Democratic Debate

[lawpoke87]

I would be interested in seeing who they asked. It should be random w/o targeting any party or even registered voters. This is not a question for a likely voter. I bet if you conduct the same poll on Monday it jumps given the new news from today.

I've found the Reuters and Monmouth polls are least likely to be biased in the way questions are asked and thus likely producing the most statistically relevant data. The news outlets and their names have been afflicted by Trump's remarks claiming they are "fake" simply because they don't paint him in a positive light. Their polls suffer from public opinion of the organizations sponsoring the poll and thus you don't always get an accurate response.

Registered Voters. I don't see anyway an ABC / WP poll would be sampled in favor of Trump btw. If you look at the sampling of these recent polls the independents are against impeachment anywhere from 6 to 10 points. Dems and Pubs are split as one would expect...88 to 12 approx. Thus, I would assume those polls showing a greater percent in favor of removal are heavily weighted toward Dems.

 

[aTUfan]

Polls?

Which one was right in 2016?

 

[TUMe]

Agreed, but you must understand that the jury has said it won't be impartial. The idiot running the Senate stated as so on national TV. And show me any trial that would allow members of the jury to collude with the accused on how the evidence is presented, withheld, blocked etc. They are not acting as impartial members of a jury (which they signed an oath in full view of public), they are acting out as protectors of a secret. And the Rs tasked with presenting the defense have already stated their case is what he did wasn't a crime.

The case could be made that McConnell's statement was unwise.

Sometimes the truth hurts. But there is no way there will be 67 votes to remove Trump. McConnell is not the idiot. The idiots are the House Managers. First look at Nadler and Schiff. One said the Senate was on trial. They pissed of Murkowski and Susan Collins, the very type of Senators that they might have had a chance at getting. Then they accused Blackburn of TN of reading during their presentation. She says she was reading about Impeachment history and rules. The other managers are not all that bad, but all are rehashing the allegations from the Impeachment Hearing in the House, which are pretty weak. Schiff claimed he had a clear case, Pelosi said that they needed to rush then killed a month. Nadler reads his comments like he is reading them for the first time and seldom looks up.

Some of the material used by all has been repeated up to seven times. Here is a little hint, Feinstein left an hour and a half early last night. MSNBC thinks Schiff is doing a great job...so he must be.

 

[aTUfan]

looks like the dems used a hollywood script writer

 

[Watu3]

The case could be made that McConnell's statement was unwise.
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The case could also be made that gravity exists. "Unwise" is a very polite euphemism.

As for the Dem's performance, a) Schiff comment's were accurate. Should he lie to suck up to Senators who will violate the oath to be "impartial" they just took before this proceeding? Some Republican Senators were even no shows for parts of the presentation. See McConnell quote. b) what else can Schiff do besides recap what was explored in the House when he is not allowed to present evidence or call witnesses. BTW 2 fingers down the throat for John Bolton's cutesy behavior.

When a group of Republican senators, some of whom were attorneys, were asked if they had ever participated in a trial that did not allow witnesses or evidence to be presented, they sat in silence before changing the subject.

We all know what goes around comes around, and destroying Americans' faith in the integrity of the Senate and Presidency undermines our democracy and makes a joke of the Constitution. The Senate is on trial and so is the American public's right to a functioning democracy if it accepts this behavior as the new standard.

We have all known the die is cast on this proceeding. At this point, Trump and the Whitehouse are solely focused on how he will characterize this proceeding during his campaign.

 

[lawpoke87]

We all know what goes around comes around, and destroying Americans' faith in the integrity of the Senate and Presidency undermines our democracy and makes a joke of the Constitution.

.

You made the exact same argument regarding the scrutiny which was brought upon the FBI and Justice Dept and their rogue actions. “It’s a shameful attack in the credibility of the FBI and JD”. Have you not learned anything?

I’m not against calling witnesses btw. I am against hearsay and conjecture being described as evidence which for the most part is what the House managers have presented as their case. I predicted the Senate would reciprocate what we saw in that House by limited and in some cases excluding witnesses and evidence. You are correct...what goes around comes around. This has been a political proceeding made for TV from the beginning culminating with a party line impeachment vote. Unfortunately, it continues by the Pubs this time in the Senate. It’s no wonder the American public has tuned out.

 

[TUMe]

Sh1t talks but votes walk.

All of our lifes we have heard what is impeachable is what Congress says it is. In their short presentation today the Republicans showed many instances where Schiff manufactured or altered facts and, of course changed meaning from the original.

It is a long way from 47 votes to 67, with Schiff targeting some of the more moderated Republicans, and especially with Nadler insulting the Jury. An impeachable offense is what 67 or more Senators say it is. And to top it off the facts simply aren't there.

 

[aTUfan]

<<<<< Should he lie to suck up to Senators who will violate the oath to be "impartial" they just took before this proceeding?

the house dems were not "impartial"? Hell most have been calling for trumps removal since he won.

<<<<<< Republican senators, some of whom were attorneys, were asked if they had ever participated in a trial that did not allow witnesses or evidence to be presented,

Shiff ran the show in the show in the house and did not allow some witnesses.



---- if it was illegal when subpoenaed witness did not appear before the house hearings, why did they not get into trouble

 

[TUMe]

The case could also be made that gravity exists. "Unwise" is a very polite euphemism.

As for the Dem's performance, a) Schiff comment's were accurate. Should he lie to suck up to Senators who will violate the oath to be "impartial" they just took before this proceeding? Some Republican Senators were even no shows for parts of the presentation. See McConnell quote. b) what else can Schiff do besides recap what was explored in the House when he is not allowed to present evidence or call witnesses. BTW 2 fingers down the throat for John Bolton's cutesy behavior.

When a group of Republican senators, some of whom were attorneys, were asked if they had ever participated in a trial that did not allow witnesses or evidence to be presented, they sat in stunned silence before changing the subject.

We all know what goes around comes around, and destroying Americans' faith in the integrity of the Senate and Presidency undermines our democracy and makes a joke of the Constitution. The Senate is on trial and so is the American public's right to a functioning democracy if it accepts this behavior as the new standard.

We have all known the die is cast on this proceeding. At this point, Trump and the Whitehouse are solely focused on how he will characterize this proceeding during his campaign.

Schiff's quotes were accurate statements chopped, sliced, and diced to leave what he wanted and leave out parts he didn't like.

Those attorneys, with a few exceptions, had never attended a two part trial separated by over a month, on national TV, with the Chief Justice of Supreme Court presiding, where there couldn't be objections, and where the judge had to admonish both side equally at 2 am.

You say the die is cast; I agree but say McConnell was unwise to admit it. Is it more important to lie? We have to keep up the pretense that this is not a party line vote.

Gravity does exist but it varies from almost zero in much of the universe to almost infinite in a black hole. Clearly, most Senators and Representative gravitate to their party. It is just one of those things that is unwise to say.

 

[aTUfan]

Biden vs Sanders

Who won?