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Some positive news on the treatment front

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lawpoke87

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There’s been lots of controversy with this treatment because it was mentioned by Trump. CNN called it false hope. Several Dem Governors issued statements advising doctors not to use it. Latest study from one of our trials supports the findings from other studies overseas. The treatment seems to prevent the fatal pneumonia which at times results from the virus.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-malaria.html
 
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Here’s what I don’t get. This is a drug that has been used relatively safely for decades. Why do we need to go through several studies before we start trying to use it as a treatment for our most at risk populations? As high as 20% of people over 75 who have contracted this are dying and from what I’ve read you basically have to be on your death bed before they will try using it, at which point it is usually too late.
 
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Hopefully, approval by CDC will help. This pattern has been seen before in combinations and the drug comes back at a much higher price.
 
URedskin54 said:
Here’s what I don’t get. This is a drug that has been used relatively safely for decades. Why do we need to go through several studies before we start trying to use it as a treatment for our most at risk populations? As high as 20% of people over 75 who have contracted this are dying and from what I’ve read you basically have to be on your death bed before they will try using it, at which point it is usually too late.
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Agree. I understand (sort of) the scientific approach of clinical trials, control groups, pier review,etc.. However when people are dying one would the scientific community would toss at least some of that aside and try to save lives. I assume we will see just that btw due to political pressure. The Fed’s have obtained millions of doses of this drug. My hope would be to see it being prescribed to everyone with moderate to severe cases from the outset. The more people we can keep out of ICU and off vents the better.
 
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  • Am I the only one who saw Andrew Cuomo’s pierced nipple rings? Lmao I’m kidding I know I wasn’t but in the course of being forced to watch one of his Guvnah Cuomo’s pressers & ignoring it until my girl pointed it out to me & I burst out laughing. No wonder he’ll never run for President... there has to be a large, corner office suite-filled room full of oppo research on this guy that makes Andrew Gillum look like he wasn’t caught having a gay meth-fueled orgy! Hahahaha oh my GOODNESS the Dems are so weird lmao
 
Don’t worry I’m finna bless y’all with some more uncle Devon. In these “trying times” I’m sure some of y’all are dying of boredom. In fact, I’ll track down a few videos from uncle Devon right now. You can thank me now. Or later. Or never. Lol I just know it will be enjoyed
 
There were two drugs about the same time that went through something like this one Colchicine that I was taking at the time and another that I was not taking and forgot the name of but was unrelated to C and I am allergic to.

C was a very old remedy for gout and other problems. Ben Franklin took it. It was also in a combination with a second drug. The manufacture of the two drug combination had gone through all the test and found only one problem with C, it gives you case of diarrhea. But it had never been tested by itself without the second drug been but sold for many years. C by itself gave you the runs and the other drug did not. So the government stopped allowing it's use for awhile. After the test the company who performed it got a patent. Oh, their finding was that it caused diarrhea.

When I was talking it the price was about a dollar for 30 tablets. The patented new medicine Colcrys was more like $100 and, of course, patents run for years. Fortunately, a new medicine came out (Uloric) that worked better and didn't cause Diarrhea but is expensive.

Somewhere there is a rich patents lawyer.
 
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TUMe said:
There were two drugs about the same time that went through something like this one Colchicine that I was taking at the time and another that I was not taking and forgot the name of but was unrelated to C and I am allergic to.

C was a very old remedy for gout and other problems. Ben Franklin took it. It was also in a combination with a second drug. The manufacture of the two drug combination had gone through all the test and found only one problem with C, it gives you case of diarrhea. But it had never been tested by itself without the second drug been but sold for many years. C by itself gave you the runs and the other drug did not. So the government stopped allowing it's use for awhile. After the test the company who performed it got a patent. Oh, their finding was that it caused diarrhea.

When I was talking it the price was about a dollar for 30 tablets. The patented new medicine Colcrys was more like $100 and, of course, patents run for years. Fortunately, a new medicine came out (Uloric) that worked better and didn't cause Diarrhea but is expensive.

Somewhere there is a rich patents lawyer.
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Parent / copyright attorneys are the worst. Seriously, I’d rather spend 30 years as a tax attorney or forensic accountant. Or even an ambulance chaser. What’s worse is these patent / copyright attorneys think that what they do is so just & right ... meanwhile they’re charging you a fortune for something you could pay a regular attorney to do with less than 10 days of self-education. I say insurance companies are the devil & they often are but patent / copyright attorneys really are.
 
Seriously these particular attorneys have a sleazy way of convincing people that they need them (the attorneys) more than the attorneys need to be working for people like them (the clients). It’s sickening. Poorly worded - yes, I break my own rules sometimes. The level to which these attorneys are willing to stoop is unmatched & therefore difficult to put into words, anyway. I’m sure some of them are great people but my personal experience is fk them.
 
TUMe said:
What?
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Oh I was just saying shame on you to Rippen for awful grammar, because all he can do is correct our grammar. We either are using conversational grammar, or don't feel like going back and correcting it,(because we got our point across) and/or it's not worth our time. He hasn't even corrected me on that which I do all the time. Stringing out sentences with conjunction after conjunction, in a run on sentence. But I get my point across, and nobody sees it as a lack of intelligence, besides inferiority complex Rippin.
 
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lawpoke87 said:
URedskin54 said:
Here’s what I don’t get. This is a drug that has been used relatively safely for decades. Why do we need to go through several studies before we start trying to use it as a treatment for our most at risk populations? As high as 20% of people over 75 who have contracted this are dying and from what I’ve read you basically have to be on your death bed before they will try using it, at which point it is usually too late.
Click to expand...

Agree. I understand (sort of) the scientific approach of clinical trials, control groups, pier review,etc.. However when people are dying one would the scientific community would toss at least some of that aside and try to save lives. I assume we will see just that btw due to political pressure. The Fed’s have obtained millions of doses of this drug. My hope would be to see it being prescribed to everyone with moderate to severe cases from the outset. The more people we can keep out of ICU and off vents the better.
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Doctors can prescribe it now off label right?

But if we do not conduct true experimental studies we will never know if it really works. We also won't know how well it works versus other potential treatments, when is the best time to initiate treatment, etc.

So by all means try for compassionate use. But do the studies too.
 
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drboobay said:
Doctors can prescribe it now off label right?

But if we do not conduct true experimental studies we will never know if it really works. We also won't know how well it works versus other potential treatments, when is the best time to initiate treatment, etc.

So by all means try for compassionate use. But do the studies too.
Click to expand...

Yeah I definitely want the studies to be done. I just don't see the need to wait on their completion to start using it on people who we know are going to struggle. If it were a new drug then of course, but this has been out forever and we pretty much have nothing else available that's shown promise.
 
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The only problem with using this drug appears to be that it forecloses the chances of the other 30 big pharma companies from making $500 a pill cures instead of a 5¢ a pill solution that is currently being sold at $1. If they have to lobby their bought and paid for friends in the regulatory scheme to stroke their anxieties to put the brakes on an easy solution then they’ve got plenty of money to do that and plenty of lobbyists have nothing else to do.

The governors power drunk opining on this issue is embarrassing. State surgeon generals have no business expressing opinions on national drug policy. Using them as cover because you fear the political backlash of suburban white mothers paranoid they won’t get lupus medication is shameful.
 
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245K confirmed cases in the US. Twice as many as any other country.... and many places aren't even testing everyone with symptoms. I would be willing to bet we're closer to the 500K or 1M mark in reality at the moment (if not more).
 
I think the answer is all of the above. Testing, ventilators, people avoiding crowds. It is a mixture of old methods and new.
 
if someone on hospice with an unrelated illness, catches covid19 and dies, do they get counted in the death toll?
 
No numbers at this point are really relevant other than deaths per million population because of differences in sizes of countries and different rates of testing. The true death rate is likely multiple orders of magnitude lower in every state than what can be calculated by deaths divided by cases.
 
Going all the way back to the first post in this thread about malaria drugs to cure this plague. Right now that is at very least a hope.

The current plans for stopping the coronavirus were extended only till May 1. Stop then and the virus continues, maybe even stronger. Stay the way we are and the economy goes into a dive that is brutal for many working people.

Some say the evidence for drug treatment is only anecdotal. But since the method is working safely for other disease, what is the harm of trying it? It doesn't mean we have to stop what we are already doing. We have, rightfully, thrown trillions of dollars at this problem. We are weeks from a two horned crisis. 533 people have died so far today and it in not yet noon, Tulsa time.

Dr. Salk and Pastuer tried novel solutions. Necessity is the mother of invention.
 
URedskin54 said:
Here’s what I don’t get. This is a drug that has been used relatively safely for decades. Why do we need to go through several studies before we start trying to use it as a treatment for our most at risk populations? As high as 20% of people over 75 who have contracted this are dying and from what I’ve read you basically have to be on your death bed before they will try using it, at which point it is usually too late.
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I believe it is available for "compassionate" usage immediately. Essentially if nothing else is working and you are looking at a high probability of death, there is no issue with using it. The trouble is getting it right now.

I have a friend who suffers from rheumatoid arthritis, and this is a drug he has been taking to manage it for some time. He can no longer get it due to the sudden supply crunch. It is no less life saving for people that have lupus or RA, and I believe they are attempting to prioritize the supply for those patients. From what I understand, much of our national supply was sourced internationally and is no longer reliable which adds to the trouble. I also believe domestic manufacturers are working overtime to catch up to demand, so hopefully the crunch is only temporary.
 
Clong83a said:
I believe it is available for "compassionate" usage immediately. Essentially if nothing else is working and you are looking at a high probability of death, there is no issue with using it. The trouble is getting it right now.

.
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The problem with that treatment protocol is the malaria drug cocktail is reported to be most useful given to at-risk people before they become critical...ie...develop the life threatening pneumonia. Once they become critical I don't believe the drug is very effective.
 
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lawpoke87 said:
The problem with that treatment protocol is the malaria drug cocktail is reported to be most useful given to at-risk people before they become critical...ie...develop the life threatening pneumonia. Once they become critical I don't believe the drug is very effective.
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But there's simply not enough of the drug to just give it to everyone that is not currently experiencing life threatening symptoms. You'd almost have to be part of a trial to get access, especially right now with the supply crunch. So, do the trials, give it to as many people as you otherwise can in the meantime without jeopardizing lupus patients, and ramp up production. I think that is pretty much what they are trying to do, it just takes a frustrating amount of time to get all that done.

In any case, I am content to let people that specialize in drug testing and public health make these decisions. It's not like they don't know these are special circumstances. I am sure they are doing everything they can to get it out there in useful ways.
 
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URedskin54 said:
Yeah I definitely want the studies to be done. I just don't see the need to wait on their completion to start using it on people who we know are going to struggle. If it were a new drug then of course, but this has been out forever and we pretty much have nothing else available that's shown promise.
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They are using the drug...
 
Clong83a said:
But there's simply not enough of the drug to just give it to everyone that is not currently experiencing life threatening symptoms. You'd almost have to be part of a trial to get access, especially right now with the supply crunch. So, do the trials, give it to as many people as you otherwise can in the meantime without jeopardizing lupus patients, and ramp up production. I think that is pretty much what they are trying to do, it just takes a frustrating amount of time to get all that done.

In any case, I am content to let people that specialize in drug testing and public health make these decisions. It's not like they don't know these are special circumstances. I am sure they are doing everything they can to get it out there in useful ways.
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This.
 
Clong83a said:
I believe it is available for "compassionate" usage immediately. Essentially if nothing else is working and you are looking at a high probability of death, there is no issue with using it. The trouble is getting it right now.

I have a friend who suffers from rheumatoid arthritis, and this is a drug he has been taking to manage it for some time. He can no longer get it due to the sudden supply crunch. It is no less life saving for people that have lupus or RA, and I believe they are attempting to prioritize the supply for those patients. From what I understand, much of our national supply was sourced internationally and is no longer reliable which adds to the trouble. I also believe domestic manufacturers are working overtime to catch up to demand, so hopefully the crunch is only temporary.
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Yeah, my Aunt has a serious case of Rheumatoid, and her daughter/my cousin has a serious case lupus.(like there isn't a serious case of lupus) They are having problems with two drugs right now. The malaria combo, and another drug which appears to possibly have success against covid, but is less well known by the public at this point. They are having problems getting both. I can't remember the name of the other drug, it will come to me later though, and I will post it. So two drugs they really need are becoming hard to get. That's not good for either of them.
 
aTUfan said:
if someone on hospice with an unrelated illness, catches covid19 and dies, do they get counted in the death toll?
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From my understanding it depends what is written on the death certificate as cause of death.
 
Clong83a said:
But there's simply not enough of the drug to just give it to everyone that is not currently experiencing life threatening symptoms. You'd almost have to be part of a trial to get access, especially right now with the supply crunch. So, do the trials, give it to as many people as you otherwise can in the meantime without jeopardizing lupus patients, and ramp up production. I think that is pretty much what they are trying to do, it just takes a frustrating amount of time to get all that done.

In any case, I am content to let people that specialize in drug testing and public health make these decisions. It's not like they don't know these are special circumstances. I am sure they are doing everything they can to get it out there in useful ways.
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Actemra an interleukin-6 receptor antagonist used to treat Rhematoid arthritis, and I believe used experimentally on lupus patients is the other drug that my family is worried about being in short supply because it has some positive feedback on treating covid19. It doesn't have as much proof that it works for covid19 as does the malaria combo, yet.
 
Gmoney4WW said:
Actemra an interleukin-6 receptor antagonist used to treat Rhematoid arthritis, and I believe used experimentally on lupus patients is the other drug that my family is worried about being in short supply because it has some positive feedback on treating covid19. It doesn't have as much proof that it works for covid19 as does the malaria combo, yet.
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Funny how this just came out as you say that a new study just came out showing lupus patients are actually far less likely to contract the COVID.
 
Rippin said:
Funny how this just came out as you say that a new study just came out showing lupus patients are actually far less likely to contract the COVID.
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Yes and that is probably because they have been taking Chloraquine and what all. But glad you are so dismissive of my cousin difficulties with Lupus. Now you can go off on my aunt's serious problems with arthritis. I'm sure you have expertise on that as well. You show your expertise in the medical field, it's probably about equal to Trump's being such a winner in the medical arena. Whatevah.
 
Reports indicate we did not have enough test kits, ppes, ventilators , ... isn't that more a function of the hospitals, the who and the cdc, not the president?
 
Looks like New York has not only flattened their curve but are now in the decline. Beds and vents shouldn’t be an issue.
 
aTUfan said:
Reports indicate we did not have enough test kits, ppes, ventilators , ... isn't that more a function of the hospitals, the who and the cdc, not the president?
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But the US government has a stockpile of equipment. In crises like these, they should be distributing to the places that need it most. In these cases places like NYC, LA, New Orleans. The hot spots.

NYC might be in decline in their number of cases but that's because they got aggressive with their shelter in place orders (which are not being followed very closely). Cuomo instituted a $500 fine and is thinking or raising it to $1000. I know Stitt and other GOP governors who have yet to issue these orders on a statewide basis talk about infringing upon individuals' rights. I get that. But at no time can your individual rights infringe upon my rights or my health or anyone else's. That's plain irresponsible (and my argument against unfettered gun access and ability to carry wherever the hell one wants). No one person's individual rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness can supercede any other person's individual rights.
 
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aTUfan said:
Reports indicate we did not have enough test kits, ppes, ventilators , ... isn't that more a function of the hospitals, the who and the cdc, not the president?
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Individual hospitals? Usually, but the sheer scale of this is the problem, and now there is a scarcity of supply and they can't restock easily. The WHO is a part of the UN, and is not in the business of supplying PPE to first world countries in general. The CDC? Yeah, that should be right up their ally. They messed up. Guess who is ultimately in charge of the CDC and making sure they are doing their job properly? Trump. I'm not going to sit here and say that everything that has happened is Trump's fault, but he does have some culpability.
 
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aTUfan said:
Reports indicate we did not have enough test kits, ppes, ventilators , ... isn't that more a function of the hospitals, the who and the cdc, not the president?
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When it is a pandemic virus from a foreign country, it becomes an issue of national security. Ultimately, it's the president's problem in the same way banks failing is the president's problem even though he didn't run the banks.
 
There is very little meaningful difference between most of the states where governors have issued stay at home orders and most states where they have not. Schools and businesses are closed and most major cities have done their own thing anyway. I'm in El Paso now and my life changed exactly 0% after a stay at home order was issued. Most people in this town don't seem to be listening to it anyway.
 
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