SoCal fires

[astonmartin708]

I haven't lived in CA for over a decade, and I never did really have my finger on the pulse of the state level politics. But to cast the problem of insuring wildfires as a political loser because of class bias against a bunch of irresponsible mansion owners in Hollywood is not a good read.

With respect, I think most everyone in SoCal recognizes the communal fire hazard. You've said that people in Florida know very well about hurricanes and flooding. Well, same in fire prone areas. Floridians aren't naturally smarter than Californians or Westerners in general. I don't think this fire is terribly surprising to anyone who has lived out west for any period of time. We've all seen big fires destroy communities of all sizes and income brackets. This one happened to hit Malibu and Brentwood hard, and makes for some riveting press coverage and outrage from people that are finally waking up to the problem. But it's not really anything we've never seen before or didn't know was possible. If you are from Michigan or Florida, the lack of water and the nature of these problems might be inconceivable and you'd assume someone must have messed up badly or acted with malice to allow such a tragedy. But that's not necessarily true.

Paradise, CA wasn't a millionaire elitist enclave. And I don't recall anybody bickering over why the municipal water supply wasn't enough to contain the blaze and protect the community. And the only people expecting the municipal water supply to be sufficient now either have an axe to grind or are horribly out of touch as to the nature of the problem.

In NM, certainly the folks in Ruidoso, and Las Vegas (not NV), affected by recent fires are not well-to-do areas. Just the opposite for some of the areas impacted.

The communities burned by the Park fire in CA last year similarly weren't a bunch of elites. People are losing their insurance all over the place, or having rates go up far from fire areas. The people most impacted are those who can't afford enormous premium hikes. I think there could be more support for a state-level effort to stabilize the markets by being a last-resort provider than you assume. At least if it was done correctly.

Instead they go after utilities for reimbursement, whether or not they can actually prove the utility equipment caused a fire (juries haven't really cared about this so far), and despite the fact that the utility commission doesn't want to fund the massive cost it would take to "fire proof" the electric service. So then rates per kwh go up and people get to complain about the rising cost of energy.....

 

[watu05]

Premium increases and coverage restrictions are the leading indicators of the how much decades of ignoring climate change is going to cost. Using government to provide insurance alternatives to private insurance will support continued construction in high risk areas with the public picking up the tab. It won't be an easy issue to resolve as private insurers are less and less able to cover the risks people have gotten used to insuring, especially their residences.

 

[lawpoke87]

Hopefully we place conditions on any federal funds used to rebuild in these areas. Without changes in infrastructure, fire mitigation and housing density it’s just a matter of time before these areas burn again. Would be similar to using federal funds to rebuild coastal communities in Florida and not strictly adhere to hurricane construction standards.

 

[HuffyCane]

Hopefully we place conditions on any federal funds used to rebuild in these areas. Without changes in infrastructure, fire mitigation and housing density it’s just a matter of time before these areas burn again. Would be similar to using federal funds to rebuild coastal communities in Florida and not strictly adhere to hurricane construction standards.

They won’t change a thing. That would involve admitting the truth: the cause of these fires was people and not global warming. The fire has always happened. It’s people that built in the middle of it.

Yet, those of us on the Earth for awhile are old enough to remember watching this film in elementary school. There is no difference between this event from the Brentwood/Bel-Air event of the early 60’s.

Sadly, the real outrage might be the sudden spike in San Diego home prices.

 

[astonmartin708]

They won’t change a thing. That would involve admitting the truth: the cause of these fires was people and not global warming. The fire has always happened. It’s people that built in the middle of it.

Yet, those of us on the Earth for awhile are old enough to remember watching this film in elementary school. There is no difference between this event from the Brentwood/Bel-Air event of the early 60’s.

Sadly, the real outrage might be the sudden spike in San Diego home prices.

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Will there ever be a point that you actually do stop denying climate change? Like what has to happen for you to accept that it's real? What are your pre-requisites?

 

[astonmartin708]

Hopefully we place conditions on any federal funds used to rebuild in these areas. Without changes in infrastructure, fire mitigation and housing density it’s just a matter of time before these areas burn again. Would be similar to using federal funds to rebuild coastal communities in Florida and not strictly adhere to hurricane construction standards.

I'll allow this when they stop allowing Moore, Oklahoma to be rebuilt continually.

We have to rebuild or provide extensive relief assistance in Republican states (Texas, Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Alabama, the Carolinas) every 10-20 years because of Flooding, Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Fires, Icing Storms etc... The real estate structures might have gotten better from a not getting blown away or burned to the ground standpoint but the infrastructure hasn't actually improved which causes repetitive costs. In fact, in most cases it has just grown more dilapidated.

I want you to look at what countries in flood prone parts of the world do with their ground floor housing.... then look at the Gulf Coast. Tell me what you see.

 

[lawpoke87]

I'll allow this when they stop allowing Moore, Oklahoma to be rebuilt continually.

We have to rebuild or provide extensive relief assistance in Republican states (Texas, Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Alabama, the Carolinas) every 10-20 years because of Flooding, Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Fires, Icing Storms etc... The real estate structures might have gotten better from a not getting blown away or burned to the ground standpoint but the infrastructure hasn't actually improved which causes repetitive costs. In fact, in most cases it has just grown more dilapidated.

I want you to look at what countries in flood prone parts of the world do with their ground floor housing.... then look at the Gulf Coast. Tell me what you see.

Construction beyond the Coastal Construction Control Line is subject to strict building codes. California is going to have to take similar measures for construction in these high risk fire areas. No reason to throw federal money into new construction in these areas without demanding changes to mitigate risks and damage.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Construction beyond the Coastal Construction Control Line is subject to strict building codes. California is going to have to take similar measures for construction in these high risk fire areas. No reason to throw federal money into new construction in these areas without demanding changes to mitigate risks and damage.

What do you do about the land people own where peoples homes won't be rebuilt by federal funds.

 

[HuffyCane]

Will there ever be a point that you actually do stop denying climate change? Like what has to happen for you to accept that it's real? What are your pre-requisites?

I don’t take a position for or against human activity affecting our climate.

This fire would have happened even if it wasn’t set by humans, at least one of which is in this country illegally.

But I know a government scam/shakedown when I see one. And I know people using an issue to gain political power and money when I see it.

Telling everyone that the Democratic leadership is blameless for this disaster is just as flat wrong as saying they are to blame and equally wrong that climate change is to blame.

Telling everyone that the world will end unless we buy a bunch of products from China and give billions to politically connected donors is just bad public policy.

Just as bad as telling us in the 70’s that the next Ice Age is five years away.

 

[astonmartin708]

Construction beyond the Coastal Construction Control Line is subject to strict building codes. California is going to have to take similar measures for construction in these high risk fire areas. No reason to throw federal money into new construction in these areas without demanding changes to mitigate risks and damage.

Who is talking about building codes? Insurance still has to pay for your roofing hail and storm damage. They have to pay for your flood damage. The government has to help pay to manage your evacuation, and to provide emergency housing arrangement.

Hurricanes have been increasing in both severity and frequency due to rising ocean temps. Your state's flood and wind losses for a single gulf storm may not surpass this single California instance, but they are still significant burdens for the US risk pool and they happen quite frequently.