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Thoughts on DOGE?

Speaking of Doge....

Last week, Elon Musk indicated for the first time that his Department of Government Efficiency was falling short of its goal.

He previously said his budget-cutting team could reduce the next fiscal year’s federal budget by $1 trillion, and do it by Sept. 30, the end of the current fiscal year. Instead, in a Cabinet meeting Thursday, Musk said that he anticipated the group would save about $150 billion, 85% less than its objective.

Even that figure may be too high, according to a New York Times analysis of DOGE’s claims.

That’s because, when Musk’s group tallies up its savings so far, it inflates its progress by including billion-dollar errors, by counting spending that will not happen in the next fiscal year — and by making guesses about spending that might not happen at all.
It also doesn’t account for the value of the lost services to the American Public or the detriment of those lost services on various parts of the American economy.

Reminds me a lot of how Boeing and Intel were run for the past decade or so. Everything is so focused on trimming that they cut their own legs off.
 
Speaking of Doge....

Last week, Elon Musk indicated for the first time that his Department of Government Efficiency was falling short of its goal.

He previously said his budget-cutting team could reduce the next fiscal year’s federal budget by $1 trillion, and do it by Sept. 30, the end of the current fiscal year. Instead, in a Cabinet meeting Thursday, Musk said that he anticipated the group would save about $150 billion, 85% less than its objective.

Even that figure may be too high, according to a New York Times analysis of DOGE’s claims.

That’s because, when Musk’s group tallies up its savings so far, it inflates its progress by including billion-dollar errors, by counting spending that will not happen in the next fiscal year — and by making guesses about spending that might not happen at all.
that is still a lot of zeros
 
Speaking of food and the FDA, can someone explain why the FDA allows artificial ingredients in our food supply which countries like Canada and those in Europe ban?
Should have been outlawed long ago, but lobbyists are allowed too many liberties & rights. They are the ones who should have regulations put on them. But you are defending moves made against the agency by bringing up separate ideas as a fence once again, Apologist?

Every argument doesn't require a corresponding attack against that which is being attacked. Lots of things could be better about the agency, stricter regulations on preservatives for instance. That doesn't really have anything to do with cutting quality checks.
 
Should have been outlawed long ago, but lobbyists are allowed too many liberties & rights. They are the ones who should have regulations put on them. But you are defending moves made against the agency by bringing up separate ideas as a fence once again, Apologist?

Every argument doesn't require a corresponding attack against that which is being attacked. Lots of things could be better about the agency, stricter regulations on preservatives for instance. That doesn't really have anything to do with cutting quality checks.
Hard to actually comment on the story as it provided no factual information as to what the FDA yearly budget was being cut to. Does anyone have any exact figures ? I believe the budget was $7.2B this past year.

Do they really have to cut quality checks or did they pick an area they knew would cause the most alarm in hopes of restoring their funding ? One thing I’ve learned over the past few months is the absurd items we’re spending money on. Now if they actually won’t have enough money to adequately perform quality control then that funding should be reviewed. I have my doubts simply based on how budgets and appropriations have worked in this country for the better of the last 50 plus years
 
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Hard to actually comment on the story as it provided no factual information as to what the FDA yearly budget was being cut to. Does anyone have any exact figures ? I believe the budget was $7.2B this past year.

Do they really have to cut quality checks or did they pick an area they knew would cause the most alarm in hopes of restoring their funding ? One thing I’ve learned over the past few months is the absurd items we’re spending money on. Now if they actually won’t have enough money to adequately perform quality control then that funding should be reviewed. I have my doubts simply based on how budgets and appropriations have worked in this country for the better of the last 50 plus years
Now that's a more direct and laudable approach.

My problem is these are all small cuts that will not do any good to cutting the budget. If there is ANY, and I do mean any risk that a small budget cut they are making could have a negative effect on the American public, it should be thought about long and hard.(which they aren't doing) If the budget is still way over budget after 1001 tiny cuts to the budget, and they don't give those tiny cuts the thought necessary to avoid harm to the American public then I want them gone from decision making.

I'm tired of them making these tiny cuts without any thought, because it makes the maga feel like something is being done. No good comes from this.
 
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638199_A_Users_Guide_to_Restructuring_the_Global_Trading_System.pdf
I refuse to feel sorry for you sorry fux

I’ll give you some of the best advice you’ll ever get — Trump derangement syndrome is real. You can keep up with the baseless talking points & fume about the headlines you’re fed everyday, but tell me, why do you get upset if someone asks you “do you think people with Trump derangement syndrome know they’re deranged & suffering from mass formation psychosis on the verge of a psychotic break?”

The fact that you fail attribute someone provoking emotion within you when making an argument with which you agree to BLATANT MANIPULATION indicates that THEY have successfully manipulated your reality in a manner that I couldn’t do with a baseball bat.

You don’t wonder why they can’t give you the news about Trump straight; why they need you upset & angry about it every time you form your opinion @ file it into your little brain somewhere under “truth & facts?”

When I talk about spine, nerve, gumption, grit, overall awareness & confidence, these are things you should have developed even without being born with the intangibles - without the ice water that I feel everyday in every ounce of my existence, YOU NEED NOT BE BLESSED WITH THE JUICE!

But you can’t tell when someone is gassing you up because you love to hate or what I don’t know & don’t care but here are some more wins!


 
How many treasonous acts by Elon and his band of incels are you willing to accept? The whole lot of them should receive the appropriate punishment prescribed for treason.
 
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Now that's a more direct and laudable approach.

My problem is these are all small cuts that will not do any good to cutting the budget. If there is ANY, and I do mean any risk that a small budget cut they are making could have a negative effect on the American public, it should be thought about long and hard.(which they aren't doing) If the budget is still way over budget after 1001 tiny cuts to the budget, and they don't give those tiny cuts the thought necessary to avoid harm to the American public then I want them gone from decision making.

I'm tired of them making these tiny cuts without any thought, because it makes the maga feel like something is being done. No good comes from this.
What large cuts would you support? It’s fairly obvious we can’t continue this level of spending and be able to fund our social programs long term.
 
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What large cuts would you support? It’s fairly obvious we can’t continue this level of spending and be able to fund our social programs long term.
We've talked about the major programs that need intelligent cuts many times before. Why go over this again. You know which programs need major cuts. The cuts being made now will never encompass enough to bring spending down enough to make any real difference. You know that, why go over old topics for the 6th or 8th time. These tiny cuts will never amount to enough, even combined. Not going to cover comments made in the past over again. You've said you think they would make those cuts eventually, and you will wait on them. I think the wait will be eternal. This government is all show, and nothing real.
 
We've talked about the major programs that need intelligent cuts many times before. Why go over this again. You know which programs need major cuts. The cuts being made now will never encompass enough to bring spending down enough to make any real difference. You know that, why go over old topics for the 6th or 8th time. These tiny cuts will never amount to enough, even combined. Not going to cover comments made in the past over again. You've said you think they would make those cuts eventually, and you will wait on them. I think the wait will be eternal. This government is all show, and nothing real.
The current claim is $155B. How much of that you believe will likely depend on your political viewpoint. I think we all agree spending cuts are necessary. I think we can also agree that some of the items we were spending hudrends of millions of dollars on were absurd. Especially considering we were borrowing every cent to fund these programs. The question is will we see a slowdown in the growth of spending in fiscal 2026? For our fiscal stability….we better.

 
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The current claim is $155B. How much of that you believe will likely depend on your political viewpoint. I think we all agree spending cuts are necessary. I think we can also agree that some of the items we were spending hudrends of millions of dollars on were absurd. Especially considering we were borrowing every cent to fund these programs. The question is will we see a slowdown in the growth of spending in fiscal 2026? For our fiscal stability….we better.

You mention figures but rarely mention the significance of them. 155B if accurate (it is probably way over the real figure) is so insignificant to our budgetary problems it is not even funny. That's less than a penny to our budgetary problems. That is less than 1/100th of a % of our budgetary problems. It is probably much closer to a 1000th of a % of our budgetary problems. And they are risking damage to the education system, damage to the fda(food safety system) etc., etc. You can't ignore these large risks for such a paltry savings. It is beyond ridiculous. The risk is not worth the reward, especially with these dunces in charge of the system. And they are going after the low hanging fruit. Cuts will become harder as time passes.
 
You mention figures but rarely mention the significance of them. 155B if accurate (it is probably way over the real figure) is so insignificant to our budgetary problems it is not even funny. That's less than a penny to our budgetary problems. That is less than 1/100th of a % of our budgetary problems. It is probably much closer to a 1000th of a % of our budgetary problems. And they are risking damage to the education system, damage to the fda(food safety system) etc., etc. You can't ignore these large risks for such a paltry savings. It is beyond ridiculous. The risk is not worth the reward, especially with these bozos in charge of the system.
It’s been less than 90 days and budgets and appropriations were already complete for the current fiscal year. Are you serious with this ?

I agree we have massive budgetary issues. However, this is the first time since Clinton I’ve seen anyone address the same. I have a hard time taking seriously those who criticize yet pose no solutions to our current fiscal issues.
 
The current claim is $155B. How much of that you believe will likely depend on your political viewpoint. I think we all agree spending cuts are necessary. I think we can also agree that some of the items we were spending hudrends of millions of dollars on were absurd. Especially considering we were borrowing every cent to fund these programs. The question is will we see a slowdown in the growth of spending in fiscal 2026? For our fiscal stability….we better.

That website, and the associated cuts are crap and the people making them are con artists and swindlers. They’re paying Peter thiel way too much money for his mediocre software.

I know they just tried to sell me something I had already built for 5 times the price with a fancy wrapper on top.
 
That website, and the associated cuts are crap and the people making them are con artists and swindlers. They’re paying Peter thiel way too much money for his mediocre software.

I know they just tried to sell me something I had already built for 5 times the price with a fancy wrapper on top.
Like I initially said….ones trust in the state savings in the DOGE website will depend on their political leanings. Your response was more than predictable. As I said, we will know the 2026 spending figure
 
It’s been less than 90 days and budgets and appropriations were already complete for the current fiscal year. Are you serious with this ?

I agree we have massive budgetary issues. However, this is the first time since Clinton I’ve seen anyone address the same. I have a hard time taking seriously those who criticize yet pose no solutions to our current fiscal issues.
I added it at the last minute and you might not have read it, so I will reemphasize it in this post.

They are going after low hanging fruit, and the cuts will become much harder in the future. And they are risking a lot even with this low hanging fruit. I don't expect more cuts down the line, I expect less.(per the time allotted) The cuts will slow down. Posing solutions is just as hard for me as it will be for them. And they are 'supposedly' experts at it. (that would be funny if it weren't so dangerous) I am not an expert the same as the fact that they aren't. It will take experts working long and hard in their deliberations to come to wise decisions.

Except most of those wonks (experts) have been canned by this administration. It will be the idiot blind squirrels trying to come up with a solution. You have way more confidence in blind squirrels than I do. More time won't solve that dilemma. I don't have much faith in Musk's throw it against the wall and see if it sticks approach. That is obviously a dangerous approach in government. But what scares me even more, is who is behind Trump's second door, now that Musk is on his way out of so direct an influence of Doge.
 
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Like I initially said….ones trust in the state savings in the DOGE website will depend on their political leanings. Your response was more than predictable. As I said, we will know the 2026 spending figure
Your faith in those swindlers trying to make the best impression on the public, despite the truth would be amusing if it weren't so serious. Do you think Trump will even allow the truth of the matter to get out to the public if he can help it. You are blind to his lies? He has told enough of them that I wouldn't think you would trust him. People believe what they want to believe, I guess.
 
With MAGA and Trump determined to pass additional tax cuts along with increasing military spending, the whole idea of fiscal restraint is a joke. Add in the tarrif and trade chaos and the increasing likelihood of a recession and it goes beyond silly. As our reserve currency status is increasingly shaky, the costs of financing our debt will only go up.

 
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I wish we had an intelligent President or even semi intelligent President in office(George W for instance) trying to make the cuts that Trump is attempting.
 
With MAGA and Trump determined to pass additional tax cuts along with increasing military spending, the whole idea of fiscal restraint is a joke. Add in the tarrif and trade chaos and the increasing likelihood of a recession and it goes beyond silly. As our reserve currency status is increasingly shaky, the costs of financing our debt will only go up.

How can we continue to fight / fund wars and make defense cuts? Dumb post. Now eliminate the $150B going to Ukraine over the past few years and you probably will see a reduction in defense spending.
 
With MAGA and Trump determined to pass additional tax cuts along with increasing military spending, the whole idea of fiscal restraint is a joke. Add in the tarrif and trade chaos and the increasing likelihood of a recession and it goes beyond silly. As our reserve currency status is increasingly shaky, the costs of financing our debt will only go up.

Yeah I wasn't even addressing the income side of the equation. Tax cuts will completely outweigh present and many future cuts. And then there is the tariffs. If he ever intends to use these tariffs as more than a threat, they would bring in a bunch of money at the expense of our already tax burdened public, to extremes that they cannot handle. This would probably bring the tax burden on our citizens to more than Europe even pays. And we know this will cause a recession, in which things don't work according to plan in a non recessionary economy.

Those tariffs would have to be lifted for us to have any hope of extricating ourselves from the recession, even in a normal amount of time for the depth of recession. If they don't get lifted then who knows how long the recession would last. All bets are off at that point. It might just continue until they are lifted.
 
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How can we continue to fight / fund wars and make defense cuts? Dumb post. Now eliminate the $150B going to Ukraine over the past few years and you probably will see a reduction in defense spending.
That is so paltry an amount, 150B in comparison to our defense spending. There would be no cut in defense spending that would amount to anything. We could eliminate all our aid to foreign countries and it wouldn't amount to anything significant. I've gone over this before and you have already forgotten.
 
They came in talking a trillion $ reduction. Now that they are into the job, a trillion $ reduction has disappeared from their vocabulary.
 
They came in talking a trillion $ reduction. Now that they are into the job, a trillion $ reduction has disappeared from their vocabulary.
$1T was rainbows and unicorns. Now a $500B reduction in fiscal 2026 would be a huge step. Can we get there ?
 
That is so paltry an amount, 150B in comparison to our defense spending. There would be no cut in defense spending that would amount to anything. We could eliminate all our aid to foreign countries and it wouldn't amount to anything significant. I've gone over this before and you have already forgotten.
If you break it down into annual expenditures, and eliminate the amount we were already giving them before the war started...

It is more like 135B, not 150B. But we will do it both ways. 150B-1.5B(aid before war) = 148.5B or at 135B it sets at 133.5B. Divide those by 3 years(approx length of war) and that equals 44.5/49.5 per year. So without the war let's do an average of 47B compared to an annual military budget of around 825B. That would be approximately a 5.7% reduction in money spent. Of course we would still find a way to spend that money, but if you think a 6% reduction in military budget is more important than the mission of saving the Ukraine from being taken over by Russia, then it is not nearly as important to you as it is to me. If we had not gotten involved, Ukraine would no longer be a country, it would be part of Russia. Even the rare earth minerals are worth us getting involved, not to mention the moral ground of fighting for democracy on the edge of the Soviet Union.
 
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$1T was rainbows and unicorns. Now a $500B reduction in fiscal 2026 would be a huge step. Can we get there ?
I think 500B under this administration is just as much a pipe dream as a trillion. It will slow down, not speed up and they are nowhere near 155B now. They are probably at about 1/2 that at best, with great risk to the taxpayer of damage already done to our system.
 
I think 500B under this administration is just as much a pipe dream as a trillion. It will slow down, not speed up and they are nowhere near 155B now. They are probably at about 1/2 that at best, with great risk to the taxpayer of damage already done to our system.
We all better hope you’re wrong. Continuing $2T deficits isn’t sustainable. Drastic forced cuts are on the horizon if we don’t get our fiscal house in order
 
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We all better hope you’re wrong. Continuing $2T deficits isn’t sustainable. Drastic forced cuts are on the horizon if we don’t get our fiscal house in order
The recession will probably help extend our problem a little bit down the line.
 
Why would a reduction in tax revenue extend our ability to service our growing debt?
It wouldn't help with our present debt except that loan rates should drop. It all comes out in the wash with lower tax revenue though.
 
We all better hope you’re wrong. Continuing $2T deficits isn’t sustainable. Drastic forced cuts are on the horizon if we don’t get our fiscal house in order
The best way to cut deficits is to create economic growth. Would you be surprised if the deficit actually goes up as a percentage of the budget even after this round of cuts? I wouldn't.
 
It wouldn't help with our present debt except that loan rates should drop. It all comes out in the wash with lower tax revenue though.
Loan rates won't drop this time. Treasuries are not proving to be the economic safe-haven that they have been in the past.
 
Loan rates won't drop this time. Treasuries are not proving to be the economic safe-haven that they have been in the past.
I know we are living in strange times where certain rules aren't holding like they should, but I'll still assume this one holds. I'll believe that when we are in the middle of the recession and rates haven't dropped. Everything changes in a recession.
 
The best way to cut deficits is to create economic growth.
Maybe, but the ignored side of the US budget is the income side: taxes. Why do we need a tax cut when 90% of the benefit goes to people who don't need it? Why undermine the ability of the IRS to collect the taxes are already due? The concentration of wealth in the US is already far worse than a banana republic and excessive money has distorted our elections. Trickle down and Laffer Curve economics have driven us to our current predictament. It won't get us out of it.
 
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