Was it the Scheme or Less Talent-The 3-3-5 vs 4-2

[Oak775]

Tulsa‘s shift from the 3-3-5 to 4-2 will be interesting. Finding quality/premium defensive lineman has always been a challenge, and we’ll see what will happen from now till May with recruiting and the portal.

College Football viewers all over America watched TCU’s defense get torched. Was it the scheme? Bad alignments? Just physically being beat up front? I’d say the correct answer is D) All of the above.

As most TU fans know, TCU’s defensive coordinator is Joe Gillespie, a long time TU coach and DC.

If TU is going to transition this may be a good time. The defense graduated a lot of linebackers and had a portal transfer. With the 4-2, the burden of finding more “finished product” linebackers will be less. On the other hand, the demand for quality/defensive lineman will be greater. I look at the portal everyday, and it’s like an open bazaar. You’d better know the market and understand “value”. We’ll see. A hell of a lot of rocks have got to be turned over in very short order.

Bottom line? If we are going to make a change we have the scholarships available, and we can make the change in a disciplined and orderly way. This is not going to be, so far anyway, a dumpster fire.

The jury is still out. “We’ll see.“

 

[Henry Kendall]

You did listen to Coach G at the presser yesterday, didn’t you?

 

[lawpoke87]

Both. The 3-3-5 is designed to defend spread offenses and space. It’s always going to be somewhat vulnerable to pro style highly physical teams which utilize TE packages. Conversely, the 4-2 adds an D Lineman to help with the power run game at the expense of speed at the second level. Talent is almost always the determining factor regardless of scheme

 

[Hurricane Drummer II]

I thought we were keeping the 3-3-5?

 

[goldenhurricane2]

You did listen to Coach G at the presser yesterday, didn’t you?

Doesn’t look like it

 

[I.I.]

The strength areas of the team will determine the scheme after all signings are made. He is not married to a scheme.

 

[Hurricane Drummer II]

Either way, I don't care what he runs if he can keep us from getting skull dragged by Navy's option.

 

[Henry Kendall]

The strength areas of the team will determine the scheme after all signings are made. He is not married to a scheme.

You are way nicer and less snarky than me, I.I.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Tulsa‘s shift from the 3-3-5 to 4-2 will be interesting. Finding quality/premium defensive lineman has always been a challenge, and we’ll see what will happen from now till May with recruiting and the portal.

College Football viewers all over America watched TCU’s defense get torched. Was it the scheme? Bad alignments? Just physically being beat up front? I’d say the correct answer is D) All of the above.

As most TU fans know, TCU’s defensive coordinator is Joe Gillespie, a long time TU coach and DC.

If TU is going to transition this may be a good time. The defense graduated a lot of linebackers and had a portal transfer. With the 4-2, the burden of finding more “finished product” linebackers will be less. On the other hand, the demand for quality/defensive lineman will be greater. I look at the portal everyday, and it’s like an open bazaar. You’d better know the market and understand “value”. We’ll see. A hell of a lot of rocks have got to be turned over in very short order.

Bottom line? If we are going to make a change we have the scholarships available, and we can make the change in a disciplined and orderly way. This is not going to be, so far anyway, a dumpster fire.

The jury is still out. “We’ll see.“

We'll use a new scheme they invented in Tehas.

Is that up to proper snarkiness levels @Henry Kendall.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Either way, I don't care what he runs if he can keep us from getting skull dragged by Navy's option.

I'd prefer that, but if we win most of the rest of em, I don't mind.

 

[PiKA1000]

You did listen to Coach G at the presser yesterday, didn’t you?

You have a link handy?

 

[Gmoney4WW]

You have a link handy?

There is a thread on here, might be in Hurricane Alley. But you can go on the TU site, and click on Sports, Football. They will be in a scroll down, to the right of Hurricane Vision, with separate links to coach Wilson and the offensive and defensive coordinator's interviews.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

You have a link handy?

Wilson Presser (Alley)

 

[PiKA1000]

Wilson Presser (Alley)

My bad. I was thinking a different Coach G based on the topic.

 

[Li'l Eric Coley]

Man, that scheme is gonna be huge next year when we’re playing Georgia in the national championship.

 

[astonmartin708]

I still think we end up playing in the 4-2-5. After Guerreri (probably spelling that incorrectly, sorry) talked about using the best system for the players, he proceeded to talk about how he thought the 4-2-5 allowed the defense to give a wider range of defensive disguises and simplified things for his defense. I don't imagine he will work with a defensive scheme that he's completely unfamiliar with.

He's been in the 4-2-5 his entire career, and both he and Wilson spoke of how highly they thought of how it was run at OSU (both OSU's)

 

[Li'l Eric Coley]

Oh for crying out loud. Who gives a flying f***

 

[nevadanatural]

Oh for crying out loud. Who gives a flying f***

Is there an emoji for that?

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Is there an emoji for that?

 

[Li'l Eric Coley]

So much over analyzing. Seriously. Who the f*** cares?! Jesus H. If it says Tulsa on the jersey, that’s all that matters. Sorry to go all Rippin on every one.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

So much over analyzing. Seriously. Who the f*** cares?! Jesus H. If it says Tulsa on the jersey, that’s all that matters. Sorry to go all Rippin on every one.

I'm only interested in it, because it determines who we will be recruiting. A mix of DL and LB, or just DL.

 

[HuffyCane]

I’ll be really surprised if the base is anything other than a 3 man with a standup edge or tweener LB overhang on the outside.

So long as it isn’t the Todd Graham 2-2-7 “Nobody Tackles” defense we saw at times, I’m cool.

 

[TU65alum]

I’m for whatever works with our personnel.

 

[Henry Kendall]

I think we should run a 12-7-16. We would stop errbody

 

[Oak775]

Man, that scheme is gonna be huge next year when we’re playing Georgia in the national championship.

I wonder if Gillespie was thinking his new team was going to be playing for the national championship.

Crazier things have happened.

 

[Oak775]

You did listen to Coach G at the presser yesterday, didn’t you?

I was downtown and pitching a new multi purpose indoor arena. I didn’t have time to listen to the new coach “G”.

 

[TU_BLA]

I still think we end up playing in the 4-2-5. After Guerreri (probably spelling that incorrectly, sorry) talked about using the best system for the players, he proceeded to talk about how he thought the 4-2-5 allowed the defense to give a wider range of defensive disguises and simplified things for his defense. I don't imagine he will work with a defensive scheme that he's completely unfamiliar with.

He's been in the 4-2-5 his entire career, and both he and Wilson spoke of how highly they thought of how it was run at OSU (both OSU's)

There were a lot of times our 3-3-5 under Gillespie moved to a 4-2-5 based on what Zaven was doing. When he walked down to the end of the DL, it essentially became a 4-2-5 with 2 wide ILBs a little shaded to the opposite side of Zaven (because no one ran to his side). Honestly, the 4th DL/DE is going to morph a lot between true edge rusher and an OLB that drops into coverage based on situation. Think James Harrison or Von Miller (although he has been almost exclusively an edge rusher the last 3-4 years).

 

[Oak775]

Either way, I don't care what he runs if he can keep us from getting skull dragged by Navy's option.

Whenever TU plays Navy the old Navy head ball coach didn’t have to give a big Ra Ra pep talk. Just these words.

”Guys it’s party time this week. We’re playing the 3-3-5.”

All the 3-3-5 D’s have a “drug” problem when it comes to big tight end power offenses.

”They get drug up one side of the field and drug down the other.”

 

[Henry Kendall]

I was downtown and pitching a new multi purpose indoor arena. I didn’t have time to listen to the new coach “G”.

I too was at my day job, seeing patients. ‘Cane-man and others were gracious enough to post recordings.

 

[astonmartin708]

There were a lot of times our 3-3-5 under Gillespie moved to a 4-2-5 based on what Zaven was doing. When he walked down to the end of the DL, it essentially became a 4-2-5 with 2 wide ILBs a little shaded to the opposite side of Zaven (because no one ran to his side). Honestly, the 4th DL/DE is going to morph a lot between true edge rusher and an OLB that drops into coverage based on situation. Think James Harrison or Von Miller (although he has been almost exclusively an edge rusher the last 3-4 years).

Guerreri’s 4-2-5 did not seen to typically involve any stand up LB’s from what I have seen. It was a 4 man front with two DE’s in stances.

 

[lawpoke87]

Guerreri’s 4-2-5 did not seen to typically involve any stand up LB’s from what I have seen. It was a 4 man front with two DE’s in stances.

From Duke or Ohio State ?

 

[astonmartin708]

From Duke or Ohio State ?

Both lol. To clarify, I mean that it didn’t include stand up LB’s at the line of scrimmage unless showing extra pressure From the typical 4 man DL.

 

[Fmr'Cane16]

The irony is that an odd stack is a slight adjustment from an old 50 front 3-4 which the NFL has used as the primary run stop front for many years. Still only 3 D-lineman. The key is a war daddy at nose that can eat up both gaps while holding point and not allowing the lineman to climb to second level which frees up the linebackers to make plays.

Legit D-lineman and shut down corners are unicorns. They are very hard to find.

 

[astonmartin708]

The irony is that an odd stack is a slight adjustment from an old 50 front 3-4 which the NFL has used as the primary run stop front for many years. Still only 3 D-lineman. The key is a war daddy at nose that can eat up both gaps while holding point and not allowing the lineman to climb to second level which frees up the linebackers to make plays.

Legit D-lineman and shut down corners are unicorns. They are very hard to find.

The new (to us) 4-2-5 is basically just making a NFL nickel defense your base D in efforts of limiting the ability of the spread. It’s apparently susceptible to RPO’s and some iso type run schemes because it makes the second and level play instinctively rather than prescriptively.

 

[HuffyCane]

The irony is that an odd stack is a slight adjustment from an old 50 front 3-4 which the NFL has used as the primary run stop front for many years. Still only 3 D-lineman. The key is a war daddy at nose that can eat up both gaps while holding point and not allowing the lineman to climb to second level which frees up the linebackers to make plays.

Legit D-lineman and shut down corners are unicorns. They are very hard to find.

Not to mention a hybrid player that is big enough to run stop, quick and/or explosive enough to defeat the block of a HB/TE, and fast enough to cover a WR.

Or a free with the best brains and best range on the team.

 

[Lumpuckeroo]

Both. The 3-3-5 is designed to defend spread offenses and space. It’s always going to be somewhat vulnerable to pro style highly physical teams which utilize TE packages. Conversely, the 4-2 adds an D Lineman to help with the power run game at the expense of speed at the second level. Talent is almost always the determining factor regardless of scheme

The three down linemen was effective when we had Jaxon Player and Big Cat doing damage...
not so effective this year with lesser talent when the opposing QB had five seconds to scan
the receivers .

 

[lawpoke87]

The three down linemen was effective when we had Jaxon Player and Big Cat doing damage...
not so effective this year with lesser talent when the opposing QB had five seconds to scan
the receivers .

Yes. Players make a difference regardless of scheme.

 

[TU_BLA]

Not to mention a hybrid player that is big enough to run stop, quick and/or explosive enough to defeat the block of a HB/TE, and fast enough to cover a WR.

Or a free with the best brains and best range on the team.

Ed Reed...what you're saying is we need to go find the next Ed Reed

 

[TU_BLA]

Yes. Players make a difference regardless of scheme.

Yep. 2 seasons ago we had a 3 man front with Player, Stevenson, and Goodlow commanding double teams on almost every play. That freed up our LBs to do some serious damage vs the run or with one of them blitzing on pass plays. And if teams took their chances not doubling Jaxon Player then usually the play broke down.

 

[Oak775]

The irony is that an odd stack is a slight adjustment from an old 50 front 3-4 which the NFL has used as the primary run stop front for many years. Still only 3 D-lineman. The key is a war daddy at nose that can eat up both gaps while holding point and not allowing the lineman to climb to second level which frees up the linebackers to make plays.

Legit D-lineman and shut down corners are unicorns. They are very hard to find.

Finding that “monster” in the middle is a challenge. Moreover, finding “press coverage” corners is even more difficult. When you look at the portal you’ll find 5’10” 185 lb cornerbacks and 6’2” 285 lb defensive lineman all day long.