Elephant in the Room

[goldenhurricane2]

This “debate” is going to go nowhere. No one from either side is going to concede to ANY point of view of the opposite side of this argument bc everyone is so damn hardheaded these days. Nothing is ever black or white, but rather a shade of gray (hopefully not 50 of them) in the middle.

Anywho... lets get back to that elephant in the room: which doesn’t seem all that important today to tomorrow. I hope you all enjoy some time with your families over the next couple of days and the only elephants you have to worry about are the pink variety that may appear from a few too many natty lights

 

[cmullinsTU]

For all those throwing the 1st amendment in my face(probably college grads all), how ironic is it that today, about the only place in the country where freedom of speech is NOT permitted is on college campuses across the country if you are a conservative. Do not deny it! (Sorry, should have been crossfire)

Thank you for your service. I’d like to apologize for calling you ignorant last night, that was rude of me. We may not agree on the kneeling topic but I do agree about college campuses, that has really changed even since I was in college (< 10 years ago).

 

[TULSARISING]

I served in the United States Marine Corps so that he has the right to take a knee. Guess what, thats what it means to live in a free country.

And I have the right to disagree with it

 

[Chris Harmon]

Milton Howell made very little impact?

TU really only got one season out of him. Maybe I shouldn't have said "very little", because he had a solid senior season, but his junior season was wasted.

Howell was a highly-rated dual-threat QB out of Navarro Junior College, and in his first season at TU, he played a little receiver but saw most of his time on special teams.

Then in spring ball before his senior season, he moved to safety, and then to cornerback, where he stuck. He had a solid season as a senior, with 49 tackles and four interceptions.

So he had an impact as a senior, and almost no impact as a junior.

 

[TULSARISING]

TU really only got one season out of him. Maybe I shouldn't have said "very little", because he had a solid senior season, but his junior season was wasted.

Howell was a highly-rated dual-threat QB out of Navarro Junior College, and in his first season at TU, he played a little receiver but saw most of his time on special teams.

Then in spring ball before his senior season, he moved to safety, and then to cornerback, where he stuck. He had a solid season as a senior, with 49 tackles and four interceptions.

So he had an impact as a senior, and almost no impact as a junior.

So you see Malik getting immediate playing time ?

 

[Raisin_Cane]

TU really only got one season out of him. Maybe I shouldn't have said "very little", because he had a solid senior season, but his junior season was wasted.

Howell was a highly-rated dual-threat QB out of Navarro Junior College, and in his first season at TU, he played a little receiver but saw most of his time on special teams.

Then in spring ball before his senior season, he moved to safety, and then to cornerback, where he stuck. He had a solid season as a senior, with 49 tackles and four interceptions.

So he had an impact as a senior, and almost no impact as a junior.

Wasn’t it Howell who got burned on the last play of the armed forces bowl?

 

[URedskin54]

I’ve never seen someone give more effort on special teams than that dude. Teams actually had to start scheming for him because he got down the field so fast kickoffs and just blew people up

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

I’ve never seen someone give more effort on special teams than that dude.

Billy Cole

 

[lynesrun]

I served in the United States Marine Corps so that he has the right to take a knee. Guess what, thats what it means to live in a free country.

i also served in the usmc as a combat veteran in Vietnam. I agree with you 100% that he and everyone else has the right to take a knee. i may not agree with taking a knee, but I would never, ever say anything to anyone about their first amendment right. I also agree with tume of his post on page 1.

 

[okie51]

My Dad Navy and two Uncles Army severed in WWII and I served Army years after. One Uncle helped recover the dead at Pearl the other Uncle was in the Battle of the Bulge as a medic. Yes, they served for freedom and liberty for everyone in the country protests and all.

This country is one of the only places in the world the very poorest person can make it in life through sports. Free education, life connections, coaching, pro sports and more. Vets kept it that way. The National Anthem standing, singing and removing of hats is in honor of the Vets and Freedom.
Its not the Vets that deserve being protested or the Anthem. Ten percent or less of the cops Yes, Hollywood Yes, Media Yes, Education Yes. Government yes and a lot of things. Every country has problems with race, the rich and poor.
Take the advantages through sports, education and pro ball to make a difference. Become a leader in the community an advocate for the cause.

Merry Christmas and thank God, the USA and the Vets that served.

 

[quincy101]

Billy Cole was & always will be my fav special teams guy in TU history. On punt coverage or kick-offs, he would always be the first one down, the returner would juke left,juke right & WHAM, Billy would lay him out, usually for a loss & very often cause a fumble(which naturally he would recover himself). What a playa!

Well, in expressing my opinion, I've managed to p1ss off some TU football fans, lefty college grads, a few vets on here(who I thought might be a little more upset about people dissing the flag they served under), strict constructionists, & that partride in a pear treeeee! Sorry bout that.

BTW, take a look at the USS Downes(& the Cassin next to it) both in dry dock on 12/07/1941. My dad was a gunner's mate on the Downes & got blown off the deck shooting a 45 pistol at Japanese planes. They were trying to bomb, strafe & torpedo the USS Pennsylvania in dry dock. They missed the Pennsy & just blew the hell out of both those tiny destroyers. That's a pretty famous picture of PH Day.

Please forgive me guys & have a merry Christmas. TU Football: 1st,last,always

Billy Cole

 

[Tulsafanzz]

Billy Cole was my favorite special teams player, too. It was amazing how often he made big tackles on kickoffs & punts. You know the other team had been told to watch out for #46, but he’d get through & nail the returner anyway!

 

[HuffyCane]

Cole was a good story. A tweener who ate his way out of the depth chart battle at corner only to be held off the field at LB by future Chicago Bear Barry Minter (Who himself ate his way up from safety and actually gained speed). Cole still had the mental attitude to find a way to have an impact on the outcome of several games. What a player.

 

[TU_BLA]

It’s very very hard these days to get juco Kids in to TU. TU has to move on from quite a number of talented kids this cycle because they either couldn’t get in here or would need another semester of work to get the credits necessary. And when it comes to JUCOs who you want to make an impact in the fall, you need them here for spring practice and conditioning. There’s still a ton of quality in who they got though. Yohance Burnett is definitely my favorite but the defensive linemen have a chance to be really good too.

As far as next year goes and the holes that need to be filled, the most important additions remain the two safeties that we get back from injury. Mitchell & Bunch will be perfect back there and Whitfield will be able to slide back up to his LB spot and continue to thrive.

Whitfield needs to stay at safety

 

[TU_BLA]

I know what they are trying to protest, what I don't get is why would they take a knee for the national anthem as a way to protest. That makes no sense, that's blaming the people who fought for our freedom for something a cop did. ( even if they say they aren't) that's how stupid it is to kneel, JMO though, would prefer to get this convo back on football, did not mean for this to turn into a political debate

Because that’s how the conversation got started...no one notices or really cares about the Facebook post or the Twitter post about the injustices faced by ethnic and racial groups because there are too many of them that it becomes noise. But Colin Kaepernick kneels during the anthem and a reporter asks about it and then it becomes a movement...all of a sudden it gets noticed and people are paying attention. You may not agree with the method, but it worked. There has been more meaningful dialogue about the continued inequalities faced by racial and ethnic groups in the last two years then there had been since 1968.

 

[TULSARISING]

Because that’s how the conversation got started...no one notices or really cares about the Facebook post or the Twitter post about the injustices faced by ethnic and racial groups because there are too many of them that it becomes noise. But Colin Kaepernick kneels during the anthem and a reporter asks about it and then it becomes a movement...all of a sudden it gets noticed and people are paying attention. You may not agree with the method, but it worked. There has been more meaningful dialogue about the continued inequalities faced by racial and ethnic groups in the last two years then there had been since 1968.

I wasn't arguing that, and I'm not arguing the fact that it is their right, however, what many people forget to remember is that just because you have the "right" to do something dosnt make it right or not stupid , as far as getting people's attention, it just pissed more people off then anything

 

[Gmoney4WW]

No matter what they did in protest,(if it got attention) would have pissed off certain people, regardless of what method was used.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

Everyone’s entitled to their opinions on these matters, but discussing them here is just going to end up getting this thread locked. Not sure why we decided to stir this pot again....

 

[Raisin_Cane]

Whitfield needs to stay at safety

He’s good there. But is he better than Bunch when healthy? He’s better physically than Mitchell. But Mitchell is smarter and the defense’s field general (especially without Trent Martin at MLB). I just don’t know who you move (or where to) in order to make room for Whitfield where as Whitfield has the ability to move and succeed.

 

[TULSARISING]

Everyone’s entitled to their opinions on these matters, but discussing them here is just going to end up getting this thread locked. Not sure why we decided to stir this pot again....

I agree, I was just responding to his post he directed at me, would much rather talk about what our team needs to focus on. I'm just wondering if these juco guys will be any improvement

 

[TU_BLA]

I wasn't arguing that, and I'm not arguing the fact that it is their right, however, what many people forget to remember is that just because you have the "right" to do something dosnt make it right or not stupid , as far as getting people's attention, it just pissed more people off then anything

I’m not arguing to whether or not it was right...just that it wa effective at conveying the message intended.

 

[TU_BLA]

Everyone’s entitled to their opinions on these matters, but discussing them here is just going to end up getting this thread locked. Not sure why we decided to stir this pot again....

Sorry...out of pocket for a few and jumped in late. Will stick to football from here on out on this thread

 

[TU_BLA]

He’s good there. But is he better than Bunch when healthy? He’s better physically than Mitchell. But Mitchell is smarter and the defense’s field general (especially without Trent Martin at MLB). I just don’t know who you move (or where to) in order to make room for Whitfield where as Whitfield has the ability to move and succeed.

To be honest our defense was best this year when we had 5 DBs on the field. I just think Whitfield reads plays better and has better instincts from the SS position. Towards the end of the year Williams was playing pretty well too. A lot of the FR got some good reps at DB this year and with most of them coming back, DB should be our deepest quality group on either side of the football.

 

[TULSARISING]

I’m not arguing to whether or not it was right...just that it wa effective at conveying the message intended.

Fair enough, hope you and your family have a happy new year! I'm really hoping the juco guys can step up this year

 

[okie51]

My thinking is to move Flanary to DE to give some size, he looks mobile enough. Robinson and Stevenson look ready in the middle. Take the best JUCO, T. Gipson or one of the freshmen for the other DE.
Look forward to a report on Lamp and Brickers progress and weight gain. One of the two will likely need to play as a back-up. Just don't see enough size unless someone is moved or another JUCO with size is brought in.

 

[jerandlaur]

I don't much care about the knee thing either way. I served in the United States Army in Vietnam. Th First Amendment was already in place then. It was down the list a ways of reason I was there but I strongly support it. Remember, it gives him the right to take a knee. It also gives others the right to condemn it. It cuts both ways.

Which is why I said something about living in a free country.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

 

[mcane]

With the Zach Smith transfer, I think Monty has avoided the hot seat for next year, barring another complete collapse.

 

[HuffyCane]

I am so glad I don't have to tell my wife and kids that my paycheck depends on a 20 year old doing what I tell them and hope he puts it all together 2 years from now.

 

[quincy101]

Because racism, real or perceived, and black protest still play a big part in today's society, it might be informative to read the thoughts of two black men, one of whom I have admired for decades and the other whose brief words have him in trouble with the Columbia U. administration & some students, but whose words make a certain amount of sense for anyone of any color today.

Please go to Crossfire if interested in another black perspective on these so important issues.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

Yes please move all these comments to crossfire... I’m tired of seeing them here where they don’t belong.

 

[TU1NNJ]

Was the elephant in the room the Bama mascot? If not was it an African Elephant or an Asian Elephant? Was a mouse involved? Does the elephant remember the topic? So many unanswered questions before the topic went off the rails.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Sorry K. Hill missed season due to injury. But all I can remember is him being the only one to take a knee during the National Anthem. If he comes back & continues to pull this cheap sh!t, to hell with him. Please criticize this comment till the cows come home,but I could care less about people who diss flag & country & defend those who do.

It's worth remembering that the initial point was, "if he's going to kneel, I don't care if he comes back or recovers from his injury." I can see disagreeing with Hill but wishing injury on him is crazy.

 

[quincy101]

Hey Leon, so you & your pal Chito don't like my posts. OK, fine. But Do Not misrepresent what I said as noted above in quotes. Those aren't my words, nor my hope about a complete recovery. I don't want anyone, theirs or ours, to get hurt-especially season ending.

It must be someone elses quote & you both simply quoted mine by mistake. In which case, no prob. If not, you are both sick puppies to infer that from my original post.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

Saw coach Montgomery at the game last night. Nice to see him out supporting the hoops team with his wife.