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chito_and_leon

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Being his own OC got him in trouble a lot. I don’t how many times we got delay of game because he wouldn’t get the play in fast enough. He was also so predictable with 3rd or 4th and short it was a run up the middle everytime He did do a little better this year but I was so tired of him. His team led the nation in penalties in most years and special teams was terrible. Even his last game we gave up a punt return for a touchdown.
One thing that connects all our bad coaches is that they've been hard-headed and stubborn and refused to admit they were wrong and needed to change even when it was obvious. Blankenship, Wojick, Haith, Monty. JP was probably the exception. Graham on the other hand was a survivor, he gave up the "I'm going to be an OC" thing after a year and brought in someone who wasn't just a paycheck (looking at you and your kid, Blank). He cared more about succeeding than going to his grave proving he was smarter than everyone else.
 

chito_and_leon

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I understand Dane's loyalty and appreciate his perspective. But in many ways big time sports (and yes, Tulsa is big time sports) is a game of selling hope. Monty reached his limit in the hope category after 8 years. So we need to try something new to keep the interest level up.
We have the saying "the inmates are running the asylum" for a reason. You don't have players pick coaches any more than you have employees pick the CEO.

I take comfort in knowing that the next guy will almost certainly not be worse than Monty. What's the downside?
 

TU_BLA

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One thing that connects all our bad coaches is that they've been hard-headed and stubborn and refused to admit they were wrong and needed to change even when it was obvious. Blankenship, Wojick, Haith, Monty. JP was probably the exception. Graham on the other hand was a survivor, he gave up the "I'm going to be an OC" thing after a year and brought in someone who wasn't just a paycheck (looking at you and your kid, Blank). He cared more about succeeding than going to his grave proving he was smarter than everyone else.
JP was the only one in over his head in terms of being a college head coach. I don't think he had a ton of responsibility on Self's staff and Peterson's staff was just inept. I heard many times how Pooh or Kwaanza would bring in a higher level recruit and they wouldn't commit because Phillips' personality (or lack of) just didn't grab them.
 

Gmoney4WW

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JP was the only one in over his head in terms of being a college head coach. I don't think he had a ton of responsibility on Self's staff and Peterson's staff was just inept. I heard many times how Pooh or Kwaanza would bring in a higher level recruit and they wouldn't commit because Phillips' personality (or lack of) just didn't grab them.
I love him and all, but that was the biggest blunder of Dickson's career at TU, hiring Phillips.
 
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TU1NNJ

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Nice succinct summary of his problems on the field.
Also did we ever get under center inside the 5 yard line? Too many times inside the 5 we settled for fg’s or got stuffed. The only real creativity in that set was the pass to Hall against Temple.
 

Henry Kendall

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Also did we ever get under center inside the 5 yard line? Too many times inside the 5 we settled for fg’s or got stuffed. The only real creativity in that set was the pass to Hall against Temple.
Ok, I never played real football so I have a question about that. These days pretty much everyone uses a single RB, goal line or not. What I don’t understand is that it seems to me having another back, maybe a FB, gives the ball carrier an extra blocker in front of him, to pick up whoever the line missed. I guess I don’t understand why they all went to a single back all the time.
 

TU1NNJ

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Ok, I never played real football so I have a question about that. These days pretty much everyone uses a single RB, goal line or not. What I don’t understand is that it seems to me having another back, maybe a FB, gives the ball carrier an extra blocker in front of him, to pick up whoever the line missed. I guess I don’t understand why they all went to a single back all the time.
Many teams that run out of shotgun still go under center inside the 5 yard line. They also bring in a big FB or put a linemen or TE as a blocking back. You can still run an RPO from that set but you can also power ahead without the QB/RB being another 5/7 yards back.
 
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Gmoney4WW

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Rick wasn’t the AD then it was Judy.

Dickson was not at TU when Phillips was hired. I think Judy was still the AD.
Sorry bout that. Remembered it was Judy, but was in a hurry to get to the bar, late for the WC.
Double checked that it was judy and it brought up Rick. Should have waited to check it out at the bar.
 

Gmoney4WW

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Philips was Judy by the AD around 5 ADs ago. It kind of sounds like you don't know much but are trying to make out like you do.
Sorry bout that. Remembered it was Judy, but was in a hurry to get to the bar, late for the WC.
Double checked that it was judy and it brought up Rick. Should have waited to check it out at the bar.
I was going to school in '94 when Dickson went to Washington, I have been a fan since'81, and an alumni for nearly 30 years. I would assume you would believe me when I said what happened in my above quoted post. But if I didn't remember correctly,(which I did) it would not be a sign of not knowing much, but a sign of poor memory.

Now if you want to talk about what I don't remember, then we can talk about what happened in between Rick and Judy. I don't recall who was the athletic director between Rick, who left in '94, and Judy who was hired in '97. But then that was the period right after my stroke. So I think I've got some latitude for not remembering that.
 
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drboobay

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I was going to school in '94 when Dickson went to Washington, I have been a fan since'81, and an alumni for nearly 30 years. I would assume you would believe me when I said what happened in my above quoted post. But if I didn't remember correctly,(which I did) it would not be a sign of not knowing much, but a sign of poor memory.

Now if you want to talk about what I don't remember, then we can talk about what happened in between Rick and Judy. I don't recall who was the athletic director between Rick, who left in '94, and Judy who was hired in '97. But then that was the period right after my stroke. So I think I've got some latitude for not remembering that.
I do not remember either and had no stroke.
 

Gmoney4WW

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I do not remember either and had no stroke.
Yeah I should have taken that post down, or corrected it when I got to the bar. I knew it was Judy when I thought about it for a sec, while driving to the bar. But I got inside and forgot about it when I started watching the game. I didn't even realize the game started in a couple of minutes, until I looked at the time while I was typing that post.
 

Gmoney4WW

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I thought that Judy succeeded Rick with no break in between.
I did too, but I was looking it up for exact years, about when Rick left, and I saw where Macleod was hired in '97. (as A.D.) I don't remember if she was interim director, or somebody else was the director then. If you recall, Judy was at the university for several years before she was hired as athletic director.
 

chito_and_leon

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Sorry bout that. Remembered it was Judy, but was in a hurry to get to the bar, late for the WC.
Double checked that it was judy and it brought up Rick. Should have waited to check it out at the bar.
Meh, it's not the ACT, no points are deducted for a wrong answer. Sometimes it's easier just to write down what comes to mind and count on some smart-A to fact check it for you.
 
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goldenhurricane2

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Also doesn't help when local media folks continually take shots at TU with backhanded compliments or flat out crappy comments.
 
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goldenhurricane2

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I find the attitude toward TU by the local media, and even some of our so-called fans to be puzzling and infuriating. Makes me want to win, and break through the ceiling, even more.
100% - i still don't understand the hate TU gets for locals sometimes.
 

noble cane

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100% - i still don't understand the hate TU gets for locals sometimes.
A lot of it is the public school vs private school thing.. look at the current HS football playoffs.. private schools are winning championships even with all of the handicaps the OSSAA are putting on them... and some of it is that TU has become more elitist since the days of Paschall Twyman..
 

astonmartin708

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Seen someone that was a Monty supporter post this morning that TU will not be the same without Monty ….. I hope she is right !
One thing I will say is that Monty’s exit has been infinitely nicer than Blankenship’s.
 

chito_and_leon

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This is also weird to me. TU is a great school, but it never felt elitist. Further - I think there’s been a bigger push to involve the community outside of alumni than there ever has been since Brad got here
If they mean that we feel superior intellectually and culturally to a lot of the yokels at OSU, then, well, guilty as charged.
 

rusty-c

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A lot of it is the public school vs private school thing.. look at the current HS football playoffs.. private schools are winning championships even with all of the handicaps the OSSAA are putting on them... and some of it is that TU has become more elitist since the days of Paschall Twyman..
Universities and the OSSAA are completely different or even in the same universe. Those “handicaps” they have placed, and the state legislature, are the only reasons the public schools haven’t completely shut down private schools competing for OSSAA championships. If this was by Texas rules they could play through the season, but when playoffs start it’s off to the private division where they recognize that there is a difference. Though OSSAA has tried to put in place some level of regulation and boundaries of enrollment the playing field between public and private is still very much out of balance. Similar of course could be said for the large metro districts, but at least the family is required to pick up and move or the kid sits for a year. Not privates…. If your in the theoretical boundary the kid sits 15 days and is good to go.

Most importantly private schools don’t have to educate everyone. They have total control over their enrollment number and composition. Meaning don’t go looking for their special education programs or academic intervention programs because they don’t exist since they are not required to offer those and other costly programs. What if a kids being a discipline problem? See ya…. Off to a different private or the public if all those are burnt through. Public school are required to educate all without exception.
 

noble cane

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Universities and the OSSAA are completely different or even in the same universe. Those “handicaps” they have placed, and the state legislature, are the only reasons the public schools haven’t completely shut down private schools competing for OSSAA championships. If this was by Texas rules they could play through the season, but when playoffs start it’s off to the private division where they recognize that there is a difference. Though OSSAA has tried to put in place some level of regulation and boundaries of enrollment the playing field between public and private is still very much out of balance. Similar of course could be said for the large metro districts, but at least the family is required to pick up and move or the kid sits for a year. Not privates…. If your in the theoretical boundary the kid sits 15 days and is good to go.

Most importantly private schools don’t have to educate everyone. They have total control over their enrollment number and composition. Meaning don’t go looking for their special education programs or academic intervention programs because they don’t exist since they are not required to offer those and other costly programs. What if a kids being a discipline problem? See ya…. Off to a different private or the public if all those are burnt through. Public school are required to educate all without exception.
You just made my point... lots of public vs. private school animosity..

When my son was in school here in Noble, I caught hell from teachers and the Superintendent for being a private school grad and being out of touch with the quality of PSEd.. even though what i was asking for was the same quality of ED that I got at Tulsa Memorial...
 

astonmartin708

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If they mean that we feel superior intellectually and culturally to a lot of the yokels at OSU, then, well, guilty as charged.
My wife was from Tulsa and went to OSU. She calls us elitist all the time.

Then again she also talks about the times in Stillwater when the wind blew just right and the odor of the stockyards wafted across campus.

If elitist is just the fact that our campus didn’t smell like cow $hit then yeah… I guess we’re a bit elitist.
 

TU Pilot

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My wife was from Tulsa and went to OSU. She calls us elitist all the time.

Then again she also talks about the times in Stillwater when the wind blew just right and the odor of the stockyards wafted across campus.

If elitist is just the fact that our campus didn’t smell like cow $hit then yeah… I guess we’re a bit elitist.
Having gone through OSU ROTC while at TU, I will say the only time I embraced the notion that I was "elitist" was when the OSU guys would talk crap to me and the other TU cadets. In fact, that's the only reason I've ever seen a TU person act "elitist" (around others): when the OU/OSU folks instigate it by crapping on our alma mater (and vastly superior educational entity).

They hate us 'cuz they ain't us! :p
 
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TU 1978

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If elitist is just the fact that our campus didn’t smell like cow $hit then yeah… I guess we’re a bit elitist.
Of course in Tulsa when the wind is out of the right direction you can smell the refineries. Both cases could be called “the smell of money”.
 
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rusty-c

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You just made my point... lots of public vs. private school animosity..

When my son was in school here in Noble, I caught hell from teachers and the Superintendent for being a private school grad and being out of touch with the quality of PSEd.. even though what i was asking for was the same quality of ED that I got at Tulsa Memorial...
I get it, and depending on your age, when you went through Memorial HS you received a damn fine education. Fact is several of the TPS HS were amongst the finest PS in the country, and rivaled most private high schools, until the mass exodus of the oil industry, and Booker T Washington is the only TPS school still near that level. In other words, the demographic and resources took a major hit.

Speaking of myself, I believe that I received an outstanding public school education from one of the rural suburban schools, and I graduated in 1987. I was fully prepared by them to be successful when I walked into my first class at TU. However, that was then and this is now, and the federal and state regulation in public schools really hampers the ability of public schools to proivide that level of education today. Those mandates mean that incredible amounts of resources are expended for transportation, nutrition, and to provide services to kids that wouldn't be admitted to the majority of private secondary schools. Thus, the top students are often starved of opportunities in public schools due to resources, or being packed into classes with kids that either shouldn't or don't want to be there. By no means am I saying that special needs students shouldn't receive a quality education, or kids having no plans of attending a university should not be educated. I'm saying that they should receive an education that gives them the best opportunity to be productive in society after graduation; one that fits their needs and not is not detrimental to students on a different path. In an ideal world it should not be one size fits all. This can be done in very large district like Owasso, Jenks, Union, Bixby, etc. due to the sheer number of students those district serve, but it is much more difficult when the student population is smaller in schools such as Noble and those that are much smaller.

Before I left the profession, I taught for 25 years in public schools (mostly is a district similar to Noble) and the programs that I had the privilege of leading were very successful and far beyond that of other programs in the school. My students regularly performed at a level above that of the vast majority of the largest districts in the state, but I was teaching instrumental music, which is an elective course. In other words, students involved in my program were there as a privilege and not a requirement and we were able to achieve at a level that was far beyond that of the required core of mathematics, science, english, and history where my students were often frustrated and felt limited by the environment, lack individualized attention, and resources they were receiving. They put in the time and work, and were limited only by the effort they chose to expend in that aspect of their education.

Private schools have a clear advantage over public at the secondary level due to their selective nature in nearly all aspects. Same can be said with regards to the academic side at the university level, however the script is certainly flipped with regards to athletics at the university level where public dollars support those massive machines at schools like Oklahoma, Alabama, and Texas.

I'm proud to say that I received an outstanding education in public schools that set me up for an elite education at the University of Tulsa. TU is elite, and we should be proud of that, but it certainly isn't for everyone and there are barriers in place that assure that.
 

chito_and_leon

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Universities and the OSSAA are completely different or even in the same universe. Those “handicaps” they have placed, and the state legislature, are the only reasons the public schools haven’t completely shut down private schools competing for OSSAA championships. If this was by Texas rules they could play through the season, but when playoffs start it’s off to the private division where they recognize that there is a difference. Though OSSAA has tried to put in place some level of regulation and boundaries of enrollment the playing field between public and private is still very much out of balance. Similar of course could be said for the large metro districts, but at least the family is required to pick up and move or the kid sits for a year. Not privates…. If your in the theoretical boundary the kid sits 15 days and is good to go.

Most importantly private schools don’t have to educate everyone. They have total control over their enrollment number and composition. Meaning don’t go looking for their special education programs or academic intervention programs because they don’t exist since they are not required to offer those and other costly programs. What if a kids being a discipline problem? See ya…. Off to a different private or the public if all those are burnt through. Public school are required to educate all without exception.
We were paying $35k a year for private school, elementary and middle school, that turned out to be much worse than the education my kids are getting at a public school in a state that does not start with Okla and end with homa. Private schools have a lot of their own serious problems that make it hard them to provide a good education. In states that actually care about education, public schools often will be as good or better than private.
 

rusty-c

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We were paying $35k a year for private school, elementary and middle school, that turned out to be much worse than the education my kids are getting at a public school in a state that does not start with Okla and end with homa. Private schools have a lot of their own serious problems that make it hard them to provide a good education. In states that actually care about education, public schools often will be as good or better than private.
I certainly understand where you’re coming from, and yes, many private schools have issues and challenges. There are certainly large differences in the parochial versus for profit privates or those that are created to indoctrinate or push a certain agenda.

The real disparity starts to show in later elementary, is full blown at the middle school level and often a lost cause at the high school levels in Oklahoma. Hell, charter schools are essentially public sponsored private schools and they’re a disaster. Oklahoma has issues that run far deeper than the schools, but that is certainly where you see the results of those issues.
 

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