I did get a 'feeling' for though was a more happy and easy going population. The people just seemed to have a better appreciation for all that was good in there lives and less tension over what was bad.

Yes this is anecdotal, and yes I can't prove it with facts and figures, but that is part of the reason an article on happiness is so God awful in it's arbitrary comparisons and conclusions. It's a you know it when you see it kind of thing, that is difficult to put into words. But if I were to make some guesses at what the reasons were I would not put health care in the top 5. What I would say is that it is a part of their fabric of life. Many individual threads are responsible for making a beautiful fabric, and no threads are vitally more important than the others for clothing your life.