Self is dirty?
- Thread starter Original TULSAFAN
- Start date
He plays the game just like every other blue blood coach. Hopefully the new G league alleviates some of under the table payments to the elite players. I do expect it to hurt the elite programs.
How many times has the NCAA found Eddie guilty of major recruiting violations which resulted in penalties ?
Three programs took a fall with Eddie at the helm,. I am a big OSU fan and only want them to lose to TU but come on, putting his name on your court is really disturbing.
Just this once I think.
The NCAA announced at the end of the season that its investigation into the basketball program had found the school guilty of violating numerous NCAA policies.[8] The NCAA deemed the violations so egregious that it seriously considered hitting the Wildcats with the "death penalty", which would have shut down the entire basketball program (as opposed to simply being banned from postseason play) for up to two years. Kentucky was eligible for this severe penalty because it was already on probation for failing to cooperate with an investigation into an extensive scheme of payments to recruits. By then, however, Sutton was already gone. In March, school president David Roselle told Sutton that he had lined up enough support on UK's athletics board to fire him unless he resigned. Rather than face all-but-certain termination, Sutton resigned. Athletic director Cliff Hagan resigned as well. The Wildcats were slapped with three years' probation, a two-year ban from postseason play and a ban from live television in 1989–90. Manuel was also banned from ever playing again for any NCAA member school.[9]
Obviously, a two part question.....How many times has he been guilty and not
been punished generates a bigger number.....
I could care less if he was found guilty of major or minor infractions. His leadership resulted in three programs being hurt significantly for several years. OSU still not back to prime time and yet they put his name on their court. I just do not get it. Yes he was a great coach and probably a nice guy, but he left destruction at three college programs.
How many times they did?? Or admitted they did? Those number may
be significantly different........
Prior to Eddie, OSU’s last NCAA tourney win was in 1965. They had only been to one NCAA tourney in the last 25 years before Eddie was named coach. He took OSU to 13 NCAA appearances in 16 seasons including two final fours. The update and expansion of the arena was all due to him. His last recruiting class was the #1 ranked class in the country. He left the OSU basketball program miles ahead of where it was when he was hired. Those are the reasons the floor was named after him.
I didn’t agree with the way he left or the way he lobbied for Sean to take over for him. Eddie was far from perfect and always fought alcohol issues. However, he revitalized an OSU program who was downright awful for decades. The job he did in Stillwater was remarkable.
Sure if you like credit card fraud and pot dealing guards... then yeah.. he was great.
I get it Lawpoke. He was indeed a great coach. I just do not think he should be idolized and memorialized with his history of problems at three different schools. I am all for forgive and forget but three times is enough.
I have no issues with giving 18-19 year old kids second chances. Neither of this incidents occurred at OSU. Both of those kids took advantage of their second chances and graduated. Those are success stories and should be celebrated not criticized imo.
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The only one of those three schools who have an issue with Eddie is Kentucky. His banner is currently hung in the rafters at Barnhill.
http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/sutton-to-be-honored-with-banner-ceremony/
He took a kid that sold pot to his classmates and young kids. The kid was so dirty that Roy Williams wouldn’t take him...
But, I guess if they don’t happen at OSU...
Does that apply to all crimes? As long as it doesn’t happen at OSU, you can do what you want and still play at OSU?
Not against second chances... just sometimes those second chances should be at D3 schools .. otherwise there are no consequences for their actions... unlesss you count having to live in Stillwater as punishment enough.
You're correct. He sold $95 worth of pot to an undercover police officer when he was 17 years old. As someone who made mistakes when I was that age I suppose I'm more receptive to giving minors second chances than others. This isn't about OSU to me it's about a 17 year old who sold some pot to a cop. Still believe the kid should have been giving a second chance at a D1.
It's funny that I take much more exception to what Gottlieb did than Curry. Curry was 17 and in high school. Gottlieb was in college and stole from his fellow students. Both had never been in trouble before. I would argue that both are examples of why we should give young people second chances. Especially when their crime is a non-violent first offense.
It's funny that I take much more exception to what Gottlieb did than Curry. Curry was 17 and in high school. Gottlieb was in college and stole from his fellow students. Both had never been in trouble before. I would argue that both are examples of why we should give young people second chances. Especially when their crime is a non-violent first offense.
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How much had he sold before he got caught?
I’m for second chances too, but getting a free ride with a pipeline to the NBA doesn’t teach a lesson. It does however show me that Eddie would do anything to get back to the final 4 and win that elusive championship.
A bunch? None? We can only go by the fact that he sold $95 of pot to a cop and had never been in trouble before. Eddie coached college ball for 35 years. During that period he had a remarkable record of his players not getting into trouble while under his watch. Curry was taught his lesson through the criminal justice system. Selling some pot to a cop as a 17 year old should not ruin one's chances for his dream imo. On a personal note, I have an assistant who plead guilty to a similar offense as a 19 year old. He's now 35, married and with a family. He's also a convicted felon. The barriers which he faces to obtain employment is ridiculous. I gave him a chance and I'm glad I did. I'll get off my soapbox now.
Yup, Eddie was such a great influence on him that he even taught him how to urinate in public. Unfortunately he didn’t tell him to only do it on a middle school in Stillwater.
What name did he give the cop in Edmond, Ok when he got busted for pot?
Busted for having a some pot residue on him ten years after coming to OSU....hardened criminal stuff right there. Again....in thirty five years of coaching how many of Eddie's kids got in trouble under his watch? I get you don't like or maybe respect him but his record with keeping kids clean while he was coaching them is quite remarkable.
NEW YORK -- A jury on Wednesday convicted the three defendants accused of pay-for-play schemes to influence high-profile basketball recruits to attend Kansas, Louisville and NC State.
Adidas employee James Gatto, former Adidas consultant Merl Code and Christian Dawkins, a former runner for NBA agent Andy Miller, were found guilty after a three-week criminal trial in federal court in New York.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...ound-guilty-college-basketball-pay-play-trial
Prior to that coming out, KU decided to hold out Sousa.
https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article220538450.html
Adidas employee James Gatto, former Adidas consultant Merl Code and Christian Dawkins, a former runner for NBA agent Andy Miller, were found guilty after a three-week criminal trial in federal court in New York.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...ound-guilty-college-basketball-pay-play-trial
Prior to that coming out, KU decided to hold out Sousa.
https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article220538450.html
I'm not holding my breath for major sanctions against the blue bloods. The Feds and jury found those schools were victims of the shoe companies. A perfect excuse for the NCAA to pass on major sanctions. See their excuse for not penalizing UNC for reference.
Ah, but the text messages from the coaches helping to negotiate or be in the loop on these payments will be the downfall.
I hope you're correct. Seems like the P5s neutered the NCAA several years ago. I'll be interested to see if they do anything to KU or Self.
Plausible deniability. This court case has been a classic example how you avoid any direct connection. Beautiful moves by the shoe companies,Agents, AAU coaches and P5 programs,,P5 programs,They will skate.
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There's no deniability. Cell phone transcripts of text messages plus witness testimony indicate Self was aware of what was going on. I think Arizona is going to get hit because Sean Miller denied all the stuff about Ayton and now we know Ayton got paid meaning he would be ineligible. Arizona is going to forfeit every game Ayton played in last year. We know the Bowen's got paid for the 'Ville stuff. And I've heard questions about Zion Williamson for Duke this year (dude is a monster, looks like Corliss Williamson, moves like Durant). And if you think Nike and Under Armor aren't involved in these schemes...that's just naive. They just hid it better...but it's coming.
Plus I'm still clinging to hope that Kansas gets nailed for a couple of years and Bryce Thompson decides he just wants to stay here and avoid that crap.
So you think that denying him a great source of economic opportunity is fair? It’s certainly stupid. Remove economic opportunity for a guy and maximize the chances that he feels he has no choice later but to engage in further criminal activity to get ahead. You’re suggesting an approach that reinforces and promotes a cycle of crime. I know being the tough world weary guy is your shtick and all but come on. And of course it so happens that the rate of selling drugs is the same for white and black people but the rate of arrest is almost 3x higher for black people. There are plenty of white kids playing college BB who sold drugs and they didn’t have to abandon their future.
I’m suggesting a course of action that involves a couple of years at a juco or lesser division school before he played at a premier D1 institution. If he had the chops for the NBA, they would find him no matter where. And perhaps a couple of years out of the spotlight would be beneficial to his overall character development.
I don’t remember race being an issue in my previous post. It’s really not relevant in this discussion to bring it up.
Doesn't losing the opportunity to play at UNC in front of friends and family and being forced to go to Stillwater OK qualify?
Good comments....With all of the hoopla swirling around the 35-40 top
players in each class, I have often wondered how long you could last as a
head coach at Ks, NC, Duke, Ky, UCLA, or the top 2 or 3 schools in the B-10,
etal, if you really did play it straight....
BB recruiting has always been about the money, but the shoe companies
have made the stakes much higher, and they have made the cesspool much
deeper.......
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Shaking my head on that one. It's time to dissolve the NCAA and start over. They even approved an eligibility waiver for some kid who transferred from Evansville to Mizzou after a coaching change. Mizzou tried to get Evansville to support it by saying the kid's scholarship wasn't going to be renewed and Evansville said that wasn't true and documented how many times (and when) players were told they were all having their aid renewed after the coaching change. NCAA approved the waiver anyway and the kid doesn't have to sit.
How many believe if that kid were transferring to Western Kentucky or Tulsa or Colorado State that he would most definitely be sitting this year?
I also am starting to believe that Mizzou has a booster/runner talking to kids on their behalf to get them to transfer there. This situation is eerily similar to Jordan Clarkson leaving here. There has to be some sloppiness somewhere on that guy's part that would implicate Mizzou in tampering with players.
The NCAA put some harsh penalties on BYU so they can say they take violations seriously...
https://www.ksl.com/article/4642401...s-other-penalties-for-role-in-nick-emery-case
https://www.ksl.com/article/4642401...s-other-penalties-for-role-in-nick-emery-case
It is harsh. There is a difference in the BYU case in that the NCAA acknowledged that the coaching staff didn't know. Self/Kansas, Lousiville, Arizona are going to have a hard time proving that with the testimony offered by the adidas guy, especially in Ayton's case where he spurned the adidas school (Kansas) for Arizona and the adidas guy telling Self that he was sorry they didn't offer more initially for Ayton.
You're probably right. The NCAA is probably going to end up capitulating in this and then basically thrown away because it essentially doesn't have any power or use anymore. The P5s don't want to have any rules like that anyway. It's going to destroy college sports.
