G5 realignment, playoffs

[loca2874]

We have a short term lifeline
A home and home with OSU
Ark here in 2026 (?)
Those games help keep TU relevant
Outside of last years disaster here vs OU
TU has been very competitive with the top leagues
OSU Washington Ole Miss Texas

We can schedule the Dallas cowboys and the Kansas city chiefs at that rate. If we don’t win any of those games it doesn’t matter. If they form a league or we do (who cares) we might as well call us the FCS and then the FCS will change to D2. When all of this happens the networks will only want the P5 games and we will be sent to obscurity. Doesn’t matter if we can win, we do not have the clout to get the opportunity. They change the rules to allow a G5 to get in and now they want to make their own thing.

If they do that we need to have promotion and relegation as they do in European soccer. They won’t do that because of the current conferences and the deals they have. We need the conferences to break up and just have tiers with regions. One governing body made up of AD’s from the schools in that tier or something to that nature.

 

[HuffyCane]

Tulsa needs to sign a consortium agreement with the Universidad de Monterrey and send our football team down there for a short summer term or J term then playing a Big 12 team to start or end the season. Sign game agreements for soccer and holiday basketball tournaments as well.

Give the players a guaranteed summer abroad experience every year for signing with us. And course credit. Play the game. Cash the check. Make the Big 12 and TV happy. Fly home.

 

[TU 1978]

But where will SLP land?

 

[astonmartin708]

We can schedule the Dallas cowboys and the Kansas city chiefs at that rate. If we don’t win any of those games it doesn’t matter. If they form a league or we do (who cares) we might as well call us the FCS and then the FCS will change to D2. When all of this happens the networks will only want the P5 games and we will be sent to obscurity. Doesn’t matter if we can win, we do not have the clout to get the opportunity. They change the rules to allow a G5 to get in and now they want to make their own thing.

If they do that we need to have promotion and relegation as they do in European soccer. They won’t do that because of the current conferences and the deals they have. We need the conferences to break up and just have tiers with regions. One governing body made up of AD’s from the schools in that tier or something to that nature.

The Washington game was “competitive”???? In what way? Were our water boys better than theirs?

 

[loca2874]

The Washington game was “competitive”???? In what way? Were our water boys better than theirs?

Where did you see me say the Washington game was competitive? Please point that out.

 

[astonmartin708]

Where did you see me say the Washington game was competitive? Please point that out.

Sorry it was in an MCane post you replied to. I have about 5 seconds per reply to actually complete a thought because rivals sucks on Safari.

 

[drboobay]

Sorry it was in an MCane post you replied to. I have about 5 seconds per reply to actually complete a thought because rivals sucks on Safari.

Use Chrome?

 

[Weatherdemon]

With the future of college sports uncertain, one thing is clear: An official and permanent split of NCAA Division I is here

Division I has never been more fractured, and the split between the haves and have-nots in college athletics is becoming more real than ever.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[goldenhurricane2]

How long until that model isn’t sustainable for half of those power conferences? Why not just cut to the ultimate goal of all this: a super duper power league (nfl lite) with 32 teams. Blue bloods only. Let them play by their rules and let the rest of us do our thing.

Does anyone really think Boston college, wake forest, Indiana, northwestern, Vanderbilt, Duke, Kentucky, Mississippi state, Houston, etc belong on the field with Alabama, Ohio state, Oklahoma, Texas, Michigan, Georgia, etc more than we do? Those programs are WAY closer to us than they are to the blue bloods.

When all this shakes out, I hope we’re left standing with our peers and regional rivals (non-blue bloods) in a league that is still relevant, earns tv revenue, and competes for an NCAA championship at the highest level.

This is all football perspective. Basketball is a little less volatile and only matters a tiny bit in the grand scheme of all this (to the big boys anyway).

 

[aTUfan]

How long until that model isn’t sustainable for half of those power conferences? Why not just cut to the ultimate goal of all this: a super duper power league (nfl lite) with 32 teams. Blue bloods only. Let them play by their rules and let the rest of us do our thing.

Does anyone really think Boston college, wake forest, Indiana, northwestern, Vanderbilt, Duke, Kentucky, Mississippi state, Houston, etc belong on the field with Alabama, Ohio state, Oklahoma, Texas, Michigan, Georgia, etc more than we do? Those programs are WAY closer to us than they are to the blue bloods.

When all this shakes out, I hope we’re left standing with our peers and regional rivals (non-blue bloods) in a league that is still relevant, earns tv revenue, and competes for an NCAA championship at the highest level.

This is all football perspective. Basketball is a little less volatile and only matters a tiny bit in the grand scheme of all this (to the big boys anyway).

Eight, 10 team geographic conferences in each league.
play every one in your conference, 9 games, and 3 nc; no conference championship game, each league has a 32 team playoff. botton 3 in each upper conference is replaced by top team in lower league.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

Eight, 10 team geographic conferences in each league.
play every one in your conference, 9 games, and 3 nc; no conference championship game, each league has a 32 team playoff. botton 3 in each upper conference is replaced by top team in lower league.

Will never happen.

 

[Tu Geo]

I don't believe the ACC and Big XII will ever get left behind, they won't generate the revenue of the Big10/SEC, but they will still have the same access and opportunities to compete for playoff dollars.

IMO, the horse left the barn when the NCAA lost control of college football. It seems like only Anti-Trust lawsuits can even attempt to reign the horse back in. This all got out of control when no caps were placed on expansion and revenues. The brand names simply got richer.

The current course seems to be that if G5 programs are going to compete, there may need to be some type of consolidation among the G5 Conferences, such as a EAST/WEST Super Conference. Does TU have a seat at the table in such as alignment? I assume once FSU and Clemson leave the ACC, there will be another dramatic shift among the G5 conferences again.

just my .02

TX

G5 will get one playoff spot 12th this year. But they will expand to 16 soon is my guess and then the G5 will get the # 16 spot LOL.

GO TU!!!!

 

[aTUfan]

Will never happen.

bottom feeders in the upper league don't deserve to stay there and ride the coattails.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

bottom feeders in the upper league don't deserve to stay there and ride the coattails.

You’re absolutely right.

But it will still never happen.

 

[HuffyCane]

If you go back and look about three years ago when this started to happen when Red River left the Big 12, I was adamant that there would be wilderness years for TU. Eventually we would be given a choice, a significantly less prominent conference and perhaps division or joining a regional conference of schools left over from the Big 12 and the ACC that play in less desirable time slots as alternative programming to the Big 2. A “counter conference” if you will with innovative rules, playoff format and focus on offense/scoring. I still think that will happen. It might be ten years, and might be a bit of wishful thinking, but I thought/think that’s the direction this is headed and no development in the last 3 years has changed that initial assessment.

We would fit nicely in a league that is similar to what MLS is to soccer fans in the USA. Alternative/supplemental programming for soccer fans who want to watch/gamble additional games with slightly different rules, parity protections and a quality of player slightly lower than the elite, as well as local fans of the club who want to enjoy the sport live.

I don’t want to watch us lose at midnight on Saturday to Texas Tech, or Kansas State on Wednesday night at 9:15 while some WWE style announcer shouts in the microphone, but we would be a commodity in demand for that.

I saw the other day that Arkansas is being forced to play Arkansas State for the first time ever in football by their legislature to spread some of the money around. Similar legislation should be pursued in Oklahoma. The financial impact to those schools visiting TU is significant for the City of Tulsa and never discussed. The state economy should not be suffering because spoiled people in Stillwater would rather play a similar opponent in Tampa for no other reason than optics and a couple of donors want to fish before the game.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

If you go back and look about three years ago when this started to happen when Red River left the Big 12, I was adamant that there would be wilderness years for TU. Eventually we would be given a choice, a significantly less prominent conference and perhaps division or joining a regional conference of schools left over from the Big 12 and the ACC that play in less desirable time slots as alternative programming to the Big 2. A “counter conference” if you will with innovative rules, playoff format and focus on offense/scoring. I still think that will happen. It might be ten years, and might be a bit of wishful thinking, but I thought/think that’s the direction this is headed and no development in the last 3 years has changed that initial assessment.

We would fit nicely in a league that is similar to what MLS is to soccer fans in the USA. Alternative/supplemental programming for soccer fans who want to watch/gamble additional games with slightly different rules, parity protections and a quality of player slightly lower than the elite, as well as local fans of the club who want to enjoy the sport live.

I don’t want to watch us lose at midnight on Saturday to Texas Tech, or Kansas State on Wednesday night at 9:15 while some WWE style announcer shouts in the microphone, but we would be a commodity in demand for that.

I saw the other day that Arkansas is being forced to play Arkansas State for the first time ever in football by their legislature to spread some of the money around. Similar legislation should be pursued in Oklahoma. The financial impact to those schools visiting TU is significant for the City of Tulsa and never discussed. The state economy should not be suffering because spoiled people in Stillwater would rather play a similar opponent in Tampa for no other reason than optics and a couple of donors want to fish before the game.

Carson has been pretty clear about his support for athletics: using the phrase “front door of the university”

Athletics gets TU noticed by more eyes than any other method of marketing… by far. The majority of that is because we play D1 athletics, mainly FBS football.

There have been studies that support the theory that athletic success (football and basketball) equate to higher application rates. But one could reasonably assume that the success would have to matter for it to be appealing to college applicants. Winning on the “big stage” is what matters. Winning at the fcs (or lower) level (in football) matters WAY less. Sure it’s nice to say your institution did well in athletics, but when it’s not top level athletics, it just doesn’t matter nearly as much. People want to see their institution recognized, via sports teams, on ESPN/major tv networks. That’s what ties all this together:

Meaningful success + meaningful exposure

If the opportunity for either of those goes away, then it’s going to be REALLY hard for TU to continue on a positive path. The whole framework of the university would likely have to shift towards a Washington University (in Missouri) type of model.

 

[HuffyCane]

Carson has been pretty clear about his support for athletics: using the phrase “front door of the university”

Athletics gets TU noticed by more eyes than any other method of marketing… by far. The majority of that is because we play D1 athletics, mainly FBS football.

There have been studies that support the theory that athletic success (football and basketball) equate to higher application rates. But one could reasonably assume that the success would have to matter for it to be appealing to college applicants. Winning on the “big stage” is what matters. Winning at the fcs (or lower) level (in football) matters WAY less. Sure it’s nice to say your institution did well in athletics, but when it’s not top level athletics, it just doesn’t matter nearly as much. People want to see their institution recognized, via sports teams, on ESPN/major tv networks. That’s what ties all this together:

Meaningful success + meaningful exposure

If the opportunity for either of those goes away, then it’s going to be REALLY hard for TU to continue on a positive path. The whole framework of the university would likely have to shift towards a Washington University (in Missouri) type of model.

This is exactly right. It will fundamentally change the business model and could result in the closure of the University.

 

[TU_BLA]

Instead of them forming their own league, let's form our own league. How is that any different. Yeah, we should do exactly what they've been wanting us to do, and never compete with any of them again. Become 2nd tier, which essentially makes us no better than 3rd tier. D2 and D3 are synonymous. This isn't improving things, it is giving in to what they have always wanted, us on the outside, and them eliminating us from sharing ANY of their money. It's going in this direction anyway, but we should never see it as a good solution to accept what is probably going to happen eventually. Just because we are trying to dress the wolf in sheeps clothing doesn't suddenly make it good.

I actually think it opens up the possibility of an anti trust case against the P4s since there will be fewer of those schools getting about 75% of the broadcast $. Plus all the rules work in the favor of the P4s and it actually creates a competition gap. Right now with the current agreements, the P4s are throwing just enough $ to the G5s with the caveat that they don't sue for antitrust. This may be a pre-emptive move to put the P4s and ESPN on notice they're going to have to fork over more $ to the G5s. Let's hope that case gets heard by a judge from Boise who hates that the Broncos are getting left behind in this BS.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

This is exactly right. It will fundamentally change the business model and could result in the closure of the University.

**sad hurricane noises**

 

[TU_BLA]

If the opportunity for either of those goes away, then it’s going to be REALLY hard for TU to continue on a positive path. The whole framework of the university would likely have to shift towards a Washington University (in Missouri) type of model.

Being like WashU or Tufts or any other D3 that excels both in athletics and academically is not necessarily a terrible thing. WashU is a great school. Tufts is an excellent academic school and it's successful athletically as one of the more successful D3 athletic depts. in the country (won several national championships over the past few years as well as annually top 10 or so in the D3 Directors Cup (WashU was 5, Tufts was 9, MIT was 6th). Is it what we all want? No, but if TU got its academic profile to the level of those schools and competed in D3, TU would be fine.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

Being like WashU or Tufts or any other D3 that excels both in athletics and academically is not necessarily a terrible thing. WashU is a great school. Tufts is an excellent academic school and it's successful athletically as one of the more successful D3 athletic depts. in the country (won several national championships over the past few years as well as annually top 10 or so in the D3 Directors Cup (WashU was 5, Tufts was 9, MIT was 6th). Is it what we all want? No, but if TU got its academic profile to the level of those schools and competed in D3, TU would be fine.

No one gives a flying f about tufts or WashU athletics.

Academics? Absolutely.

But let’s not try to polish a turd here.

 

[TUMU]

This is exactly right. It will fundamentally change the business model and could result in the closure of the University.

What would happen with all the Endowment money if the University closed?

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

I saw the other day that Arkansas is being forced to play Arkansas State for the first time ever in football by their legislature to spread some of the money around. Similar legislation should be pursued in Oklahoma. The financial impact to those schools visiting TU is significant for the City of Tulsa and never discussed. The state economy should not be suffering because spoiled people in Stillwater would rather play a similar opponent in Tampa for no other reason than optics and a couple of donors want to fish before the game.

OU and OSU both already play here. Why would the legislature have to get involved for events that already occur.

If anything, they may have to get involved if they want those two schools to play anytime soon.

 

[TU_BLA]

No one gives a flying f about tufts or WashU athletics.

Academics? Absolutely.

But let’s not try to polish a turd here.

I'm saying if you have to make a choice, there are worse options, like shuttering the university just because you can't play D1

 

[TU_BLA]

OU and OSU both already play here. Why would the legislature have to get involved for events that already occur.

If anything, they may have to get involved if they want those two schools to play anytime soon.

There's also a big difference between TU and Arkansas State. The OKLeg has no duty to do anything to help TU since it is a private institution. The Arkansas legislature is required by law to make sure Ark State succeeds as a university.

 

[TU_BLA]

No one gives a flying f about tufts or WashU athletics.

Academics? Absolutely.

But let’s not try to polish a turd here.

And the students that go to the universities do care as do the alumni...in both cases there are more of each of those than there are for TU.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

And the students that go to the universities do care as do the alumni...in both cases there are more of each of those than there are for TU.

There’s a pretty vast spectrum of “caring” - I’m sure the students and alumni don’t want their schools athletics to suck… that’s not rocket science.

But a couple thousand people watching a tufts home football game and being happy they won is vastly different than seeing your institution play on ESPN against high level competition.

 

[dougheffking]

There’s a pretty vast spectrum of “caring” - I’m sure the students and alumni don’t want their schools athletics to suck… that’s not rocket science.

But a couple thousand people watching a tufts home football game and being happy they won is vastly different than seeing your institution play on ESPN against high level competition.

I can't believe he's trying to argue that TU will be cared about if they go the route of Tufts.

Breh, no one cares AT ALL about Tufts and you're just yelling at a wall trying to argue that they do.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

OU and OSU both already play here. Why would the legislature have to get involved for events that already occur.

If anything, they may have to get involved if they want those two schools to play each other anytime soon.

 

[HuffyCane]

Being like WashU or Tufts or any other D3 that excels both in athletics and academically is not necessarily a terrible thing. WashU is a great school. Tufts is an excellent academic school and it's successful athletically as one of the more successful D3 athletic depts. in the country (won several national championships over the past few years as well as annually top 10 or so in the D3 Directors Cup (WashU was 5, Tufts was 9, MIT was 6th). Is it what we all want? No, but if TU got its academic profile to the level of those schools and competed in D3, TU would be fine.

There’s more kids to recruit at that level than at the G5 level and more of them pay cash.

 

[HuffyCane]

There’s a pretty vast spectrum of “caring” - I’m sure the students and alumni don’t want their schools athletics to suck… that’s not rocket science.

But a couple thousand people watching a tufts whome football game and being happy they won is vastly different than seeing your institution play on ESPN against high level competition.

Correct. Sports at TU is the front door because that’s all that people see driving by and few would drive by but for sports.

It’s an infomercial that gets us cable TV access. And the illusion of status.

If you go to D3, budgets in some sports would actually increase. We would be unable to sustain football and basketball.

 

[HuffyCane]

There's also a big difference between TU and Arkansas State. The OKLeg has no duty to do anything to help TU since it is a private institution. The Arkansas legislature is required by law to make sure Ark State succeeds as a university.

They don’t have to help TU and shouldn’t. I wouldn’t want the help because of the commitment that would take.

But they do have a duty to collect as much tax revenue as possible. And they aren’t doing that when they allow OU and OSU to fail to schedule games in Tulsa that boosts the local tourist tax receipts and instead allow it to be paid to California or wherever.

There’s nothing wrong with the legislature suggesting the OSU athletic department schedule games in Tulsa at the same meeting they consider the OSU budget request to patch the hole in the roof of their library.

 

[HuffyCane]

OU and OSU both already play here. Why would the legislature have to get involved for events that already occur.

If anything, they may have to get involved if they want those two schools to play anytime soon.

And they should get involved and probably will. And future scheduling in Tulsa to help the local economy should be part of that conversation.

There’s no guarantee any of those games currently scheduled will be played and with conference and playoff formats changing, it’s possibly/likely(?) some or all of them won’t be played. And few if any future games will be played.

We need to get out in front of that issue and phrase it as it truly is: those games not being played hurts the city and we shouldn’t allow that anymore than the pressure the City of Norman and the City of Stillwater put on OU and OSU when they only schedule 5 or 6 home games instead of 7.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

Correct. Sports at TU is the front door because that’s all that people see driving by and few would drive by but for sports.

It’s an infomercial that gets us cable TV access. And the illusion of status.

If you go to D3, budgets in some sports would actually increase. We would be unable to sustain football and basketball.

I’d argue that the illusion is relative too - we’re on ESPN. A bunch of others aren’t. That alone is proof of status.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

wtf is this bs??

 

[lawpoke87]

And they should get involved and probably will. And future scheduling in Tulsa to help the local economy should be part of that conversation.

There’s no guarantee any of those games currently scheduled will be played and with conference and playoff formats changing, it’s possibly/likely(?) some or all of them won’t be played. And few if any future games will be played.

We need to get out in front of that issue and phrase it as it truly is: those games not being played hurts the city and we shouldn’t allow that anymore than the pressure the City of Norman and the City of Stillwater put on OU and OSU when they only schedule 5 or 6 home games instead of 7.

Might we be overstating the affect on the Tulsa economy regarding hosting OSU and OU in football? The stadium seats at most 30k. We average what….18-20k? How many of those additional 10-12k don’t already live in the Tulsa area? The game certainly helps fill TU coffers with higher ticket prices and larger attendance. However, I’m not sure I see the large boost to the City of Tulsa being discussed given the domicile of those additional attendees.

 

[HuffyCane]

Might we be overstating the affect on the Tulsa economy regarding hosting OSU and OU in football? The stadium seats at most 30k. We average what….18-20k? How many of those additional 10-12k don’t already live in the Tulsa area? The game certainly helps fill TU coffers with higher ticket prices and larger attendance. However, I’m not sure I see the large boost to the City of Tulsa being discussed given the domicile of those additional attendees.

The sales tax alone on those tickets justifies City fathers crying foul. I haven’t looked at hotel occupancy that weekend but someone should. It’s dismal otherwise. Maybe if it was consistently scheduled it would have more of an impact. Twice as many people attend the Cocktail Party as go in to watch the game. They sit on the lawn and tailgate or watch on the big screen. They come for the atmosphere and party. Schedule it. Build it. The Goat Ropers will come.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Might we be overstating the affect on the Tulsa economy regarding hosting OSU and OU in football? The stadium seats at most 30k. We average what….18-20k? How many of those additional 10-12k don’t already live in the Tulsa area? The game certainly helps fill TU coffers with higher ticket prices and larger attendance. However, I’m not sure I see the large boost to the City of Tulsa being discussed given the domicile of those additional attendees.

Even if you don't consider bar and hotel patronage, the ticket price + concessions for even half those attendees(6k) is probably gonna be around 400,000. And it's going to be Tulsan's spending money when they would stay in for the evening is more taxes. So it is like us adding another high dollar game with high attendance to our schedule. Instead of it taking place in Stillwater or Norman.