Numbers

[Air_Raid918]

Production from the 3 spot has been a real weakness this season. In my opinion, Haith needs to diminish Birt and Korita's minutes and go big with Taplin, Henderson, Etou, Igbanu, and Edogi. With Wheeler and Magnay coming off the bench. That's a solid 7 man rotation. Or, give Atson, Battle, and Artison extended minutes. What's happening now is not working. He's got to mix things up somehow.

Numbers from last 6 games:

Birt: 8-52 FG. 6-27 3pt. 8 Assists/13 Turnovers. 28 min/game

Korita: 2-19 FG. 1-14 3pt. 6A/3TO. 12 min/gm

That's a combined 10-71 FG, 7-41 3pt, and 14 assists to 16 turnovers. Those are absolutely horrendous #'s. It's difficult to watch when you know there's talent on the bench. We're looking to the future and we need to develop what we have that will be back next year.

 

[t-townpod]

Which players are the talent on the bench? Battle, Artison,Atson.How did starting Atson go at Memphis? I think he is playing his best players.
I would like to see us play Etou at the 3 and Ibanu, TK or Magney at the 4/5 spots and go bigger some.

 

[hotterthanyourhusbandTU]

Great post...I like the logic.

The only thing I would disagree with is getting Atson more playing time. He started against Memphis and didn't resemble a developing D1 player...especially regarding basic quickness/athletic ability.

True Story - During the pre-game shootaround vs UCF, I saw TK Edogi hit 12 straight threes.

My point - He can play the 3...especially on the defensive side.

 

[Air_Raid918]

I was leaning toward a bigger lineup. Just threw out the other option for discussion. By talent on the bench, I basically mean when Birt or Korita are on floor and Edogi/Magnay/Igbanu on bench.

 

[drboobay]

How the heck can any team win with guards shooting under 20% threes? It is suicide.

 

[seniorgolfer]

How the heck can any team win with guards shooting under 20% on
threes compete? It is suicide.

Exactly....With Juice and Shaq going strong for four years, it was
hard to recruit guards that would be in a reserve mode for some
share of their careers for sure...

However we play our bigs, guards are the winners and/or losers
in college hoops.....It is hard to remember when we were as weak
at the (two actually, sometimes three) guard position(s) as we are
now..Almost all of our previous NCAA successes were predicated
on guard play....We seldom had a dominating front court....

Joiner and Scott will be Godsends at the guard positions, and
Jeffries will be strong at the wing, but you still wonder some about
the PG position, and overall team speed will continue to be a
problem.....With the top six teams (or so) in the AAC recruiting
higher rated recruits than we are, it is imperative that we
land some very productive guards in the 2018 recruiting class....

Most of the better teams in the conference run their offenses
a couple of steps closer to the basket than we do, which include
more passing, and to the unskilled eye, more movement and
preset precision.....Maybe, and I'm not too sure about this, If
we can improve the recruiting at the "skill" positions, we will
improve our offensive sets....Sometimes, it looks as if there is a
coaching short fall, as well....Let's hope that's not the case.....

In the coming seasons, it will take a helleva team to compete in
the upper echelons of the AAC.....That's the way it should be....I
hope we are able to meet the requirements to be there.....It's a
lot more fun when you have a reasonable chance to succeed.....

 

[I.I.]

We may have to start recruiting Coach's kids who have advanced fundamentals. Same reason some schools are recruiting foreign players who are taught those.

Shooting, passing, defense. These skills are being forgotten in favor of athleticism. Need more Greg Harrington's.

 

[Tulsafanzz]

We may have to start recruiting Coach's kids who have advanced fundamentals. Same reason some schools are recruiting foreign players who are taught those.

Shooting, passing, defense. These skills are being forgotten in favor of athleticism. Need more Greg Harrington's.

The sad part is we don't have that much athleticism, either.

 

[lynesrun]

Production from the 3 spot has been a real weakness this season. In my opinion, Haith needs to diminish Birt and Korita's minutes and go big with Taplin, Henderson, Etou, Igbanu, and Edogi. With Wheeler and Magnay coming off the bench. That's a solid 7 man rotation. Or, give Atson, Battle, and Artison extended minutes. What's happening now is not working. He's got to mix things up somehow.

Numbers from last 6 games:

Birt: 8-52 FG. 6-27 3pt. 8 Assists/13 Turnovers. 28 min/game

Korita: 2-19 FG. 1-14 3pt. 6A/3TO. 12 min/gm

That's a combined 10-71 FG, 7-41 3pt, and 14 assists to 16 turnovers. Those are absolutely horrendous #'s. It's difficult to watch when you know there's talent on the bench. We're looking to the future and we need to develop what we have that will be back next year.

 

[noble cane]

We may have to start recruiting Coach's kids who have advanced fundamentals. Same reason some schools are recruiting foreign players who are taught those.

Shooting, passing, defense. These skills are being forgotten in favor of athleticism. Need more Greg Harrington's.

His name was spoken.. I heard a chorus on high!

 

[Gold*]

Where is Harrington now? I thought he was coaching, but I couldn't find anything. He's one I'd like to see when the alumni walk out at the half every year.

 

[Weatherdemon]

Where is Harrington now? I thought he was coaching, but I couldn't find anything. He's one I'd like to see when the alumni walk out at the half every year.

My sister told me he's married with three kids and working outside of basketball but I don't remember where he's at.

 

[drboobay]

We may have to start recruiting Coach's kids who have advanced fundamentals. Same reason some schools are recruiting foreign players who are taught those.

Shooting, passing, defense. These skills are being forgotten in favor of athleticism. Need more Greg Harrington's.

Yup but we all thought this year's group would improve our shooting PCT and basketball IQ. So far we have only improved FT shooting.

 

[noble cane]

My sister told me he's married with three kids and working outside of basketball but I don't remember where he's at.

I will bet that he's baking cakes in his own bakery.

 

[lynesrun]

We may have to start recruiting Coach's kids who have advanced fundamentals. Same reason some schools are recruiting foreign players who are taught those.

Shooting, passing, defense. These skills are being forgotten in favor of athleticism. Need more Greg Harrington's.

juco kids do not always learn defense and passing skills in jr. college.

 

[TU Sepp]

Concerning the big men over the years...
Nolan had "I forgot his name" and David Brown plus Pressey...
Then he brought in the Rahilly brothers...
Tubby had the "Bruse Brothers" Rollo & Hernadi
Self had Kurtz, the transfer from LSU, Shelton...
Jack Ingram was short lived but here for a few years
JP had Kevin Johnson & Charlie Davis
There are others, but TU has always had a decent big man or in KJ's case one that could play big because he could jump out of the gym, on all their good teams...
Swank had All-American forwards Bingo Smith & Rob Washington and earlier he had the best rebounding guard in the history of TU bball in Jim King and after King he had Herm Callands & Sherm Dillard...
There are others that I have left out, but these are some I remember off the top of my head!!!

 

[old.guy]

Greg Stewart was the big who came here with Nolan.
Nolan also recruited two bigs who were freshmen the year we beat OU and Tisdale. Nolan couldn't always remember their names, so he referred to them as "the tall kid" and "the fat kid." They both got some minutes as frosh but transferred out after Nolan left for Arky.
Nolan also had Bruce Vanley and a big, strong kid from Okmulgee who once went up for a rebound, lost control of the ball on the way down and bounced it off the floor and into the opponent's bucket. Can't remember his name.

 

[TU Sepp]

There was also Steve Ballard (Muskogee??) and Johnson that played Euro into his 50's.

 

[ba11game]

Concerning the big men over the years...

How could you leave out the biggest (well, at least tallest) of them all: Dave Otto. Did that guy ever see the court for TU?

 

[PhoggyBottom]

Bruce Vanley's issues and exit from the team may have cost TU a final four

 

[lynesrun]

Production from the 3 spot has been a real weakness this season. In my opinion, Haith needs to diminish Birt and Korita's minutes and go big with Taplin, Henderson, Etou, Igbanu, and Edogi. With Wheeler and Magnay coming off the bench. That's a solid 7 man rotation. Or, give Atson, Battle, and Artison extended minutes. What's happening now is not working. He's got to mix things up somehow.

Numbers from last 6 games:

Birt: 8-52 FG. 6-27 3pt. 8 Assists/13 Turnovers. 28 min/game

Korita: 2-19 FG. 1-14 3pt. 6A/3TO. 12 min/gm

That's a combined 10-71 FG, 7-41 3pt, and 14 assists to 16 turnovers. Those are absolutely horrendous #'s. It's difficult to watch when you know there's talent on the bench. We're looking to the future and we need to develop what we have that will be back next year.

korita has only played four minutes per game the last two games. this is not a freshmen problem. this is an upperclassmen problem. wheeler does not play good defense and dribbles two much up top and two the rim. Henderson dribbles two much plays no defense. his shot has been better. birt is birt. taplin has trouble plying defends and fouls to much. wheeler, Henderson, birt and taplin try to take it inside and do not pass to the open man. people complain about koritas shooting and rightfully so, but remember juice only shot 28% his freshman year. just mo.

 

[Air_Raid918]

Agree on Freshmen not being the problem. Wheeler and Henderson have shown flashes, but inconsistent. Same with Taplin, who still is only a sophomore. It's unheard of to replace 9 Seniors.

At least we've surprised some teams; beating Illinois St, UCONN, Memphis, @Temple. It's really all I wanted out of this year (steal a couple games and finish 500 or above). Oh and we beat ORU, something we've struggled to do lately.

 

[mcane]

Agree with the list above. If TU could finish above 500 and beat Houston in the AAC, that would be enough for me to declare this year a good start. I need to remember that last year's team would have finished as a disappointment after two blowout losses to Memphis, if the team had not gotten a surprise NCAA tournament win. I nearly broke my leg falling off the treadmill when I was watching the selection scroll by. I almost didn't watch it.

 

[Air_Raid918]

Speaking of Houston, remember 2009-10 CUSA Tournament at BOK in Tulsa. They were 15-16 heading into the tourney, then won 4 straight to get NCAA bid. Aubrey Coleman went off for about 27 each game. Maybe Birt will catch fire and we'll do the same. Haha

 

[cmullinsTU]

Speaking of Houston, remember 2009-10 CUSA Tournament at BOK in Tulsa. They were 15-16 heading into the tourney, then won 4 straight to get NCAA bid. Aubrey Coleman went off for about 27 each game. Maybe Birt will catch fire and we'll do the same. Haha

Aw yes the "year we've been waiting for" when we had to come from 14 down at halftime vs Rice just to make it into the 2nd round of the tourney.

Was that John Pastner's first season at Memphis?

 

[I.I.]

Concerning the big men over the years...
Nolan had "I forgot his name" and David Brown plus Pressey...
Then he brought in the Rahilly brothers...
Tubby had the "Bruse Brothers" Rollo & Hernadi
Self had Kurtz, the transfer from LSU, Shelton...
Jack Ingram was short lived but here for a few years
JP had Kevin Johnson & Charlie Davis
There are others, but TU has always had a decent big man or in KJ's case one that could play big because he could jump out of the gym, on all their good teams...
Swank had All-American forwards Bingo Smith & Rob Washington and earlier he had the best rebounding guard in the history of TU bball in Jim King and after King he had Herm Callands & Sherm Dillard...
There are others that I have left out, but these are some I remember off the top of my head!!!

You may have forgotten the best big man I saw at TU the past 35 years..........Michael Ruffin...............

 

[TU Sepp]

I didn't forget per say... I could see his face, but the name drew a blank.
Thanks for the reminder!

 

[tuharvard]

I compared this season's stats with those of the previous 7 seasons's (as far back as was available). I wanted to see exactly where we've gone wrong. Here's what I found.

Since '09, this year's team is the worst in the following categories (# in parentheses is '16-'17 rank out of 347 teams; also, we rank no higher than 9th out of 11 in the AAC in any of these):

Scoring offense (303)
Scoring margin (248)
Field goal % (291)
Assists per game (298)
Turnovers per game (323)
Assist turnover ratio (314)
Turnover margin (314)

Some of these have been quite obvious. We're awful offensively. IMHO, the reason is simple: we cannot get the ball to our best scorers. This results in 1 of 2 outcomes, both of which negatively effect our offense: 1) we try to force it to our best scorers, which ends up with a turnover; or 2) instead of forcing it, we end up settling for a poor shot from our worst scoring options. This results in ghastly turnover #'s, assist #'s, scoring outputs, & FG %'s.

So how do we fix this? 2 things must drastically improve: our offensive sets, & our guard play. I think these go hand in hand. We must find easier, more efficient ways of getting the ball to our playmakers (Etou & Igbanu, Henderson & Wheeler) in spots to do the most damage. Whatever we've been doing, especially since halftime of Memphis game, has been painful to watch. I've never seen TU look so completely inept on offense (standing around, no ball movement, no dribble drive, inability to pass in or out of the post, careless turnovers, & end of shot clock desperation heaves).

 

[Air_Raid918]

Clearly Haith loves the 2 high ball screen. I do too, I think it's a great set. But I would like to see some more offensive sets to get Etou and Igbanu the ball in the post. With the two just mentioned, along with Edogi and Magnay, I would love to see some 2 man games develop...high post to low post. You must be able to make that entry pass, and most times we've tried this year it has ended in a turnover.

 

[lawpoke87]

Going into the season I had thought this team would be fine offensively but struggle on the defensive end due to it's youth. I couldn't have been more wrong.

 

[astonmartin708]

Agree with the list above. If TU could finish above 500 and beat Houston in the AAC, that would be enough for me to declare this year a good start. I need to remember that last year's team would have finished as a disappointment after two blowout losses to Memphis, if the team had not gotten a surprise NCAA tournament win. I nearly broke my leg falling off the treadmill when I was watching the selection scroll by. I almost didn't watch it.

We won?

 

[astonmartin708]

Clearly Haith loves the 2 high ball screen. I do too, I think it's a great set. But I would like to see some more offensive sets to get Etou and Igbanu the ball in the post. With the two just mentioned, along with Edogi and Magnay, I would love to see some 2 man games develop...high post to low post. You must be able to make that entry pass, and most times we've tried this year it has ended in a turnover.

This would have been a really good team for Manning's Hi-Lo. He loved to get Lew Evans those corner 3's that he'd brick every time. Etou would have been a monster under Manning. I've realized that Henderson is just a slightly worse version of Pat Swilling (on the court). Birt is a slightly worse version of Scottie Haralson.

 

[I.I.]

The goal is to get our best scorers the ball where they have the best opportunity to score each possession. You predominately get this from set plays and good fundamental screens. Some of the best coaches in the nation use this approach but still the majority of current coaches use a "motion" offense where you never know who will get the shot and in our case sometimes no one gets open and we fire at the shot clock buzzer and pray. I was never a big Eddie Sutton fan because he coached at our opponents (AR and OSU) but I must admit he knew most times down the court who was going to take the shot and from where it was going to be shot. . . If that first option was covered, a second option was next.

 

[cmullinsTU]

Going into the season I had thought this team would be fine offensively but struggle on the defensive end due to it's youth. I couldn't have been more wrong.

I thought the same thing and expected our 3pt shooting % to be quite a bit higher than last season, which it is not.

 

[ctt8410]

It's worth pointing out that the AAC this year is the slowest paced league in the country with the highest block% and lowest 2pt%.. It's a tough defensive league.

 

[mcane]

should have said "inclusion." I know we lost to Michigan (Birt began his senior season by being a no show).

 

[PhoggyBottom]

I compared this season's stats with those of the previous 7 seasons's (as far back as was available). I wanted to see exactly where we've gone wrong. Here's what I found.

Since '09, this year's team is the worst in the following categories (# in parentheses is '16-'17 rank out of 347 teams; also, we rank no higher than 9th out of 11 in the AAC in any of these):

Scoring offense (303)
Scoring margin (248)
Field goal % (291)
Assists per game (298)
Turnovers per game (323)
Assist turnover ratio (314)
Turnover margin (314)

Some of these have been quite obvious. We're awful offensively. IMHO, the reason is simple: we cannot get the ball to our best scorers. This results in 1 of 2 outcomes, both of which negatively effect our offense: 1) we try to force it to our best scorers, which ends up with a turnover; or 2) instead of forcing it, we end up settling for a poor shot from our worst scoring options. This results in ghastly turnover #'s, assist #'s, scoring outputs, & FG %'s.

So how do we fix this? 2 things must drastically improve: our offensive sets, & our guard play. I think these go hand in hand. We must find easier, more efficient ways of getting the ball to our playmakers (Etou & Igbanu, Henderson & Wheeler) in spots to do the most damage. Whatever we've been doing, especially since halftime of Memphis game, has been painful to watch. I've never seen TU look so completely inept on offense (standing around, no ball movement, no dribble drive, inability to pass in or out of the post, careless turnovers, & end of shot clock desperation heaves).

There is really almost nothing this team does well offensively. 195th in points per possession, 336th in Turnover%, 256th in 2pt%, 227th in 3pt%, 345th in offensive block%, 314th in offensive steal%. The only thing that is keeping the team from a complete offensive meltdown is getting to the line frequently (42nd in fta/fga) and a decent free throw% (104th). Still, it is not even close to the worst TU offense. In fact, this is the 5th best points per possession offense TU has had since kenpom started in 2002.

However, while the defense has been better than the offense (101st in points per possession), it is actually the worst TU defense since kenpom started in 2002 on a points per possession basis. This is the first TU defense during that period to give up more than a point per possession.

 

[cmullinsTU]

I wish there was a stat category for 3ptrs allowed from the corner. I'm confident we are last in the country in that stat.

 

[I.I.]

I wish there was a stat category for 3ptrs allowed from the corner. I'm confident we are last in the country in that stat.

Didn't want to hit the "like" button as that didn't seem appropriate but one of the best comments I've seen.

 

[lynesrun]

Production from the 3 spot has been a real weakness this season. In my opinion, Haith needs to diminish Birt and Korita's minutes and go big with Taplin, Henderson, Etou, Igbanu, and Edogi. With Wheeler and Magnay coming off the bench. That's a solid 7 man rotation. Or, give Atson, Battle, and Artison extended minutes. What's happening now is not working. He's got to mix things up somehow.

Numbers from last 6 games:

Birt: 8-52 FG. 6-27 3pt. 8 Assists/13 Turnovers. 28 min/game

Korita: 2-19 FG. 1-14 3pt. 6A/3TO. 12 min/gm

That's a combined 10-71 FG, 7-41 3pt, and 14 assists to 16 turnovers. Those are absolutely horrendous #'s. It's difficult to watch when you know there's talent on the bench. We're looking to the future and we need to develop what we have that will be back next year.